Science a GoGo's Home Page Forums General Discussion Climate Change Forum what a difference two years make

longer summers.
2 years ago and today

Not sure what your point is ?

I think on the dates you are comparing (Oct. 12 2006 vs. Oct. 12th 2008), total sea ice is similar.

Looking at the 2 pics, clearly there is less sea ice just north of Alaska than there was 2 years ago .... but the Russian islands of Novaya Zemlya are now ice bound as opposed to being ice free 2 years ago ....

What is your point ?

I dont know !

I just thought that the 2 yr old 2006 picture
showed more ice and snow than the newer 2008 picture.

maybe I looked at it wrong , maybe I should look at it the way you do , that way there would be no significant changes obvious enough to even consider making such a post !

...

You are right - on Oct 12th, there was more ice 2 years ago .... although I think you would have to be pretty eagle-eyed to notice it on a map ....

Oct 12, 2006 : 6,777,344 km2
Oct 12, 2008 : 6,695,000 km2

http://www.ijis.iarc.uaf.edu/en/home/seaice_extent.htm

OK try this one then

the grey in the 2006 map is not snow.

the white in the 2008 map is snow.

Quite a difference in two years wouldnt you say?

Paul- Did you hear the news this am (Sunday 14th) that more parts of the Arctic would be ice-free at certain times of the year in 5 years, not the 30 years predicted earlier? The report suggested that the environmental effect would be significant, and included the effect on the peoples of the area.

To think that any change in ice volume anywhere, over a period of just two years, could have any signigicance at all is wacky. If it rained a half inch more in Moab, Utah this year than it did last year, would that point to a future global flood?

Ellis

I had heard of this months ago , and according to this winter
I wouldnt doubt that next summer will be a real boiler !!

and along with the additional heat there will of course be additional melting in the antartic that will cool the earth a little more next winter...

its summer down under right now isnt it?
are you experiencing any measurable change in climate?
I mean can you tell a difference?

alot of people might not agree that melting ice will in fact cool the earth due to the decreased pressures , but what else could be cooling the oceans as seen in the last few years?

I am interested in how far down the snow and ice will reach this winter and if the snow and ice will reach into australia in a year or two or not.

seems were in for a few dramatic changes that were not widely broadcasted.

..

http://igloo.atmos.uiuc.edu/cgi-bin/test...=28&sy=2008

wow not much of a differnce

hmm, but if you gave me tenure and a goverment grant its an end of the world, man made global warming I'd say.

Be like Al Gore think Green, $$$

really?

tell that to the millions who are experiencing record cold temperatures this year and ask them if they would prefer the 2006 temperatures.

btw, I corrected your spelling! LOL ;-)

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Hey, I couldn't get you, what do you want to say, please explain in brief.

So far in my part of Oz it has been a very cool summer. Actually it hasn't really, it's more that the last five or so years had been horrifically hot. NYE last year was 41c. This year it was 16c !!!!

Personally I believe that the term Climate Change is more descriptive of what is happening now than Global Warming. Here, in the south, we are much much drier than we used to be and the last ten years have seen us in drought. This part of the country used to be very damp and rainy. Not any more! Although rain has been pouring down further north, we only had half the rain we usually get in Spring last year, and this cool summer is welcome as we are still getting less than half our usual rainfall. So much so that a desalination plant is being built (on a lovely stretch of beautiful coastline- but that's another story!) to supply the water needed in future by Melbourne, a city of 4 million people. Apparently weather/climate forecasters see no reason to suppose that rainfall here will return to what was regarded as normal.

PS- I feel I should explain that the hot bits of our country are north-- the south (where I am), is the cooler, wetter bit!

Ellis

Thanks for the reply , yes Climate Change is a more descriptive label to use for now , with Global Warming being the underlying cause of the extreme Climate Changes.

the coolness you are experiencing will not last as it is due to depressurization , as the pressure reduction from the melting of ice ceases then the effects of Global Warming will begin to show its full impact on the climate.

as it stands today , there is still plenty of depressurization to occur before Global Warming will be a continous warming.

if you live around melbourn you can expect to see artic weather
for a while durring the winter at first , then basicaly year round for a few years until the depressurization ceases because there isnt much ice left to melt.

then a slow return to the type of weather you are used too , followed by continous rising temperatures.

there will not be enought energy to keep everyone warm or cool so the underground water may be the way to maintain a average household temperature.

while you have the time and the resources available you might consider using a geothermal system for your homes and buisnesses.

I hope Im not sounding too drastic here , Im just trying to give you guys down there some good advice.

...

I just think that the concept of a change in climate encompsses all the possibilities you outline, whereas Global Warming implies it is going to be warm, so when it isn't people can say---it's all rubbish---, and continue to burn forests to clear land for housing, factories and palm oil crops.

Unfortunately there will probably be little done to provide a source of new energy for us here. In this country of abundant sunshine we make little use of solar power, a stupidity that looks set to continue. You see we have extensive brown coal deposits in our state, whch is ours for the cost of scraping off the thin layer of dirt on top. The field is massive and there is enough to last for thousands of years, producing our energy and polluting the atmosphere in a very significant way. It's a long way from the city it mainly supplies, and provides jobs for many people in an area otherwise without employment except for farming. Politically, on many levels, closure is impossible.

As for the underground water, I am confused with the report as there is a well known and huge artesian basin under a lot of Australia. It provides bore water for a number of outback towns. In many places it is fairly brackish and only suitable for watering of stock, though it does provide some water in towns that do some purification. Often the households have a tap for drinking water from a separate supply, such as water tanks. Some use is made in my area of aquifers underground. The problem is that the replacement of such water is not clearly understood.

Personally I believe that the 'hot rocks' geothermal idea sounds positive, though at pesent. here is no industry to develop it, and we here in Oz need to use the free ever present solar energy all around us!!! At the moment though we just need rain.

OK - I can't stand it any more.

Paul, please provide one, just ONE, reference that suggests melting ice caps is currently causing "depressurization" of the globe, and resulting in global air temperatures returning to normal (the globe is not experiencing "coolness"). Heck, it doesn't even have to be a published paper, even a weblink will do.

If you can't - please stop posting this rubbish. It has absolutely nothing to do with science, and it makes everybody dumber just reading it.

Melbourne will experience arctic like weather? Good grief.
Here's some current arctic weather http://www.climate.weatheroffice.ec.gc.c...nth=1&Day=5
-26oC, with -40oC wind chill.
I'm willing to put money on the line, saying Melbourne will never see these temperatures. Care to take me up on that bet? $1000, $10,000, $100,000?? Whadda say?
Let's see how sure you are about your crazy ramblings.

PRESSURE



Pressure is proportional to Temperature



just pick one



here are a few who believe that the earth is cooling - not sure if I agree to there reasons though.



------------------------------------------------------------
YOUR TURN
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Cannuck, please provide one, just ONE, reference that suggests melting ice caps are not currently causing "depressurization" of the globe. Heck, it doesn't even have to be a published paper, even a weblink will do.

If you can't - please stop posting this rubbish. It has absolutely nothing to do with science, and it makes everybody dumber just reading it.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Depressurization of magma is what causes a volcano to erupt.
as magma reaches the surface (lower pressure)it expands ,and as it expands due to lowered pressure it releases gasses trapped in the magma by pressure.
----------------------------------------------------------------

Im not going to bet you anything , I know Im right because physics tells me so , and if you can deny the basics of physics
then you could also deny a bet between you and I.

if you just want to throw away your money try buying some stocks or gold...

.

Wrong.

I can not really believe you posted something that ingnorent,or half thought out.
Most Geologists would say that its the buoyancy and the pressure of the gas within the earth’s crust cause the volcano to erupt.



As for my 2 year what a diffence link. and god forbid I leave an E out of a word.

but your premise for this post was stupid in the first place.


but hey, more power to you.

THINK GREEN $$$$, I do, Al Gore does.

but please refrane from ignorence in the future

Its obvious that you dont understand too much about volcanoes!!

and why didnt you inject your opinion of why a volcano erupts?

there are many types of volcanoes , not all volcanoes (erupt) !!

some or most just flow , maybe you need to read a little about what you are posting about before you post such a reply.

and you misspelled ignorant...



crust does not flow to the surface , magma flows to the surface
and inside the magma there are gasses that previously were under tremendous pressures and temperatures , as the magma nears the surface the magma undergoes depressurization , the depresurization that occurs allows the trapped gasses to escape , this happens extremely fast and an violent eruption is the result.

now if you want to inject your opinion of what is the cause of a volcanic eruption then please do so , you replied with this..



which is exactly what I said you just re-worded it.

...

only I added descriptive content.

you might think about reading about what you are replying to in order to avoid comments such as
"refrane from ignorence in the future"

and where can the ignorance be found?

.

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Paul is now officially on my "Ignore List". No longer will I have to suffer his intelligible posts.

I suggest others do the same. It's easy, just go to the "User List", go to "P" for paul, click on his name, and click on "ignore user".
It really is a wonderful feeling.

Many thanks for the tip, Canuck.