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#28581 - 11/30/08 08:24 PM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Revlgking Offline
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Anyone reading the book, The Third Jesus, by Deepak Chopra?
BTW, DC was raised a Hindu, educated in Catholic schools. He developed a deep respect for all good religion.
----------------------------------------------------------
A MUST READ FOR THOSE WHO INTEND TO BE AT ONE WITH GOD AND BE EMPOWERED TO DO THAT WHICH IS GOOD--PHYSICALLY MENTALLY AND SPIRITUALLY.

In his Introduction, DC tells us that his book is about, "... what I think the New Testament actually means, astonishing things stated in plain words."

He begins his opening chapter, REDEEMING THE REDEEMER, with the short sentence, "Jesus is in trouble." And later he writes, "... a cloud of confusion hangs over the message of Jesus."

This has come about, he says, because there is more than one Jesus; there are three Jesuses. "One is historical" a rabbi (teacher) one, swept away by history, about whom we know next to nothing, especially what he did during the twenty years not mentioned in the Bible.

"Another is the one appropriated by Christianity" the one spoken of in any number of Christian churches, in many different ways; by Bible scholars and theologians.

He goes on,"The third Jesus, the one this book is about, is as yet so unknown that even the most devout Christians don't suspect that he exists. Yet he is the Christ we cannot--and must not--ignore". With emphasis, he writes: Jesus intended to save the world by showing others the path to God-consciousness.

He writes that this, not to diminish the first two Jesuses, but, rather, to bring them into sharper focus. DC points out that his goal is have a direct relationship with God, "that is personal and present", like Jesus had.

No matter where I pick up his book it is very gratifying to find myself saying saying to myself, over and over again: That makes sense to me, no matter what the issue. Here are some of the hot-button ones:
Nature, Society, Relationships, Psychology, Emotions, Behaviour, Biology, Metaphysics.

For me, what he writes about all these and other issues has about it the ring of truth. None of his, what one critic calls his, "provocative insights" provoke me. Obviously we are one the same path to enlightenment--GOD-consciousness


Edited by Revlgking (11/30/08 08:37 PM)

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#28583 - 11/30/08 11:12 PM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Revlgking]
Ellis Offline
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Do you think, Rev, that everyone has his/her own personal perception of Jesus? At least within the Protestant chuches and the community at large that may be true, although arguments about doctrine spoil the message in too many religious centres (and not just Christian ones).

Jesus' teachings are a solid foundation for a good life, and it would not be possible to act in an evil manner if one followed them, and the same is true for the foundation beliefs in Islam, Judaism and others, acknowledging as they do the Golden Rule. Over-interpretation by priests, shamans, rabbis and mullahs is often responsible for the areas which seem to be discriminatory and sometimes downright distasteful, even evil. The terrorists of today are not the first soldiers (or people) to wage war in the name of their god, doing evil acts in the name of their religions.

Good luck with the enlightenment stuff, but on the streets many are still dying for their beliefs. That cannot be right.


Edited by Ellis (11/30/08 11:16 PM)

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#28587 - 12/01/08 04:11 AM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Originally Posted By: Revlgking


For me, what he writes about all these and other issues has about it the ring of truth. None of his, what one critic calls his, "provocative insights" provoke me. Obviously we are one the same path to enlightenment--GOD-consciousness

It is most obvious that all are on a path of enlightenment that are coming to know God.
Differing opinions about what that looks like from belief is what dilutes the essence of the path and creates discomfort within the emotional body that the ego attaches itself to.

When one engages themselves with Teacher/Spirit all that is sacred in the path has to be given up so that the path can dissolve into what is called the "Pathless path" or the state of "being" when the path is no longer, but what is, is God.

The ego is very comfortable reading and listening to what it idealizes in words and opinion, leaving its beliefs and personal opinions intact.
The ego does not realize until the path dissolves into Self that all is the Self. There is no one that one engages or joins with in being on the path. All is but one and the reflections are drawn to the personal experience by the evolving soul.
The Self brings to the surface all that the soul is ready for in its evolution. It is the Self that creates what the ego experiences as both comfort and discomfort, like mindedness and opposition, that which does and doesn't provoke.

It is much more likely that those things that provoke you are going to create the change necessary to expanding awareness than those things that help you remain complacent within the mind that leaves the ego intact with its beliefs and opinion. It is that which provokes you that challenges complacency in belief and opinion so that you can see it differently than you would consistently idealize in your present state as being full of God.

individuals not saturated in fullness of the One idealize Groups that are opinion and belief drawn together, to gain strength in the feeling of togetherness to do battle with those opinions and beliefs that do not meet their opinion and belief. Battle meaning the reaction or conflict that takes place in the arena of belief.
How it (the battle) manifests is both subtle and extreme. From disbelief and close mindedness to the physical expression of war and rage.
Until one comes to know God in all things, ones path is filled with thought provoking ideas that tempt the ego into loosening its grip on opinion and belief.
If there is no contrast the mind cannot be cognizant of its own evolution and is not on a path but steadfast in the illusions of belief, without the ability to hear or see anything but what one has wrapped around the absolute infinite one in finite ideals that are the projections of ones own separate personality.


Originally Posted By: Ellis
.... on the streets many are still dying for their beliefs. That cannot be right.

It cannot last forever but it does serve the evolution of the soul to understand what it means to put your finger into the fire of belief and projection of personal opinion and to try to make that God absolute...

You might or might not enjoy these short videos by Andrew Cohen Rev.

On enlightenment

Conscious participation in Consciousness

If God knocks are you ready..

Ego is a closed loop

AC & DC in discussion..

Threshold of transformation

being and becoming
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#28596 - 12/01/08 04:45 PM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Ellis]
Revlgking Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ellis
Do you think, Rev, that everyone has his/her own personal perception of Jesus?
Of course! The same is true for any concept, including that of gods, God, GOD, whatever.

Quote:
Good luck with the enlightenment stuff...
At This point, along with many others who are taking this GOD-consciousness path, I have had, and am having, a lot of good luck. Have you the answer as to why anyone, but a fool, would choose ignorance over education?

[/quote] ... but on the streets many are still dying for their beliefs... [/quote] Of course! Ignorance-based, or unenlightened, beliefs are deadly! And they will continue to inflict suffering, pain and death until the victims get tired of it and wake up.
Quote:
That [pain, suffering and death] cannot be right.
Of course it isn't right! So let's all wake up, now, and do something about it. What are we waiting for, Christmas?

_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#28597 - 12/01/08 07:09 PM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Originally Posted By: Revlgking

Quote:
That [pain, suffering and death] cannot be right.
Of course it isn't right! So let's all wake up, now, and do something about it. What are we waiting for, Christmas?


Knowing how to wake up and what you would experience being awake and what you would do while being awake is always good conversation, if not simply entertaining.. blush

I think if we reword Ellis' question a bit.. shocked .. whistle....

Do you think, Rev, that everyone has his/her own personal perception of "enlightenment" or "waking up" and upon awakening will still have their own personal opinion about what to do, to stop suffering within the experience of enlightenment? confused


Or what would change in the personality of opinion and belief, that would change what one does or does not, to change the world?

Oh and most importantly...These are not Rhetorical questions. wink
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#28601 - 12/01/08 10:13 PM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Revlgking Offline
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Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
IT SEEMS TO ME THAT ALL THE MODERN GURUS OF CONSCIOUSNESS--and I mean this with respect--including ANDREW COHEN, DEEPAK CHOPRA, ECKHART TOLLE and others--like many others before them--all agree that each and every one of us is personally responsible for who we are, what perceive--that is, take in through the senses--with our minds. We are also responsible for what we choose to perceive and become attentively aware of. Of course we are also responsible for what we do with our perceptions.
------------------------------------------------
MY FIRST EXPERIENCE WITH A GURU WAS GOOD
========================================
Keep in mind that I began reading about what it means to be a fully conscious human being and be able to rise above limiting circumstances since I was in high school in 1944-46. Reading a then popular magazine called POPULAR MECHANICS I saw an add about how to have a better mind and how to be a successful student and career. I persuaded a brother, who was 10 years my senior and had similar interests, to put up the money--he had a job in the mines--to buy a correspondence course called MENTALPHYSICS.

The system was developed by an Edwin John Dingle (1881-1972). He defined his system as a synthesis of all he had learned as a young man in his travels in the Orient, especially Tibet. Dingle began teaching informally in 1927 in New York City. His early classes grew into the Institute of Mentalphysics in 1934.

Mentalphysics is seen as a super yoga. Dingle taught his students a set of what are believed to be universal truths and a system of practice built around pranayama (breathing), diet (vegetarian), exercises, meditation, and a system of working with one's own particular body chemistry ...
http://www.answers.com/topic/mentalphysics

What we learned in this program inspired both of us. It gave me the confidence to rise above some very difficult circumstances, including poverty, and make the effort to get a university education and have a happy career, which I did.

From the course, my brother, who had little formal education--the one, BTW, who made most of my Christmas toys--and I learned: Human beings need not be puppets on the strings of some celestial puppet master (God) or victims of some fate set by the stars, the gods, nature or nurture. We also learned that we had to take personal responsibility for who we are and who will become, now and for all time.

My brother's career? While I was in university he went on to become a skilled welder. He worked in the iron ore mines on http://www.bellisland.net When they closed in 1966, he got a good job as a valued welder with the city of St. John's, for the rest of his life. He lived to be 78, and, surrounded by his family, died happily.


Edited by Revlgking (12/01/08 10:30 PM)
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#28602 - 12/02/08 12:01 AM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
IT SEEMS TO ME THAT ALL THE MODERN GURUS OF CONSCIOUSNESS--and I mean this with respect--including ANDREW COHEN, DEEPAK CHOPRA, ECKHART TOLLE and others--like many others before them--all agree that each and every one of us is personally responsible for who we are, what perceive--that is, take in through the senses--with our minds. We are also responsible for what we choose to perceive and become attentively aware of. Of course we are also responsible for what we do with our perceptions.

They also agree that the ego is a closed loop of mindless interpretation based on illusions of belief and opinion. Therefore leading to the reality that it is not personal opinion and belief that leads to liberation.

Pranayama without the awareness of the absolute is such a misguided attempt to become enlightened. Actually trying to master any of the limbs of yoga without the awareness of the absolute is a waste of time.
If one becomes aware of the absolute the mind develops with all the limbs intact just as a baby does in the womb.
Trying to build the baby one limb at a time becomes futile and ends in the wasting of a lifetime trying to perfect one limb but eventually leaving what has been accomplished in that single lifetime behind to begin all over again in another.
The Science of Yoga is based on the Absolute and the awareness of the absolute. It is from there that all limbs of yoga are perfected, naturally. This is something that was discussed on one of Andrew Cohens dialogues and straight out of Patanjali's Yoga Sutra's written some 5000 years ago.
It is only the beliefs and opinions of Yoga that keep one from knowing what Yoga is, and the results are often labor intensive toward a condition or an experience that is believed to be tantamount to enlightenment that is the result of the same illusions of belief and opinion that creates dogma around the Teachings of Jesus and the reality of God.

Also there are lots of people who read about enlightenment. They read their whole life all about it, think about it, have opinions about it, beliefs about it, think they are on a path and never reach enlightenment.
From not being enlightened one does not know what it means to be enlightened. Anymore than a child knows what it is like to be an adult while being a child.

The post was a nice story about having read a popular science magazine in the 40's with a short blurb regarding your brother making you Xmas toys tho wink .....
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#28785 - 12/11/08 05:45 AM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Revlgking Offline
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Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
ABOUT ONE WHO CHOSE TO OPPOSE EVIL
==================================
Edmund Burke (1729-1797), an Anglo-Irish statesman, author, orator, political theorist, and philosopher. He served for many years in the British House of Commons as a member of the Whig party. Interestingly, though a Whig (Liberal) he is recognized as the father of modern conservatism. He supported the cause of the colonies and was opposed to making war on them.

Recently, I found that he became famous for something he did not write.

In an essay, Thoughts on the Cause of Present Discontents, what he wrote was :
"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied (sic) sacrifice in a contemptible struggle."

Over the years it got changed to this:
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

Perhaps, today, we need to change 'men' to 'people'.

_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#28787 - 12/11/08 08:34 AM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Revlgking]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Revlgking

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied (sic) sacrifice in a contemptible struggle."

Over the years it got changed to this:
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

Perhaps, today, we need to change 'men' to 'people'.



Perhaps man should discover the reality of Good and evil and by engaging in the triumph over the nature of evil (EGO) within ones self, become an example to the defeat of ego (EVIL). Otherwise to become obsessed with the removal of evil only strengthens its force.

Romans 12:21 is preceded by information (Romans 12:1 thru 12:20) regarding the nature of Christ consciousness and Union with God or the Experience of God in awareness within ones Self/self and everything one experiences. And it also covers the effects of Karma or cause and effect. (vengeance is mine sayeth the lord) Evil or wicked action being action of Ego creating repetitive lifetimes of reoccurring experiences based on the limited realization of reality until one discovers the Truth to end the cycle of ignorance.
It (enlightenment) is the very prerequisite to overcoming evil (EGO), and the only way to (As stated in 12:21) to be not of evil but to overcome evil with good.

That would be what Tolle means by being aware of the underlying current of reality, and evil.

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#28789 - 12/11/08 04:31 PM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Anonymous]
Revlgking Offline
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Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Quote:
Perhaps man should discover the reality of Good and evil and by engaging in the triumph over the nature of evil (EGO) within ones self, become an example to the defeat of ego (EVIL). Otherwise to become obsessed with the removal of evil only strengthens its force.
Ok, Anon, why don't you do just that. More and more of us are.
You can begin by not hiding behind your big TT-like EGO you call Anon. Stop SHOULDING on people, and lead by example.

BTW, not once did I suggest in my last post that people be "obsessed with the removal of evil" by the evil means of force.

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#28790 - 12/11/08 05:25 PM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Revlgking]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Ok, Anon, why don't you do just that. More and more of us are.


In what way, and how should that look?

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#28795 - 12/11/08 11:11 PM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Anonymous]
Revlgking Offline
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Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
You are the one who pretends you have a hot line to the idol you call 'God'; you tell us!

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#28797 - 12/11/08 11:43 PM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Revlgking]
Ellis Offline
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Loc: Australia
I was going to use the ignore button again but Anon (TT?) has outsmarted me--- because then I'll have to ignore genuine Anons. Well done!! But AAAAAAHHH!!

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#28798 - 12/12/08 12:21 AM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Ellis]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Posts: 1249
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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
You are the one who pretends you have a hot line to the idol you call 'God'; you tell us!
No, you are the one who stated:
Quote:
Ok, Anon, why don't you do just that. More and more of us are.
You can begin by not hiding behind your big TT-like EGO you call Anon. Stop SHOULDING on people, and lead by example.

You mentioned lead by example: More and more of us are..

What example, who is us, and what is the example to look like other than I should not post as anonymous?

As long as you have decided I am shoulding anyone I'm open to what you are hinting toward in what I should.
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#28799 - 12/12/08 12:21 AM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Revlgking
You are the one who pretends you have a hot line to the idol you call 'God'; you tell us!
No, you are the one who stated:
Quote:
Ok, Anon, why don't you do just that. More and more of us are.
You can begin by not hiding behind your big TT-like EGO you call Anon. Stop SHOULDING on people, and lead by example.

You mentioned lead by example: More and more of us are..

What example, who is us, and what is the example to look like other than I should not post as anonymous?

As long as you have decided I am shoulding anyone I'm open to what you are hinting toward in what I should.

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#28801 - 12/12/08 07:20 AM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Ellis]
Revlgking Offline
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Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Originally Posted By: Ellis
I was going to use the ignore button again but Anon (TT?) has outsmarted me--- because then I'll have to ignore genuine Anons. Well done!! But AAAAAAHHH!!
Ellis, it is obvious that certain genii get bored with their own company and can't stand being alone. Perhaps we have to put up with the fact that we have karmic debt to pay, and suffer them, gladly. Although I am seriously considering retiring from SAGG.

BTW, what does AAAAAAHHH!! mean in Australian?

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#28802 - 12/12/08 08:31 AM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1249
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere


Originally Posted By: Revlgking
I am seriously considering retiring from SAGG.

Before you do, maybe you would for once intelligently answer my questions rather than avoiding them with mindless platitudes to cover the trail of inadequate comprehension, belief and opinion.. wink
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#28803 - 12/12/08 08:33 AM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Ellis, it is obvious that certain genii get bored with their own company and can't stand being alone.

Not at all. A genius is never bored.
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

Perhaps we have to put up with the fact that we have karmic debt to pay, and suffer them, gladly.

That would be an oxymoron, to suffer gladly. It would be interesting if you could see it differently than suffering and actually experience God in something rather than choose to make idle statements to the idea thru opinion and belief.

Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Although I am seriously considering retiring from SAGG.

But you won't.

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#28943 - 12/26/08 11:44 PM Re: Can We, "Overcome EVIL by GOOD." Rom. 12:21, [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
DO NOT RESIST THE EVIL THINGS DONE TO YOU BY OTHERS BY TAKING VIOLENT REVENGE OR RETALIATION--
Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 5:38-39, in principle.
====================================================
The world of Jesus' day, including that of the Jews, was under the law of retaliation--an eye for and eye, etc.--against evildoers, by those who believed they were right.

Judaism, the religion in which Jesus was raised, was based on the belief in an all-powerful and all-knowing god, Jehovah, who promised to lead his chosen people in glorious victories over all the evildoers, including any who refused to accept him as the one true and only God and creator of all creation.

THE NOW MORALITY
================
Even to this day there is the same kind of commonly-accepted morality. It goes like this:

Sure we believe that Jesus is the prince of peace, but only after we win the war, with God's blessing, of course. When someone does us wrong, it is not only okay for us to get angry, but to get even. Generally speaking, most of us still believe that revenge is sweet! Why do you think we fought battles for the "promised land", the Crusades, for the New World, the two world wars, and are still fighting?

To this very day we still fight family feuds, civil wars, and wars between nations. All are carried out on the basis of this kind of morality.

People who refuse to take part in such conflicts are often branded as cowards, wimps and traitors.

Countless stories, plays, operas and films are based on the above kind of morality, and millions flock to watch shows about them week after week.

By the way, how many would line up to see a film in which a John Wayne, a James Bond, or a Clint Eastwood, and-the-like type, rides to meet the bad guys mounted on a donkey and armed only with an olive branch? What if they wore saffron robes, and burned themselves to death in front of a saloon where the bad guys are having a drink?

We want heroes/heroines who--while they, of course, are willing to risk their lives for us--will, eventually, save and deliver us, including themselves, from the evildoers.

We expect even more from our god-like super heroes: Superman, Batman, Spiderman, including their female versions. Yes, I remember Superwoman.

A NEW KIND OF SUPER HERO
========================
BTW, may I suggest a new kind of super hero: Pneuma man, or huma man. He is one who has a pneuma wife. Together, they choose to raise pneuma children and form a pneuma family.

As a family, they have decided to become pneuma conscious--that is, aware of their oneness with the Source, GOD.

As a pneuma family, they agree to make themselves available to all who pray: "Deliver us from evil--a life filled with suffering and pain."

After they listen to the person, or family in need, describe the circumstances of the predicament, what they offer, in the way of help, is this: "We are here to help you awaken to who you are and to the purpose of your life. Are you willing to do this and to take part in the whole process of find the right solution for you?

If there is no expression of willingness to be involved, no help can be given. However, if willingness to participate in the process is offered, the story takes off from there.

================================================

Needless to say, I do not believe in our having to depend on heroes of any kind, including God; or of being heavily involved in hero worship.

When push comes to shove, what is it that we need to do in the overcoming of evil as a personal challenge?

FORGET THE ELEMENT OF STRUGGLE, JUST SURRENDER TO WHAT IS
=========================================================
Most of us think that the only way for anyone to overcome evil involves a big struggle--ones being willing to take part in a long, hard struggle of heroic proportions. To the contrary, it really involves our being willing to give up the struggle. We need to stop agreeing to be participants.

In conversation with myself (EGO) I say something like this: "Stop resisting.
Relax and become an observer;
be aware of your thoughts and emotions;
be present in the now,
even this very moment.
Simply be alert, aware and see.
This will help you awake and arise to a new kind of consciousness--one in which you are no longer subject to any kind of physical, thought and emotional forms.

I remind you:
"You are totally connected with the Source,
the whole, including others from the same source."
==============================================================

In other words, take note of and "observe the self observing the ego and its creation, the body."

In the final analysis,
"We are one with GOD..."

Unitheism? Newtheism? Or even, nowtheism.
In GOD, there is no separation--only new oneness, now.


Edited by Revlgking (12/26/08 11:54 PM)

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