Welcome to
Science a GoGo's
Discussion Forums
Please keep your postings on-topic or they will be moved to a galaxy far, far away.
Your use of this forum indicates your agreement to our terms of use.
So that we remain spam-free, please note that all posts by new users are moderated.


The Forums
General Science Talk        Not-Quite-Science        Climate Change Discussion        Physics Forum        Science Fiction

Who's Online
0 registered (), 225 Guests and 0 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Posts
Is there anybody out there?
by True
11/20/19 02:22 AM
Top Posters (30 Days)
True 1
Page 11 of 13 < 1 2 ... 9 10 11 12 13 >
Topic Options
#28018 - 10/11/08 02:34 AM Re: Philosophy of religion: Yours, MIne and Ours.. [Re: Anonymous]
Tutor Turtle Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1249
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
Originally Posted By: Anonymous
Can you control your natural reaction to disregard "new knowledge" long enough to consider and comment on the idea of establishing a common point of understanding amongst mankind.

peace & Love

That common point is not new, it is as old as time itself. People come up with new ways to make it new through their personal experiences and labels.

When you take the personal out, it becomes universal
And what is true for one is true for all in the universal.
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





Top
.
#28019 - 10/11/08 02:49 AM Re: Philosophy of religion: Yours, MIne and Ours.. [Re: Anonymous]
Ellis Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
There is, and probably never will be, such a thing as a 'common point of understanding amongst mankind'. As we each approach the truth through our own understanding the best we can achieve is an acknowledgement of our differences as well as our agreements. What we need to do is to learn to work within those parameters, allowing for difference and limitations of the individual. We have to aim not for victory for our point of view, but for consensus and cooperation in order to progress.

Is there any such thing as absolute truth?--- Of course there is. I can prove a scientific fact such as the world is a round ball. However I can never prove that there is no god. I don't think there is--- but I cannot prove that. There is a difference between proof and belief. We are all entitled to believe what we may, but it is necessary sometimes to allow other ideas to be expressed, considered and adopted. Just as we cannot claim our own spiritual ideas to be "correct" we cannot state that other people's beliefs are "wrong". To do so would surely be the epitome of ego driven thinking.

Top
#28020 - 10/11/08 03:00 AM Re: Philosophy of religion: Yours, MIne and Ours.. [Re: Ellis]
Tutor Turtle Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1249
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
Originally Posted By: Ellis
There is, and probably never will be, such a thing as a 'common point of understanding amongst mankind'.

OF course there is, it exists in the realm that is impervious to belief.
Originally Posted By: Ellis
As we each approach the truth through our own understanding the best we can achieve is an acknowledgement of our differences as well as our agreements.

That would be within the beliefs that are created on the way to truth. Until one reaches the Truth one can only speculate within their ideals and conflicts of interest
Originally Posted By: Ellis
What we need to do is to learn to work within those parameters, allowing for difference and limitations of the individual. We have to aim not for victory for our point of view, but for consensus and cooperation in order to progress.
What will eventually happen in the expansion of consciousness is to rise above these parameters of personality and egoic idealization, that will always be searching for a way to get along with those in different stages of intellectual and spiritual growth.
Originally Posted By: Ellis

Is there any such thing as absolute truth?--- Of course there is. I can prove a scientific fact such as the world is a round ball. However I can never prove that there is no god. I don't think there is--- but I cannot prove that. There is a difference between proof and belief. We are all entitled to believe what we may, but it is necessary sometimes to allow other ideas to be expressed, considered and adopted. Just as we cannot claim our own spiritual ideas to be "correct" we cannot state that other people's beliefs are "wrong". To do so would surely be the epitome of ego driven thinking.

Right and wrong live in the realm of judgment. God does not make such judgments against growing children, but just as an adult knows the difference in being a child or an adult, so does consciousness recognize the difference between relative truths and absolute truth.


1 Cor 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





Top
#28025 - 10/11/08 05:50 PM Re: Philosophy of religion: Yours, MIne and Ours.. [Re: Revlgking]
lehe Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/01/08
Posts: 12
Loc: New Mexico
Revlking,
Perfectly put.
_________________________
Toggleit

Top
#28026 - 10/11/08 05:58 PM Re: Philosophy of religion: Yours, MIne and Ours.. [Re: Anonymous]
lehe Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/01/08
Posts: 12
Loc: New Mexico
Anonymous, I understand exactly why you ask such a question. The blocks at this junture are strong. You've come a long way. You will be pleased when you breakthrough.
_________________________
Toggleit

Top
#28027 - 10/11/08 07:55 PM Re: Philosophy of religion: Yours, MIne and Ours.. [Re: lehe]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Originally Posted By: lehe
Revlking, Perfectly put.
lehe, I presume you are referring to post #27996 - Thu Oct 09 2008 02:47 PM
Where I spoke of Tolle and his reference to the urgent "task of the transformation of human consciousness".

And what an urgent task it is. Currently, by means of the Family Life Foundation, a small group of us is working with the help of a computer technologist who has come up with a unique system of community building using the Internet.

The goal is the bringing together of any number of positive people who are sincerely interested in having transformed consciousnesses and are willing help in the building of communities of helpful people--locally and otherwise.

Top
#28028 - 10/11/08 09:19 PM Re: Philosophy of religion: Yours, MIne and Ours.. [Re: Revlgking]
lehe Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/01/08
Posts: 12
Loc: New Mexico
Relvlgking, I would love to be a part of such a group. I am working on my own similar project here in New Mexico. I will look up the foundation you mention. The more the merrier, I always say!
_________________________
Toggleit

Top
#28045 - 10/14/08 01:12 AM Re: Philosophy of religion: Yours, MIne and Ours.. [Re: lehe]
Tutor Turtle Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1249
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
I. SOLVING THE PROBLEMS
OF THE WORLD
To change your world, change yourself.
To help this world be a better place must certainly be every thinking human’s desire. Our planet is
faced with innumerable problems, physical and spiritual; the attempts of our leaders to solve them seem
neither wholly pathetic nor wholly laudable. They are doing the best they can; even the apparent
exceptions to this rule act positively, given the definitions of reality to which they ascribe. But, as
courageous as the noble attempts to solve Earth’s problems have always been, and as successful as
some of the solutions have proved to be in some limited areas of concern, still the over-all depth, breadth
and intensity of the difficulties facing the world have only increased over the centuries until the existence
of the biosphere and of humanity itself is today swinging in the balance.
It was disastrous for the Carthaginians when the Romans burned Carthage to the ground; it was
certainly unfortunate for the Israelites when Rome razed Jerusalem and sent her people into captivity; it
was devastating to the Native Americans when the Europeans moved westward; but today we seem
determined to destroy the entire world.
It was tragic when the Sahara swallowed the fertile fields of Africa due to human incompetence,
but today we lose a football size field of rain forest every second; every year, an area of rain forest the size
of Pennsylvania is burned and converted to pasture, losing forever not only the wondrous potential
pharmaceuticals growing there in their natural state but simultaneously cutting the throat of the largest
oxygen- producing organism in the world.
We have all enjoyed the benefits of aerosols and cars and air conditioners, but the ozone
deteriorates. It seems that soon being outside anywhere at any time of day will be deadly.
It was a great accomplishment when our miracle drugs dramatically reduced infant deaths, but
today we have well over three hundred million people eeking out lives of barest subsistence without
meeting the needs of minimal nutrition. Three hundred million of our fellow humans are malnourished or
starving today. What did you have for dinner?
Any solution designed to solve any of these problems or the myriad of others facing humanity is
certainly good and should be encouraged. But it is not now and will never be sufficient to address the
problems of the human condition one at a time, or even in groups of related problems at one time. We can
link acid rain, ozone depletion, the ruining of our rivers, lakes and seas with excesses in our technologies,
but the basic issue will remain untouched by any such approach. The reason for this is simple. We can
attempt to solve a vast number of problems, but the solutions will always cause more problems as long as
we do not know the result of our actions. With limited minds, obstacles will continue to mutate and evolve
as do bacteria in response to our latest miracle drug. A host of new and worse difficulties will continue to
arise until the day we change the fundamental error of our thinking.
There is a field next to this house where I’m writing these words. A year ago it was a pasture where
a dozen horses grazed. Today it holds thirty houses; another fifteen are scheduled for completion within
the next six months. From the standpoint of the silent field, this must feel exactly like a cancerous growth.
What utility do these houses have in relation to the land? Where once there was a mutual harmony of
organic life, now there is concrete, asphalt, chaos, death. And yet the new residents living here are
grateful for this relatively cheap housing: for many of these young families, this is their first escape from
apartments into the grand experiment of private ownership. And in another thirty years, this will doubtless
be a quiet, even a sedate neighborhood, with tall, stately oaks and maples lining the streets.
I remember climbing up a huge old stump -- twice as high as I was tall, four times as wide as it was
high -- down the hill from the house where I grew up in. It was in the middle of a forty acre tract
which we called, “The Swamp.” This ground was not particularly swampy, at least not much more than
anything of Seattle, but calling it The Swamp added a certain dark mystery to young children. Fifty years
Solving the Problems of the World
before I entered The Swamp in awe and wonder, there was a magnificent stand of Western red cedar and
Douglas fir there. A hundred years before that, the evergreens were so thick and tall all over Western
Washington that anyone magically transported there from today would think they had wandered into the
most wonderful park on the Earth. What a tragedy from the perspective of the Native Americans! But our
small tragedy when The Swamp was razed and turned into the sterile asphalt of a parking lot and the
plastic and steel of a shopping mall was no less tangible and painful for our childish sensibilities. And yet
the close proximity of the nascent stores was viewed as a Godsend by several senior citizens of our
neighborhood.
I remember looking for an ancestral home with my family when I was nine. We could not find it -- it
was gone, a memory now only, replaced by one more freeway off-ramp. This in the middle of a wheat field! A serious loss, surely -- but those who use the freeway every day to hurry home to their families might disagree.
What exactly is a problem? A great evil from one perspective may prove a blessing from another.
But even if we can find some problems that everyone can agree are definitely problems, it does not follow
that everyone will agree on the solutions. And even if everyone everywhere were to agree on the problems
and the solutions, there is no guarantee that the solutions would work. Even if everyone everywhere
agreed beyond the slightest doubt that the Sun circled the Earth, our planet and our neighbor star would
not be likely to deviate from their orbits. Reality is not democratic! Regardless of how much we would like
everyone to believe in our cherished dream worlds, it doesn’t make them real for anyone other than our
own selves.
Don’t assume I am implying that it is wrong to attempt to solve any and all problems. Everything
that can be done should certainly be done. What I am saying is that our solutions have never worked well
because we as a species have never addressed the one fundamental problem that is causing all the
others. How do we transform our actions so that they have only life-supporting effects?
Until this basic issue is addressed, it will never be possible to solve the myriad difficulties of the
human condition. How can this be done?
ONE IDEAL PERSON
If we look into diversity, we see only diversity. When we look outward through our eyes, we see an
extremely complex and variegated world. Trying to change this outer world is difficult or impossible by
addressing any situation, one at a time. That is why corporations succeed -- a hundred individuals can do
a great deal more than one alone. Even if that one is far more efficient and talented than any other of the
hundred, it is physically impossible for any one person to do a hundred tasks at once.
Thus are hierarchies structured; thus are civilizations created.
The individual employee may have little or no understanding of how his or her part is contributing
to the whole; the private citizen may lack any comprehension of the nature or orderliness of his or her
society, but this does not inhibit the effectiveness of the whole. How does an organization function
smoothly, be it a cow, a company or a country? Each member of the hierarchical structure of the
organization must function well. The health of the organization is determined by the health of its individual
members. This is a universal law, be our conversation about organs and their constituent cells or
civilizations and their constituent citizens. Who can save a heart if its cells are dying? Who can save a
country if its citizens are degenerating?
This may all appear much too simplistic, much too obvious, and yet wholly impossible to change.
“Of course,” you may say, “your point is clear. If we want to solve the world’s problems, we must solve the
problems of the individual. There is nothing novel there. Confucius in ancient China said much the same
thing. ‘When the father is a father and the son a son, when the brother is a brother and the sister a sister,
when the husband is a husband and the wife a wife, then the family is set in order. When the family is set
in order, the village is set in order. When the village is set in order, the nation is set in order. When the
nation is set in order, the world is set in order.’ This is all too obvious. If I am healthy in my body, my mind
and my spirit, then, you imply, my society will be healthy. If I don’t contribute to the world’s problems, then
the world’s problems will cease. But what you offer is just too simplistic. Even if I act perfectly, what of my
brother George? Or my husband Sam? What about my kids? Or Fred down the street? Or the big corporations?
Or the banks and savings and loans? Or the military-industrial complex? Or terrorists? Or whoever
else happens to be on my ‘bad’ list at the moment? They’ll still be damaging the world, just as before. Of
what value, then, your solution? It is impossible to apply this thinking globally.”
Indeed, I must agree with you. The thought of changing everyone on the planet to become ideal, a
person who does nothing to damage either himself/herself or the world in any way, even the slightest, is a
concept that sounds too difficult to achieve in any reasonable amount of time. Even identifying which of
our daily actions are in fact damaging to ourselves or others is a matter for limitless controversy. The
simplest choice presented to each of us at most grocery store check-out counters makes the insoluble
riddles of antiquity seem like child’s play. “Paper or plastic,” the clerk asks us sweetly. What do we reply?
Kill a tree or use a non-renewable, non-biodegradable resource? Which do you choose? Does it matter
to yourself or to your world? Is it even worth considering, or is it a momentary and essentially pointless
diversion?
The root difficulty with the typical waking state of consciousness is that it is impossible to know
anything with certainty. It is not now nor will it ever be possible to know all the effects of an action -- of any
action, even the most basic. So why not live a life of compromise? Everyone sacrifices integrity on the
altar of convenience. Why be any different?
This is the issue that has led many of our philosophers to conclude that there is no Absolute
standard of morality or action. This dilemma has caused many others never to question but to let other
“authority” figures dictate their actions and beliefs. Without an Absolute standard, such leaders may or
may not have anything worthwhile to say; but many of them have at least demonstrated a certain skill in
convincing others to listen to them!
It may seem impossible to change everyone in the world. Fortunately, that is not your
responsibility. It is not your responsibility to change your countrymen, not your neighbors, not your friends,
not even your own family. You have the responsibility to change just one person in the entire Universe!
Do you know who this all-important person is? Do you know who has created and maintains your private
Universe? The good news and the terrible news is exactly the same -- it is you. The one controller of your
life and fate is you, no one other than you. You have made it exactly as you willed. Perhaps your choices
were unconscious until today, perhaps you did not know any better before. But those days are over now.
Since you have done it, you can do it over in any way you choose.
There may be others working to help everyone else change, but that need not be your concern.
You don’t have to see all the plan; you don’t have to understand its whole operation. You don’t even have
to know exactly how your part fits into the whole. It isn’t necessary! All you have to do is live your own part
perfectly and your world will transform around you. That is guaranteed, absolutely guaranteed. If the light
within you is not dark, the shadows will fly from your world.
How impossible a task, saving the world. How possible a task, saving yourself. Cleanse your own
heart and the world’s heart will be cleansed.
The waking state perception of the Universe is completely reversed, upside-down. In the waking
state, we commonly think that our effect is greater when we act outwardly; we think that our actions are
stronger than our words and our words are stronger than our thoughts. Therefore, for example, we do not
speak our resentment but hold it inside, festering, until it erupts in attacks far greater than the original
action we did not take, or until it kills us. This way of living is backwards, it is destructive, it cures nothing
and complicates everything.
One human’s thoughts can change a world. To be healed, the world does need one Ideal Person.
This person has already been born, this person has a name and a personal history. The birthdate of this
person is yours, the personal history is yours, this person’s name is yours. This Ideal Person is you.
We affect more than we can possibly know. With every mood, every thought, every word, every
gesture, we change our lives and our Universe.
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





Top
#28046 - 10/14/08 03:16 AM Re: Philosophy of religion: Yours, MIne and Ours.. [Re: lehe]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Quote:
Relvlgking, I would love to be a part of such a group. I am working on my own similar project here in New Mexico. I will look up the foundation you mention. The more the merrier, I always say!
lehe, I am sure that you are aware that your very desire to be part of the concept of collaborative and creative community building (CCCB) makes you a part of the process, automatically. Now, let us agree to work on ways and means of getting this project on the road.


Top
#28050 - 10/14/08 05:51 PM Re: Philosophy of religion: Yours, MIne and Ours.. [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1249
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
I am sure that you are aware that your very desire to be part of the concept of collaborative and creative community building (CCCB) makes you a part of the process, automatically.

There are almost 7 billion people who desire to be part of a collaborative and creative community building and they ARE part of the process.
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Now, let us agree to work on ways and means of getting this project on the road.

Now, we are just talking politics rather than true spirituality.
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





Top
#28051 - 10/14/08 06:58 PM Re: Philosophy of religion: Yours, MIne and Ours.. [Re: Tutor Turtle]
lehe Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/01/08
Posts: 12
Loc: New Mexico
revelgking, are you speaking about a specific project or are you generalizing about any project designed to bring others together for a higher good?

TT, it sounds like we are all on a similar if not same page.
your words,

" Therefore, for example, we do not
speak our resentment but hold it inside, festering, until it erupts in attacks far greater than the original
action we did not take, or until it kills us. This way of living is backwards, it is destructive, it cures nothing"

are so true to everything I exerience personally and clinically. We humans are finding new and amazing functions of "festering emotions", functions that transcend the usual toxic expression or suppression, niether of which is wholly transformational by themselves.

All true healing methods intercept and transform the toxicity characteristic of emotions in one way or another, and all effective healing methods require siccinct mental surrender of our usual fearful control grip. The differences in the healing methods is only the means by which they convince others to momentarily surrender that control and let the transformation take place. I find that this is where all differences are the same.
_________________________
Toggleit

Top
#28053 - 10/14/08 10:21 PM Re: Philosophy of religion: Yours, MIne and Ours.. [Re: lehe]
Tutor Turtle Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1249
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
Originally Posted By: lehe


All true healing methods intercept and transform the toxicity characteristic of emotions in one way or another, and all effective healing methods require siccinct mental surrender of our usual fearful control grip. The differences in the healing methods is only the means by which they convince others to momentarily surrender that control and let the transformation take place. I find that this is where all differences are the same.

In trying to surrender anything without something greater to turn towards there will always remain the difficulty that arises in the differences of opinion.
If the greater experience of Self is universal so that it resonates equally within each individual there can be not only the experience of unity but the awareness of the underlying principle which lives regardless of the personal experience.
It is only in that absolute which underlies the personal that everything is ONE, without any qualities of measure that the ego seeks so desperately to make its system of self(Ego)measure work.

If one lives in a room that is dark and full of shadows to try and force the mind to give up the shadows without knowing anything but shadows only stresses the mind and body. If you turn on the light and the shadows no longer exist the mind does not struggle in and amongst the self evident truth that exists in the clear vision of reality.

Transformation is simple enough if one has the tools to take the mind inward, beyond the illusions of the ego that are the shadows of belief and into the light of the ONE underlying reality that is truth.
There are many roads, not all of which lead to the same place, and some are more convoluted in their pathways that take one here and there to possibly in some lifetime lead one to the Truth. And then there are those which are more direct in their approach.
The enlightened have always maintained that the wheel does not have to reinvented by each individual or by each successive generation. One person who has found the direct path opens that path for all always. That is how intimately we are all connected.

Some say there are two paths, one being the Path of the Sages and one being the path of the Gods. The path of the Gods is the path of enjoyment, or the pleasing approach to the senses. Because there is so much to enjoy in life it is maintained that as long as we want to enjoy life we should. This is the freedom of choice that is given to man as the image of God, or free will.
The Path of the Sages is a path that takes the mind beyond the sense oriented addictions that the ego attaches itself to to go directly to its source. It is much more threatening to the ego.

In the story of Adam and Eve and the Tree of life, the Tree represents the human nervous system. The Tree of the knowledge of good and evil the human nervous system attached to the sensory images and experiences that give the ego its seat of power and the illusions of duality or good experiences and bad experiences.
The Adam or reasoning principle of the male half of the brain reasons according to logic while the Eve or love principle, the feminine half of the brain works with intuition. When they work together they support each other.
The eve principal becomes the muse to reason, and logic becomes a grounding principal to intuition which without logic becomes irrational and impulsively driven by emotional subjectivity. When they become dominant one over the other the Adam principle becomes destructive and the Eve principle ungrounded and impulsive.
Each of us as individuals have these two principles working within the left and right hemispheres of the brain. In the waking state of consciousness which is known as different from dreaming and sleeping states of consciousness the left and right hemispheres can be measured on an EEG and seen as chaotic and differing in their activity and function.
In deep meditation or as Abraham Maslow noted when he studied what is called the "peak experience" the left and right hemispheres of the brain come into perfect alignment, and brain wave patterns when measured by connecting leads to the parietal and occipital lobes of the brain show themselves to be cohesive rather than chaotic.
Given such a tool that can recreate this experience one only need to get out of the way and allow the experience of deep cohesive intellectual and physical resonance take the awareness beyond the conflicting boundaries of separation and difference to immerse ones self in a more objective point of life.
When the mind is situated in a more objectively aware and still point of reference, illusions which create stress within the nervous system do not cling to the nervous system, rather they pass through as energy without the ego qualifying the energy and reacting to it.
One becomes observant of emotions rather than being ruled by them or influenced by them. And as they refine their intellect and intuitive subtle senses, emotional content is not owned. Because or our connection to the collective consciousness it becomes apparent that emotional content is given to qualify the experience of the manifest and often clouds the individual experience of reality. When one becomes objective they become a witness to emotions and can see how they have become attached to limits of belief and limits of objectivity that block clear vision and understanding.

Ultimately programs that relieve the nervous system temporarily can cause some amount of healing but if the nervous system is returned to its normal Eden like state of being or the awareness is not able to stabilize itself within the Truth of reality and remain objective, it slowly returns to habit by engaging itself within limited boundaries of belief and idealism that becomes the apple of duality or the ego. Our emotions lead us back to judgment and false discernment between Truth absolute, and truth contained within relative beliefs of the ego.

In one sense the discovery of Truth which is built within the natural laws of human free will and reality are not new because Truth remains truth whether newly discovered or buried under ancient superstitious ritual of egoic activity for countless lifetimes.
There is a saying that if something can be thought of it can be realized for our consciousness becomes aware of those things that can be brought into direct experience when the time is right and the awareness is sharp enough to keep from suppressing energy and to allow it to come forth into manifestation.
As the intellect refines itself and the nervous system is freed from the illusions of egoic beliefs and fear that are separation from God or the One absolute, Energy is transformed and transmuted easily and effortlessly by desire.

There are no limits to the human condition other than those that are self imposed. We cannot heal anyone until we are healed ourselves. Only then can we find the perfection in all choices and all reflections of the absolute One.

All True methods whether labeled as new or Ancient are really the same path to the absolute. If the method is real it automatically draws the awareness toward it like a flame attracts a moth, one becomes willing to give up illusion for truth or ego for Self.
No amount of cajoling or convincing can force one to make that choice, it comes freely when they have had enough contrast to be able to understand the difference between illusion and reality.
Until then one can only patiently embrace the choices that create suffering in another as the marvelous workings of God in action.

So when it comes to speaking of moral, spiritual and ethical values, the words could create the illusion of similar subject matter but the depth of spiritual awareness or lack of it in those subjects create interpretive resonances to the page that contains the subject matter.
We all stand on the same planet but we hardly approach life on it in the same way. So it would be foolish to assume everyone speaking of spirituality is similarly on the same page and moving in the same direction.

Consciousness recognizes consciousness, and a clear nervous system is much more cognizant of reality than one that is cluttered with emotional judgment based on superstition and illusions of the ego.
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





Top
#28058 - 10/15/08 07:21 PM Re: Philosophy of religion: Yours, MIne and Ours.. [Re: Tutor Turtle]
lehe Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/01/08
Posts: 12
Loc: New Mexico
Well, I understand TT to mean that his personal agenda is to keep you on the defense while his personal belief is that he is a genius. Once he relinquishes his attachement to those, true objectivity will resume.

BTW, I think everyone here is a genius.
_________________________
Toggleit

Top
#28059 - 10/16/08 12:23 AM Re: Philosophy of religion: Yours, MIne and Ours.. [Re: lehe]
Tutor Turtle Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1249
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
Originally Posted By: lehe
Well, I understand TT to mean that his personal agenda is to keep you on the defense while his personal belief is that he is a genius. Once he relinquishes his attachement to those, true objectivity will resume.

BTW, I think everyone here is a genius.

When true genius dawns in everyone, the context of what I wrote would not be misunderstood by you, or anyone else.
All agenda's will be recognized as illusion and creation returned to its creator.

Generally speaking, the only thing that would keep someone on the defense is when the ego is protecting itself from something that threatens it. (Ego always plays the victim to what ails it)

Anyone living in the present moment embraces everything as the creation of God.
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





Top
#28065 - 10/16/08 03:23 PM Re: Philosophy of religion: Yours, MIne and Ours.. [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
lehe, well said!
BTW, if God created everything, did he also create geniuses? Or is it genii?

What about fools (empty heads)? Did he also create fools to be suffered, gladly (Oscar Wilde)? laugh
As one of the genii, smile --definitely no victim--IMO, GOD is and in creation, and in and through us.

Top
#28067 - 10/16/08 04:12 PM Re: Philosophy of religion: Yours, MIne and Ours.. [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1249
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
Originally Posted By: Revlgking


What about fools (empty heads)? Did he also create fools to be suffered, gladly (Oscar Wilde)? laugh


Is there some place God is not?

When a great master says, "I and my Father are one" there is no separation between the Father and the Son. What the Father has created the Son has created.
That of course is the Unity of Christ Consciousness.

With the Ego there is separation of the unmanifest and the manifest.
The other, (the fool and the genius) as the object is not recognized as the Self but as a part of a fragmented God which is everywhere, in everything, thru everything. This intellectual approach is the necessary predecessor to the experience of unity, (sort of like diapers are the training wheels to understanding the evacuation of waste in the human body for a child wink ).

One day, God came walking through the world to see how his children were faring. He came upon
an old ascetic who had spent his entire adult life in severe bodily mortification and forceful mental disciplines.
The ascetic had gained a certain degree of clarity of his senses from his prolonged practice and
realized that the man casually walking by his cave was fully established in awareness of the inner Divine
Self. Painfully unwinding his body from his rigid posture, the ascetic bowed before God and said, “Great-
Souled One! I perceive you are an illumined master. Pray tell me, honorable sir, how long it will be before I
realize my inner Divine Nature?”
God smiled warmly and laughingly replied, “You are doing well, my son! At your present rate of
progress, you will realize your inner Divine Self with just one more lifetime of similar effort.”
The ascetic, terrified, in shock, cried, “Another lifetime of this horror? How can I endure this
boredom, this agony, this pain for another day, let alone another lifetime! How horrible! You have cursed
me this day! Begone from this place, you imposter! Never would I believe such as you.”
God smiled lovingly at him and walked on. Soon He came upon an idiot splashing in the river,
laughing and singing. This man’s primary activity every day was to cry out, “God! How I love God! God! I
love God! God!” This foolish one never took the slightest care for his physical needs, never cared if he
were fed, clothed, housed. He never noticed if he were clean or dirty, hot or cold, wet or dry. He might
have been locked up in a padded cell in our modern age, but in those days, people saw that he was
harmless and therefore tolerated him and occasionally gave him a crust of bread or some old, half-rotten
fruits or vegetables to eat.
This idiot was attracted by the radiance of this handsome stranger, came up out of the water,
bowed before him and said, “How wonderful! God has sent by a Great-Souled One. I have been enjoying
myself so much of late I had nearly forgotten I have a goal. I began my quest to realize enlightenment long
ago but of late have become distracted by this constant joy welling up inside. Seeing you just now
reminded me of my journey and I was wondering if you could tell me how long it will be before I realize my
inner Divine Nature?”
God smiled warmly and laughingly replied, “You are doing well, my son! At your present rate of
progress, you will realize your inner Divine Self with just seventy more lifetimes of similar effort.”
“Seventy lifetimes of similar effort!” cried the idiot with perfect joy. “How wonderful! What a flawless
boon, you have today bestowed upon me, Great Lord!” The idiot was so filled with joy at the prospect of
another seventy lifetimes of such bliss that the last doubt fled from his mind; his last question melted into
the joy that was his life; his ignorance was irrevocably crushed; he attained the highest state of enlightenment
instantly.


Tell me not, in mournful numbers,
“Life is but an empty dream!”
For the soul is dead that slumbers,
And things are not what they seem.
Life is real! life is earnest!
and the grave is not its goal.
“To dust thou art to dust returneth”
was not spoken of the soul.
In the world’s broad field of battle,
In the bivouac of Life
Be not like dumb, driven cattle!
Be a hero in the strife!
Lives of great men all remind us
We can make our lives sublime,
And, departing, leave behind us
Footprints on the sands of time.
-- Longfellow
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





Top
#28075 - 10/17/08 10:24 PM Re: Philosophy of religion: Yours, MIne and Ours.. [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
TT&orJO?: Thanks for reminding me--idiot that I am--of the poem of Longfellow, which over the years, I used in my sermons, more than once.


Edited by Revlgking (10/17/08 10:31 PM)

Top
#28077 - 10/18/08 12:51 AM Re: Philosophy of religion: Yours, MIne and Ours.. [Re: Revlgking]
Ellis Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
I think we all leave metaphorical 'footprints on the sands of time' --- or at least survive in the memories of others, and perhaps some of our elements are returned to the universe. Is that eternal life as it is understood by those who believe in that concept? I don't believe so. I think that there is no consciousness after death, no heaven, no reincarnation, just death. However I also think that being alive is in itself important and when we eventually die we can hope that those who knew us will miss us and be sorry that we have gone - and remember us with happiness now and then.

Top
#28078 - 10/18/08 03:35 AM Re: Philosophy of religion: Yours, MIne and Ours.. [Re: Ellis]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Ellis says
Quote:
I don't believe so. I think that there is no consciousness after death, no heaven, no reincarnation, just death.
OK, Ellis, I accept, with respect, that it is your right to be a true atheist and to believe in that which makes you truly happy. So let it be! Be happy.

Interestingly, you do add:
Quote:
However, I also think that being alive is, in itself, important and when we eventually die we can hope that those who knew us will miss us and be sorry that we have gone - and remember us with happiness now and then.
Ellis, your comments pose several questions:

1. What if you lived the life of a good hermit? Who would be around to remember you?

2. What if you died a criminal? Who would care to remember you?

3. If for you, death is the end of your personal consciousness, why would you have any care as to who remembers you? Or not?

Top
#28079 - 10/18/08 04:35 AM Re: Philosophy of religion: Yours, MIne and Ours.. [Re: Ellis]
Tutor Turtle Offline
Megastar

Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1249
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
Originally Posted By: Ellis
I think we all leave metaphorical 'footprints on the sands of time' --- or at least survive in the memories of others, and perhaps some of our elements are returned to the universe. Is that eternal life as it is understood by those who believe in that concept? I don't believe so.
Eternal life is the continuance of awareness that is universal consciousness which exists regardless of human expiration. From a limited standpoint the ego sees and experiences itself only in the physical boundaries that exist between the birth and death of the human body. The universe and the life within it is much greater than the ego and its limits of illusory manipulation and control that ends in physical death.

The footprints that one leaves on the sands of time are those that are in tune with universal mind. Those that create pathways of conscious awareness in all of mankind.
Memories fade and become distorted, but Truth remains eternal and when one finds and lives from eternal truth they leave markers like breadcrumbs on a living pathway for others to follow.
Jesus was such a person as was Buddha and many other conscious human beings.
It doesn't matter if you have conscious contact with humans to leave such a footprint. You only have to connect with the underlying principle that is the source of humanity.
It leaves an imprint in the collective consciousness which is indelible, but invisible to the ego which creates illusory standards of measure that are constantly changing according to the fragmented pictures created from the myriad of subjective personalities.
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





Top
Page 11 of 13 < 1 2 ... 9 10 11 12 13 >



Newest Members
debbieevans, bkhj, jackk, Johnmattison, RacerGT
865 Registered Users
Sponsor
Facebook

We're on Facebook
Join Our Group

Science a GoGo's Home Page | Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Contact Us
Features | News | Books | Physics | Space | Climate Change | Health | Technology | Natural World

Copyright © 1998 - 2016 Science a GoGo and its licensors. All rights reserved.