Science a GoGo's Home Page Forums General Discussion Climate Change Forum Dr J Hansen 'Freezing Hot'

I have no comment to make upon the following item.
Apart from the fact that the world is experiencing extremes of weather, at some locations.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2008/11/16/do1610.xml

well its winter in the artic but its summer in the antartic...

the increased coolness is due to the melting of the ice on the antartic , every winter should be colder from now on until something happens...every summer should be warmer until something happens... as I said before a sleeping bag will
probably be a great investment this winter.

I believe the so-called tipping point has tipped and is now
in the domino stage , the something that happens will be
volcanic action such as a caldera that will send the earth into
the next ice age ...

maybe the "smart scientist" should look for some sand to hide their heads in.

--- stupid smart people ---

yep...they got paid to lie and decieve.

Warmest October ever ... Not! By Lorne Gunter
http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/story.html?id=965912

When it comes to facts, are some climatologists of the same bent of mind as the big pharma drug pushers?

well ... all of my tomatoes froze last night , along with many
other crops here in the south I expect.

we NORMALY dont get that type of weather until around janurary!

and I WAS in my sleeping bag , brrrrrr.

and this type of weather is just a scratch on the surface of what is in store for us.

I think that the large corporations that are so concerned with us and our health , who obviously arent concerned about us having jobs to pay for all of the products they make overseas
really arent concerned about us !!!
only the profit they can make by producing something to sell us.

and as the norm , like all of the industry we had here in the U.S. it too will be exported to another country where basically slave labor is available , mostly because we americans are so smart that we dont seem to understand that every time we buy a imported product we are destroying the american economy.

this has nothing to do with climate change you might say , well
if you look down deep it does , it has everything to do with climate change , the products that were made here in the U.S. that are now made in china for instance are being produced at a terrible expence to the climate.

where the polution was being controled somewhat here in the U.S. there is no control in other countries.

our buisness men and scientist are traitors to america as far as I am concerned , if we dont catch a grip and invest in industry here in the U.S. where controls can be placed on polutants
in order to reduce the amount of polutants produced in foreign countries then we are a done deal , washed up.

sure it would cost alot of money to re-structure the American Industry back to where it was in the 1940's when it was our industrial might that made it possible to defeat the then axis of evil.

trade tarriffs on all imported goods into the U.S. is one execelent answer that would allow U.S. industry to grow because it would allow for a more price competitive basis for industry to
grip onto.

ie.. a radio made in china that cost the american buyer at sears or wallmart or ANY store you can think of that sells radios made in china in the U.S. or any other product you can find in any store in the U.S. that certainly isnt made in the U.S. , that cost $100.00

slap a 20% tarriff on that radio...

it now cost the american $120.00 ...

in a few years that american can probably quit flipping hamburgers and work building radios.

the added 20% price of the radio could go towards the reduction of polutants and the implementation of robotics to offset production cost.

when you buy the china made radio you save $20.00

when you buy the american made radio you save your childrens jobs , you save the climate , you save america.

No doubt, climate changing is going on all the time, as has happened many times in the past. I have witnessed this over my lifetime--of nearly 80 years. But this is not the same as "global warming", is it?

Paul, a brief comment on your remarks about the economy:

WE NEED A MONETARY SYSTEM WHICH ENCOURAGES TRADING AND THE CREATION OF EMPLOYMENT, AT THE LOCAL LEVEL. THEN THERE WILL BE NO NEED FOR AN UNDERGROUND ECONOMY.
=================================================================
Are you aware that it is not illegal for local communities to create they own complementary community currencies(CCC)? It was done on the island of Guernsey in 1816. Check out the following:
http://goldnews.bullionvault.com/node/2323/print
http://www.michaeljournal.org/guernsey.htm
http://www.prolognet.qc.ca/clyde/Guernsey.html

The use of CCC will not only put more and more local people to work for each other, it will increase the use of locally produced and useful products.

I am not just speaking theoretically. A group of us here, in Markham, ON, are doing it. For those interested, if you have something to trade, we are willing to share this information as to how we are doing it.

After a career of 40 years in geophysical data acquisition, transcription and processing, I find your pronouncements breath-taking. Where do you get this information? I'm curious because in that 40 years, I never knew any of the hundreds of scientists I worked with to ever get paid to lie and deceive. (Assuming that's what you meant by "decieve") About the worst I ever knew about was a few who tried to pad their travel expenses. And I doubt that's unique to geophysicists or any other scientists. I happen to know a welder who got busted for it.

You seem to see things as "them" versus "us". We are all "us". You walk past scientists all the time. Men and women who live in the same subdivision or down the road. Men and women who raise families, attend church regularly, donate to charities, attend PTA and their children's school activities. To take a huge swipe at a segment of our culture that you obviously can't even distinguish accurately is hysterical. (Not the funny connotation but the clinical.) Your causal speculations are over-the-top in ignorance and your prognosis is without the slightest basis in fact. Can you supply some verification that volcanoes are triggered by cold weather, or whatever it is that you believe will cause these "caldera" to bring about another ice age? Can you specify what information gives you the idea that we have reached the "tipping point"?

Warmer summers and colder winters - until "something" happens? My goodness, you've revolutionized geophysics... and all its disciplines.

One would think that as a sagacious prognosticator, you'd take a second or two to click on spell-check. It would lend some credibility to that "something happens" prediction.

Iztaci

I dont have a spell checker , sorry if you were not able to comprehend my writting.

by the way , what did I misspell?

Sorry Paul. I probably shouldn't have been commenting that day. Spelling was not that bad. The real problem was the information you were sharing. It's pretty bad. Just about everything you said was badly mangled. You need to find another source for your scientific information. Some site that's not populated heavily by wackos. SciAm, Edge, Wired, Nova... etc. Stay away from the ones who name themselves after great historical figures or refer to themselves as genius or make claims for great, revolutionary theories.

Try ieSpell or any of the free-download apps out there. Make sure they will work with your browser. Some of them, like the Firefox spellcheck, really suck but there are some good ones available.

Regards

Merry Solstice All....

Iztaci, could you suggest some non-wacko sites?

SciAm, Nova? These are wacko?

What about Nature? or Science?
...or what about Palaeogeography, palaeoclimatology, palaeoecology [ISSN=0031-0182]?

~

samwick;

Suggest sites to someone who believes; "the increased coolness is due to the melting of the ice on the antartic , every winter should be colder from now on until something happens...every summer should be warmer until something happens... "?
Or suggest sites to you?

Are SciAm and Nova wacko? Perhaps I should have used a colon.

Nature and Science? Entry level but probably not for someone who believes "scientists are paid to decieve..."

Palaeogeography, palaeoclimatology, palaeoecology?

How about paleoiconography, paleoaccupunctureology, paleomisanthropism?

Here's one just for you. One of my favorites. Feel free to donate to the foundation. It's a good cause.

http://www.seg.org/SEGportalWEBproject/portals/SEG_Online.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=home

Merry Solstice? How about: Piss on subzero winters?

What? Don't you trust scientific journals?
===

You're complaining about "subzero winters?"
Aren't the winters still shorter and warmer than average?
Unusual cold snaps in weird places is why they call it Global Weirding (or climate change) rather than Global Warming.
===

One of your favorites (that you do trust?) ...SEG?

The Society of Exploration Geophysicists?
Folks whose goal is to get a job exploring for oil?

Well let's see what they say:
===



Well they must know a lot about climate change.

I didn't see anything about climate change on their website.
Do you know if SEG has put out any papers or studies or press releases on the subject of climate change?

~

How about paleoiconography, paleoaccupunctureology, paleomisanthropism?
What? Don't you trust scientific journals?
===
I trust everybody. Sam.

You're complaining about "subzero winters?"
Aren't the winters still shorter and warmer than average?
Unusual cold snaps in weird places is why they call it Global Weirding (or climate change) rather than Global Warming.
===
Why would I care if the winters are shorter or warmer than average when it’s 20 below right now. Would that knowledge warm me up right now?


One of your favorites (that you do trust?) ...SEG?
===
Nah… my favorites are the ones I don’t trust. Did you really need to ask that question?

The Society of Exploration Geophysicists?
Folks whose goal is to get a job exploring for oil?
===
Not a bad guess… I guess, but here’s another one you might try: Folks whose goal it is to get a job… ummm…. say…. Exploring? I guess the meaning is rather cleverly concealed in the name. Here’s a clue: Society of EXPLORATION Geophysicists. Actually, it’s folks who already have a job exploring. We don’t really give a crap what you’re looking for. Cut us a fat check and we’ll explore the hell out of whatever area you want, be it for oil, poodle-poop or di-lithium crystals.

Our product is an image. A map of the subsurface stratigraphy. Exploration geophysicists don’t know squat about oil other than it’s black, sticky and stinks to high heaven, and that some people are willing to crack out some big bucks to find it.. You want to know about oil, ask a petroleum engineer. Want to know where, on the map you bought from the explorationists, there might be an exploitable accumulation of hydrocarbons? Or di-lithium crystals? Cut another fat check and hire an Interpretive Geophysicist. He will draw you an X somewhere on the map and then you cut another fat check for a drilling contract. By this time the explorationists will be long gone and couldn’t care less if you find anything or not. They provided you a map and cashed the check. From that point, it’s your monkey.

Well let's see what they say:
Originally Posted By: SEG.org

http://www.seg.org/SEGportalWEBproject/p...ganizations.htm
===
I don’t see what any of this trivia has to do with anything so I’ll skip it.

Well they must know a lot about climate change.
===
Well why? They know when the weather changes because they are usually working in it. That knowledge is useful in picking out your work clothes. But, the “climate” seldom changes at 20 thousand feet under the Mojave Desert… or the Dead Sea . A geologist might have an interest in climate change because it’s part of their science. If you really want the skinny on climate change, I’d recommend…. Ummmm… say… a Climatological publication?

I didn't see anything about climate change on their website.
===
No? Try the American Quarter Horse Association website. Maybe they’re into climate change. But then, what would I know? I’m just mapper.

Do you know if SEG has put out any papers or studies or press releases on the subject of climate change?
===
Doubt it for now. Maybe about the time the AMA starts putting out papers on top fuel dragsters.
===
Happy New Year.

Iztaci, your link led to a not found error. Can you fix it or find another?

Ameranth Rose;

Yup. I just tried it and it came up not found. But, it worked when I posted it and it obviously worked for samwik. Dunno what happened. Maybe they changed something. I only posted it as a jape while trading satire with samwick. Regardless, here's another link.

http://www.seg.org/SEGportalWEBproject/portals/SEG_Online.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=home

Thanks for the tip.

Regards,

Iztaci

Iztaci

I normaly dont read other forums and normaly I dont ( GET ) what
I write about from anywhere else.

I just think of a situation and try and determine a cause for that situation.

I do use web sites to back up things that I think up however , such as the ice caps melting causing the earth to cool due to depressurization.

and it does occur as magma expands into the depressurized areas under the ice caps.

think about it this way , when magma expands further upwards into the earths crust it heats up.
that heat comes from the magma , the earths magma cools because the magma gave up heat as it expanded due to its lowered pressure.

or think about it this way , if you remove 1 F from 100 F
you have a remaining 99 F , if the 100 F is due to pressure
then you could have removed pressure to accomplish this.

If you dont understand the things I write about then I am sorry
because it is only from people like me that you might hear things like I write about.

I came up with this while trying to find out how the earth under greenland was becomming mushy , and bulgeing up in places.
but I found that it was due most likely to the peforated land itsel that once contained ICE in frozen tributaries that had melted.

these things have been discussed here on this forum in the past
you might want to look up the threads and read them to further your understanding of the way I think and write.

Im not trying to lie to people or decieve them about the things that will happen.


.

Paul;
When I first responded to one of your posts, it was in reaction to statements like “stupid smart people”, “yup. scientists are paid to deceive.” and other inanities. When I realized you were not malicious and in fact quite sincere, I apologized for my tone and resolved not to make fun of you by pointing out your severe mangling of words and sentence structures. I’m not the type that likes to visit Bedlam and poke the loonies with a stick. I do, however like to poke the malevolent bullies with a stick so , occasionally, I make a mistake.

As I said, I apologized for my mistake. That doesn’t mean I will accept your tired, weak and overused excuse that if I disagree with you, it’s because I don’t understand you. What’s so hard to understand about “scientists are paid to deceive”? On a public forum, statements like that are fair game whether you are a loony, malevolent bully or just terribly misinformed.

So… in deference to your apparent sincerity. I will cease to comment on your word usage, spelling and grammar. I will even cease to comment on your fractured understanding of earth science. But, when I see inane statements regarding the evil intentions of scientists, I may not be able to resist a quick riposte. Fair enough?

Happy New Year.

Iztaci

If you are not a stupid smart person then why are you defending them? getting offended?

are you under the belief that ALL people are perfect little angels?

HA !!


--- stupid smart people ---

yep...they got paid to lie and decieve.

Iztaci



all I do is back away from the picture and think...

what would / could cause this?
or
what would / will happen if this continues.

100% backed up by physics !!!

maybe not by the people who know physics but physics itself.

I know that if Im holding a balloon in my hand and if I
press one of my fingers slightly into the balloon , the gas inside the balloon will rise in both pressure and temperature.

if I remove my finger from the balloon the gas pressure and the gas temperature will decrease inside the balloon.

its pure physics...

the entire surface of the balloon will decrease in temperature !!

because of heat transfer alone.


.

OK paul, you're a genius.

Gotta go take care of some things now. Have a good life.