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#28121 - 10/22/08 09:13 PM Psychokinesis... Possible??
Brilliance Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/19/08
Posts: 10
Does anyone have any scientific analyisis or info supporting the existance of psychokinesis ( Inhibiting paranormal abilities ... such as precognition, telekinesis, telpathy, etc). If u have any examples of any occurances plz share. thanx

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#28130 - 10/23/08 06:11 AM Re: Psychokinesis... Possible?? [Re: Brilliance]
redewenur Offline
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Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 1840
Those who have not opened a box may reasonably be sceptical about the contents. Some will blindly, and unreasonably, insist that there's nothing inside. If, however, you've opened the box and seen what's inside, it may not be something that you feel any need to argue about.

I claim to have experienced a very detailed precognitive dream. Some will claim that I'm talking nonsense. Others, of a respectably scientific mind, will be sceptical.

As far as I know, there is no reliable experimental support for such phenomena.
_________________________
"Time is what prevents everything from happening at once" - John Wheeler

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#28131 - 10/23/08 12:17 PM Re: Psychokinesis... Possible?? [Re: redewenur]
Zephir Offline
Superstar

Registered: 07/01/08
Posts: 498
By Aether Wave Theory these phenomena are really possible and the the human brain can be considered as a aether foam simulator. This is because just the 1D network composed of strings enables strictly causual energy spreading as a limite case of density fluctuations inside of chaotic environment. Therefore the neural network is based on just 1D network of synapses.

The system of 1D network behavior of foam, which means, every energy wave makes the system more dense temporarily and it spreads like less or more dense blob (wave packet) through foamy environment (the soap foam gets more dense during shaking). By AWT this simple mechanism results into particle-wave duality, mass/energy equivalence and all quantum mechanics phenomena.

http://superstruny.aspweb.cz/images/fyzika/aether/dynamic_foam.gif

The idea, the neural network is behaving like quantum system is not very new, it was ad-hoced by Pribram and elaborated by Sir Penrose later. It basically means, electrochemical waves can circulate through neural network like quantum wave and it can exists here like mechanical objects, which can even exhibit an inertial action at the distance. Albeit this idea is still quite speculative, it fits perfectly many paranormal phenomena like telepathy, telekinesis, etc. But we know about some stable brain wave already, as they realize a internal clock for time interval estimation for us.

At the moment, the quantum character of brain waves will be confirmed, then the hiearchical structure is provided authomatically, because the dense wave packets in the foam can behave like independent system of particles, which can make another generation of foamy fluctuations and more complex nested structures by their true nature. By another words, this simple model can explain the hiearchical structure of human conciousness by the same way, like hiarchical structure of observable reality. We can say, the quantum foam forming the vacuum is behaving like neural network - and vice-versa.

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#28132 - 10/23/08 12:23 PM Re: Psychokinesis... Possible?? [Re: Zephir]
Zephir Offline
Superstar

Registered: 07/01/08
Posts: 498
The basic concept in brain understanding from AWT perspective is, the electric signals are behaving like density fluctuations inside of particle gas, being formed by gradients of electrochemical ions concentration (the calcium ions in particular). These gradients can propagate by large speed along synapses of neuron cells like inertial waves along surfaces of foam. And they're making it less or more conductive (i.e. "dense") by the same way, like the propagation of waves makes the soap foam more dense during shaking.

Here are three or four mechanisms, how to achieve the dynamic density changes inside of neural network, and they're all based on the concept of memory. If we try to simplify this concept, the neural cells are getting "tired" when serving for propagation of many electrochemical waves in single place, so they increase the density of synapses at this place correspondingly to achieve the most effective energy spreading. The resulting dense place (blob) fixes the route of most effective information spreading into hardwired nodes, which can serve as channels for preferential spreading of electrochemical waves in the future. Such activity occurs in sleep only, when the positive feedback function of neurons is suppressed, or it would lead into neurosis. By such way, the neurons are learning the most successful paradigms of energy spreading, so they're not required to develop them further again and again. The motion of electrochemical waves inside of learned neural network appears something like this by my assumption, it means every wave of electrochemical activity involves many hundreds of neural synapses:

http://superstruny.aspweb.cz/images/fyzika/aether/Aether_Foam.gif

This concept of quantum neural networks has a good meaning with respect to Aether Wave Theory, because the waves of electrochemical activity are behaving like density fluctuations of foam inside of dense particle gas. But heres a difference, because the Penrose considered, the quantum waves are smaller the neurons, being restricted into microtubules by real quantum mechanics effects, while by my opinion they could be much larger then single neural cells. This has an interesting consequence in explanation of many psychic phenomena, like telekinesis and telepathy in particular, because such waves of large amount of collectively moving ions can have a tangible electromechanical effects at the distance on the background of Aharamov-Bohm effect and gravitomagnetic interaction. I can try to explain this concept later in more detail.

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#28133 - 10/23/08 12:37 PM Re: Psychokinesis... Possible?? [Re: Zephir]
Zephir Offline
Superstar

Registered: 07/01/08
Posts: 498
The AWT mechanism of telekinetic manipulation by human brain corresponds the formation of scalar waves, which were revealed by Nicola Tesla reportedly.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/259163/Tesla-Scalar-waves

They can be generated by caduceus bifiliar coil, reportedly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bifilar_coil

The main principle is, every light wave or photon makes the vacuum foam less or more dense, event though it's balanced by wave of opposite polarity or phase. Therefore the human brain can be surrounded by zones of higher vacuum density, even though the electromagnetic waves emanated by individual neurons are mutually compensated at distance, so they form just a subtle EEG waves at the surface of head. These zones can exhibit a tangible mechanical effects to surrounding solid objects at the distance. They can even induce analogous waves in another brain (a telepathy). This mechanism - when confirmed - would give a physical meaning even to human soul concept, because it could behave as a dense blob, which can move independently to human brain and it can survive its death in certain extent.

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#28134 - 10/23/08 12:50 PM there is no reliable experimental support [Re: Zephir]
Zephir Offline
Superstar

Registered: 07/01/08
Posts: 498
Here's no reliable experimental support for string theory as well - while this theory is maintained by thousands of most brilliant brains over the world.

So everything is just a question of priorities.

The main problem in telekinesis research is the lack of theory, which could describe these phenomena by way, which is compatible with mainstream science thinking. We should hope, the latest quantum mechanics experiments (Aharamov-Bohm effect and superluminal entanglement observations) can improve the interests of mainstream physicists about this field in future.

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#28140 - 10/24/08 03:07 AM Re: there is no reliable experimental support [Re: Zephir]
Ellis Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
Zephir wrote-Here's no reliable experimental support for string theory as well - while this theory is maintained by thousands of most brilliant brains over the world.

Many theories have been maintained by the most brilliant minds of their generation only to be proven incorrect later. While such theories may be influential, important or even derided, that treatment does not, in itself, constitute proof that the theory is true.

Whilst it may in theory be possible, for most of us telekinesis etc will remain merely a suggestion until we see the pencil hopping across the table with no visible outside help!

PS Rede--I would put dreams in a different category, as in a precognitive dream the mind is, whilst asleep, considering all the possibilities and conclusions, one of which may be the later recognised event. It's a matter of deduction from known (even if unrecognised,) facts, whereas making a solid object move by somehow thoughts (?) or something (?), is a totally different achievement.

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#28144 - 10/24/08 04:21 PM until we see the pencil hopping across [Re: Ellis]
Zephir Offline
Superstar

Registered: 07/01/08
Posts: 498
Here's a lotta examples of telepathy on the web, for example YouTube.

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#28153 - 10/24/08 11:24 PM Re: until we see the pencil hopping across [Re: Zephir]
Ellis Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
Ah yes! How could I forget the university of YouTube! or possibly Uri Geller!

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#28155 - 10/25/08 03:00 AM Re: there is no reliable experimental support [Re: Ellis]
redewenur Offline
Megastar

Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 1840
Originally Posted By: Ellis
PS Rede--I would put dreams in a different category, as in a precognitive dream the mind is, whilst asleep, considering all the possibilities and conclusions, one of which may be the later recognised event. It's a matter of deduction from known (even if unrecognised,) facts, whereas making a solid object move by somehow thoughts (?) or something (?), is a totally different achievement.

Yes, I respect your scepticism and your reasoning. You could be correct. However, the credibility gap remains either way. If, indeed, my particular 'precognitive dream' was a conclusion arrived at after "considering all the possibilities" - or in other words, a probablistic prediction - then it speaks of a truly astonishing power of the human mind light years beyond that with which we are familiar in day-to-day life.
_________________________
"Time is what prevents everything from happening at once" - John Wheeler

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#28157 - 10/25/08 05:26 AM Re: there is no reliable experimental support [Re: redewenur]
Ellis Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
Rede wrote:
....then it speaks of a truly astonishing power of the human mind light years beyond that with which we are familiar in day-to-day life.

Maybe in day to day life we use very little of the available brain power. I am not suggesting anything supernatural, just that whilst some of us are able to construct (for eg) amazing stories from nowhere, others may use that same faculty of imagination and call it precognition and/or prophesy. Many authors speak of their novels' plots coming to them as dreams, or visions. Sometimes they even state that they do not know the ending when they start a book. I am suggesting that the same type of creativity may be what causes some of us, in sleep, to construct plausible outcomes to events and happenings which later actually happen. If that is a 'probablistic' (had to look it up) prediction, is that a problem?

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#28166 - 10/26/08 01:52 AM Re: there is no reliable experimental support [Re: Ellis]
redewenur Offline
Megastar

Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 1840
Ellis
I understand your viewpoint, and I don't oppose it in principle. It may be applicable to many cases. However (there has to be a 'however') in the instance I have in mind there were, between the time of the dream and the real event, amid the chaos of a myriad phenomena, a number of unforeseeable major events beyond individual control that lead to a completely unexpected outcome. While I'm not devoted to the idea of precognition, assuming it may have some yet-to-be-discovered scientific basis, the extreme complexity and volume of information required to account for such a prediction makes your theory no more plausible. I don't rule it out, but I fail to see how any form of mental analysis could produce such predictive power. There are too many unknown factors - 'unknown' by any currently understood means, that is.
_________________________
"Time is what prevents everything from happening at once" - John Wheeler

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#28167 - 10/26/08 04:57 AM Re: there is no reliable experimental support [Re: redewenur]
Ellis Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
rede- I fully agree with you regarding the possibilty of predictive dreams. I think that what will be found to be the basis is that our memories and deductions are unconsciously happening and gathering information whether we like it or not. I too, like many others, have had such things happen. I used to have a repeating dream that was referred to in our family as 'mum's aeroplane dream', and yes, I used to dream that I had dropped of my kids to play sport(!) and was walking up a grassy hill to the top when I would see an noisy aeroplane approaching the city in the distance at a slowish speed, deliberately on target to crash. I would then yell loudly to the pilot to tell him to stop --- and that is when the entire family would wake up as I was always quite upset and noisy! I do NOT think I predicted the Sept 11 crash, but I do feel that if I was scared or apprehensive about something I may have dreamed about something I am really frightened of, and have no control over. And I hate flying! I no longer dream it-- perhaps real life scared it away!

The brain is very unpredictable. I spent a lot of my life teaching children with disabilities, including Asberger's Syndrome and Autism disorders, who have splinter skills that are vastly superior to 'normal' parameters. I have also worked with blind children who achieved feats of sensory deduction that seemed almost paranormal. I think the brain's capacity has not nearly been measured, and we have a very long to way go before we can say we understand its workings.

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#28826 - 12/18/08 05:34 AM Re: there is no reliable experimental support [Re: Ellis]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Yes, Ellis, I agree with much of what you say about what a wonderful instrument the brain is, and "its workings".

About Telepathy. The communicating of one mind/brain with another: This just happened to me within the last twenty-some hours.

About twenty eight hours ago, here in the Toronto area, it began to snow--the wet and soggy kind, and hard to shovel. By midnight, about six centimeters had accumulated--the first really heavy fall so far this December. It was forecast that about twelve centimeters or more would be on the ground in the morning. I have a long and wide driveway and, at 78, I did not relish the thought of having to push that much snow out of the way.

On awakening, I looked out and there it was. I said to my wife: "I will go out and clear the walkway. I know that some of the neighbours do have a snow removal service. If I see a snow removal rig go by I will send a mental telepathy message and see if I can get the attention of the driver. Sure enough I saw one working just a few doors from me. I sent out my thought: If you help me, I will be glad to pay for it and/or be of help to you.

It only took me a few minutes to clear my walk. Just when I finished, the snow removal rig came down the road and drove right up to my driveway. I didn't even have to wave at the driver of the rig to come in. Without even asking me, he began to remove the snow as, with pleasure, I watched.

When he finished, I approached his rig, spoke to him, and offered to pay the going rate for the job. To my surprised he said: "No charge, sir. Something told me to help you out. My Christmas gift to an elderly stranger. Something told me I needed to meet you."

We then had a good chat, about several things, including the political economy, for the next fifteen minutes, or more.

Then I happened to mention to him that I had run for office and I told him of my interest in promoting the barter economy--which I write about, here, in the thread on money. I said, "For example, if you know of anyone who is addicted to tobacco and would like to stop, I do counseling for addictions, including hypnotherapy (which I call pneumatherapy). I can even do it over the phone. I will gladly do it, for anyone, as my way of repaying you. Perhaps you don't smoke."

He looked at me, showed me his pack of cigs and said, "I sure do some, and I would like to stop. I just might take you up on your offer."

Coincidence? I have had this kind of thing happen, too often--and I am sure, so have others--just to call it coincidence.

BTW, those of you who have read my posts know that I have training in psychology and counseling, which I respect in its right place. But telepathy, IMO, is beyond the psyche (the mind/brain as a physical, or somatic, instrument). It has more to do with the pneuma (the non somatic spirit) and comes under the category of pneumatology (Check in Wikipedia)--the study of the spirit, of which the psyche ought to be a servant.



Edited by Revlgking (12/18/08 05:42 AM)
Edit Reason: alway needs it.
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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