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#27576 - 08/24/08 12:36 PM Re: Philosophy of religion: Yours, MIne and Ours.. [Re: samwik]
Revlgking Offline
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MYSTICISM
=========
World Book Dictionary defines 'mysticism' as: the doctrine that truth or God may be known through spiritual insight, independent of the mind ...

But keep in mind, it also gives this meaning, "...vague or fuzzy thinking; dreamy speculation". "obscure thought, vague speculation".

What is yours?

To give formulation to my own experience I like using the following formula: E=MC2+I(magination)+F(aith)+H(ope)xL(ove)

Is this a the formula for the GUT--grand universal theory? Or the unified field theory? Just wondering.



Edited by Revlgking (08/24/08 12:38 PM)
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#27577 - 08/24/08 05:51 PM Re: Philosophy of religion: Yours, MIne and Ours.. [Re: Revlgking]
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Quote:
Sawmik:
So TT, if I can interject....
Can we define "Beauty" as a reflection of Truth, or a refraction of Truth, ...or in some way related to Truth?

Once again Beauty is going to be in the eye of the beholder and depending on the levels of stress or internal programs what one defines as stressful or even beautiful is going to be subjective.
In the previous Sutra Patanjali describes 5 kinds of action or movements:
1) Upward thoughts
2) Downward thoughts
3) Dreaming
4) Sleep
5) Memory

"Upward thoughts," also mean "great, filling, fulfilling, true, satisfying, and nourishing beliefs, wishes, desires, perceptions and observations." Thus this kind of movement of consciousness leads directly to positivity, to health, to expansion of consciousness, to all that is great and worthwhile in the mind.
Patanjali uses the word to describe thoughts based on Truth. Tho all is connected in the Unity of God not all thoughts are based on One truth if consciousness is divided in the relative ideals and identities that are created within the ego.
"Downward thoughts," on the other hand, mean all that is destructive. Viparyaya (sanskrit from the original Sutra) can also be translated as "inverted, opposed, perverse, altered, changed for the worse, disfigured, calamitous, unfortunate, wrong and erroneous thinking." Thus downward thoughts lead to all that is damaging in life, to greater bondage, to increased ignorance and destruction.
These two kinds of movements together constitute the thoughts of the Waking State of Consciousness. Downward thoughts include all the self-destructive beliefs, habits and judgments that make life difficult, that lead to failure of all kinds -- mental, emotional and physical. Upward thoughts include those thoughts that lead to liberation. Any thought that is directed upward -- toward Truth, Beauty, Love, Light, God -- is under this category.
Of the nearly Infinite number of possible upward-rising thoughts, a small handful can be considered to be truly liberating from the confines of the Waking State ego. In our experience, there are approximately 108 of these Great Thoughts (Mahavakyas in Sanskrit) that lead directly to enlightenment.
"Dreams," vikalpa, the 3rd movement of consciousness include all illusions and fantasies. Dreams follow the echo of experience; they are void of Reality.

Experience in the Waking State overloads the nervous system and creates stresses in the body. With the rest of sleep, these stresses start to dissolve; their movement creates the illusion of reality in the mind. In other words, the source of most dreams is the reverberation of previous experience. Attempting to derive meaning from the symbols contained in dreams is therefore largely a waste of time. Much more can be accomplished in the Waking State, given the appropriate tools and guidance, than can be accomplished by analyzing dreams. They are like the shards of the broken pottery of Waking State experience: difficult to piece back together, hard to manipulate effectively, time-consuming and of questionable value in the end. Time is precious. Why analyze illusions when so much of Reality remains to be understood? Enlightenment comes more quickly by studying Reality than by studying fantasy. There is wonder enough in the waking world to keep anyone enthralled indefinitely. As fascinating and instructional as dreams can certainly be, Evolution comes most quickly by focusing on transformation of the Waking State.
None of this should be taken to mean that direct cognition cannot occur in the dream state. It can occur in any state. Lucid dreaming does not fall under this definition of dreaming. Truth and Beauty can be found anywhere at any time. But it is not from studying dreams that direct cognition most easily flows.
"Sleep," nidra, the 4th movement of consciousness: Sleep is the movement that adheres to the thought of nothing.

Patanjali reintroduces vitti, "movement," here to reinforce his explanation that sleep is not a state of mind completely without thought. The mind completely without thought, it must be reemphasized, experiences Transcendant or absolute Consciousness or cosmic consciousness or the reflection of the absolute The "True Nature of the Self," "True Condition of the Self," "True Character of the Self." When the stress of the day's activity becomes too great for the body to continue functioning effectively, when the fatigue toxins have accumulated too much for the body to deal with them efficiently, sleep comes to restore the balance. The EEG records that brain waves continue during sleep, they are registering a thought of non-existence or nothingness. A thought of nothing is not the experience of Nothing!
"Nothing," derived from the sanskrit abhava, literally means "not Being." Bhava is Being, a common and useful word for the "True Self" or condition of the "True Self". "Thought," pratyaya, also means "belief, faith, conviction, cause, idea." And "adheres to," alambana, also means "supporting" or "foundation." So sleep is the movement of consciousness of non-being that supports the beliefs and causes the ideas of the Waking State. This means that the thought of nothingness underlies all the movements of the mind. Being remains forever transcendental to the reality of the world; it remains forever beyond thought and experience. What then underlies and supports all the movements of consciousness? Not Being. Nothingness. This is a very abstract understanding of this sutra, and one that probably makes little sense to the Waking State, for one of the primary beliefs of the Waking State is that its thoughts and perceptions of the external world are undeniably real. Thus someone falls ill because of a wandering bacteria or virus; one ages; one suffers; one dies.
There is another way of experiencing Reality, one that begins with the premise that the underlying support of all thoughts and external perceptions is, in fact, nothing. If this concept can be understood, not intellectually, but as a direct and living experience, then the ability to redirect the world in any desired manner can be effortlessly accomplished. The transformation of consciousness that makes this a reality is the subject of the Yoga Sutras.

The fifth type of movement of consciousness, flawless memory, is the most important of the five. Flawed memory, the usual experience of the Waking State, falls under the category of downward thoughts. Nothing is remembered perfectly in the Waking State, for nothing is experienced perfectly, as it really is. Rather, the previous impressions of experience and belief color every experience, every thought, so nothing is or even can be seen exactly as it is. Cognition of the True Form of the Self is a function of flawless memory, and therefore so is seeing life exactly as it is.
Quote:
Sawmik:
I think I agree with all you've said; but you apply this to "the acronym," and isn't the acronym just more of an evolution in one's capability to express something (more fully?), rather than an evolution or morphing of the fundamental philosophy behind the expression?

But I have a question about "evolution" of our 'God sense' that you speak to.

People born and raised in a particular faith have no basis for comparison.... Umm. Let me start over.

Doesn't there need to be some evolution of faith; from our childlike, 'magical' understanding, thru some crisis or challenge by other perspectives, and finally into a more capable, cohesive, integrated, inclusive and reality-based faith?

...like being re-born, or at least re-affirmed, perhaps....

From what I took in the Yoga Sutras to point to interpretation of reality, any Acronym is going to be subject to the illusions that are created by the ego. Therefor God, G'd or GØD is what some might think of as evolutionary to ones spiritual development but if you are still not in direct contact with God any reference to what God is will still be from the imagination which is encapsulated with personal interpretation.

The stories or acronyms of the personal become alot like the story of the three blind men who are taken to different parts of the elephant to briefly touch "an appendage" and are then withdrawn to tell their story of their experience and then define God.
The one who touches the "leg" describes the elephant as an immovable tree, round, rough and solid. The one who is standing on a crate and touches the "ear" describes it like a living carpet. And then the one who touches the "trunk" which causes the elephant to react and flip the blind man over and on to the ground describes it as a wild and dangerous snake.

Now if you apply the unified field theory of combining thoughts what do you get by combining a tree, a carpet and a snake? Do you get elephant?

Within the meanings of the unified field theory that Einstein was searching for was commonality to all perceptions that don't necessarily require that all pieces combined make a whole, because Einstein intuitively sensed that it was impossible to exhaust the potential of the universe to create a total combination of pieces that would make the whole of God or Consciousness, or the underlying principle of the universe.
So in fact combining religions is not the way to clarity.
Religion is more like a branch of a tree. While the religious followers try and water the branch and gaze over with scrutiny to those on other branches even possibly with interest as long as they see the branches rather than the whole tree they will invariably fail to note the root of the tree from which all branches and the tree have grown.
Once one has fully mastered themselves and their connection to the universe they have taken their awareness from the ego's interpretations of the branch to the root.

Of all the worlds religions: Hinduism--the most ancient, The Hebrew religion, Buddhism, The Confucian teachings, The Taoist beliefs, Zoroastrianism, Shinto, Jainism, Christianity, Islam,and Sikhism the most recent, all were derived from the experience of the root. The visionary who spoke to the people of their direct experience became the master amongst the waking state masses who's imagination was focused on what they could interpret from the visionary as he spoke of the root. From their interpretations grew religion, like a game of Chinese whispers or
blind men comparing their parts of the elephant creating democratic spiritualism, and we have a written history of how thoughts and dreams were applied in the crusades and the Spanish inquisition and even the Third Reich of Hitlers regime.

True vision, or to be born again is to be immersed in the Unity of God in all things, or said another way to have a direct "living link" to the root in conscious awareness. Only then can one be free of illusions and the discrepancies that cause illusion.
Only then does love become unconditional and will wisdom of omniscience fill the heart with compassion for humanity that is searching for Absolute truth within the relative ideals of egoic fantasy.
The wisdom of being a parent comes from recognizing the illusions of childhood and having a tolerance for the mistakes that children make from misinterpretations of the adult world. The wisdom of the enlightened is in recognizing the illusions ego creates while idealizing and defining spirituality and God.

Tho a wise parent can be tolerant and patient the child is not always as tolerant or patient and out of frustration will see the parent as trying to take from them what they have when they are guiding them to greater understanding. But without guidance the child will stumble into illusion after illusion until they have become open to receive truth. Without love of the parent children do not know love. If love of the parent is conditional children learn conditional love. If love of the parent is unconditional it is more likely that the child will learn unconditional love. Children are like sponges, their innocence allows them to absorb almost everything, it is the parents and the societal education system that shapes the sponge so that it absorbs what is categorically "socially acceptable."
Obviously with the conflicting beliefs of society and peer groups that are shaped by diverse individual thinking of families and their political and spiritual beliefs, children are pretty much living their lives in the environment of our schools in defense rather than innocence. Searching for packs that offer protection and support.

It does not require a calamitous event to draw the infinite into ones awareness but there are many stories of people who had reached a point in their life when nothing seemed worth hanging on to, and life seemed pointless. This is just the break spirit needed to slip past the ego to reveal itself. When the mind is no longer actively seeking to protect its beliefs and illusions a window is created where truth may reveal itself but this absolutely is not the rule. Epiphanies are not the standard for awakenings or for evolution of consciousness, they are more like the lighthouses that have been constantly ignored because if the societal and familial programming that has constantly turned attention from the truth rather than toward it. People get glimpses of the light when they relax the attention that is given to programmed beliefs founded on illusion and fear.

Man may in all earnestness move toward truth by intention and desire. With proper guidance from one who has themselves realized the truth of the root and with the proper tools to take the awareness to the direct experience of the root of the tree one can easily master the illusions of life and learn to separate them from the Truth of the absolute nature of themselves.
Quote:
MYSTICISM
=========
World Book Dictionary defines 'mysticism' as: the doctrine that truth or God may be known through spiritual insight, independent of the mind ...
Direct contact with the absolute is the spiritual insight that supersedes all imaginative illusions of the mind of the ego. It is direct communion of soul and universal mind, or what is also called the Holy Spirit.






One Sunday morning, the pastor noticed little Alex
standing in the foyer of the church staring up at a large
plaque. It was covered with names and small American
flags mounted on either side of it.

The six-year old had been staring at the plaque for some
time, so the pastor walked up, stood beside the little
boy, and said quietly, 'Good morning Alex.'

''Good morning Pastor,' he replied, still focused on the
plaque. 'Pastor, what is this?'

The pastor said, 'Well son, it's a memorial to all the
young men and women who died in the service.'

Soberly, they just stood together, staring at the large
plaque.

Finally, little Alex's voice, barely audible and trembling
with fear asked, 'Which service, the 8:30 or 10:45?'
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#27586 - 08/25/08 04:13 PM Re: Philosophy of religion: Yours, MIne and Ours.. [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Revlgking Offline
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COMMUNICATING WHAT ONE REALLY MEANS IS A COMPLEX PROCESS
========================================================
TT, your amusing story illustrates what happens when there is miscommunication.
===============
I have no idea if the following is true, or not, but I have in my file the story of an incident where miscommunication in English caused a major air crash several years ago.

Quote:
But possibly the most dire example of miscommunication
was the one where a translator at the Swiss Embassy in
Tokyo may have caused the deaths of 175,000 people.

As the Second World War was winding down the Allies
unleashed a terrible new weapon on Japan, on
Hiroshima, the Atomic Bomb. They then demanded that
Japan surrender.

Japan replied, through the Swiss,
that they could not (since their Cabinet was not in
session and only the Cabinet could make that
decision). The Swiss translator sent out the reply
saying that the Japanese WOULD not. So, to reinforce
their demands, the Allies dropped the second Atomic
Bomb on Nagasaki.


History and fiction--for example,the novel Wuthering Heights--is replete with tragedies brought about by miscommunication. And how about those reports about "weapons of mass destruction".

Interestingly, the Greek for "ill will, or hate" is 'misos'--the opposite of 'agape'. From it we probably get all our English words beginning with 'mis'.
===========================
I like the principle: For better or for worse, people need to keep on communicating until there is little, or no doubt about what is really meant.


Edited by Revlgking (08/25/08 04:15 PM)
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#27587 - 08/25/08 05:20 PM Re: Philosophy of religion: Yours, MIne and Ours.. [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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The example in the story is not always in the miscommunication of information but also in the ability to comprehend meanings.




Edited by Tutor Turtle (08/25/08 05:35 PM)
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#27588 - 08/25/08 10:42 PM Re: Philosophy of religion: Yours, MIne and Ours.. [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Revlgking Offline
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Posters, if you do not understand me, please ask me to clarify. When I send a message, I always accept that I am responsible for making clear what it is I mean.

If I fail to communicate, I will not blame you. Is this understood?

Please, feel free to question me until YOU understand what it is I mean. OK?



Edited by Revlgking (08/25/08 10:44 PM)
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#27630 - 08/28/08 09:58 PM Re: Philosophy of religion: Yours, MIne and Ours.. [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
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RELIGION, PHILOSOPHY, PSYCHOLOGY AND HYPNOSIS
In September 1947, at 17, as a very green and yet skeptical kind of student, I entered Mount Allison University, Sackville, NB, http://www.mta.ca I entered to take the basic BA degree in preparation for teaching, preaching, law, whatever.

Looking back, I realized later, that I was fortunate indeed to have had as my faculty adviser the late Rev. Arthur Ebbutt--later a ThD--who was also the newly-appointed adviser in charge of all theological students of which there were 60 males and one female.Times have changed. Females now outnumber the males.

In a private meeting with my adviser I told him that I was very skeptical in matters of religion and the Bible. It was then he mentioned the word 'psychology'...and philosophy.

"I think you are the kind of student" he said, "who will enjoy the study of psychology".

Then, I had no idea what he meant by 'psychology'. He told me that it meant "the study of the mind" and he added: "Psychology comes under the department of Philosophy. If you choose this as your major, you will be under the guidance of Dr. Charlie Baxter--a PhD from the University of Toronto, and a truly humble person.

Interestingly, later I found out that Dr. Baxter had volunteered for the war (WW 2) as a private. When they later discovered his academic standing he was promoted to serve in other ways, as a captain.

Without hesitation I said, "OK, that's for me. Psychology it is, for now."

Because of my interest in psychology--which I later discovered is the child of pneumatology--I have been a student of what is commonly called hypnosis since the 1940's.

Later still, based on the word 'pneumatology', instead of using 'hypnotism' I started calling the phenomenon, 'pneumatism'.

Pneumatism is the power of the human spirit (the pneuma) and its ability to use the mind (psyche) and the body (the soma) as servants of the higher good.

Interestingly, pneumatologically, or spiritually, speaking experience has taught me that it is possible to measure how much imagination (including, faith+hope+love) any individual has. Over the years I have done any number of experiments with individuals and groups, which demonstrate this. Just the other day, I did it with a person, right over the phone.

IMO, THERE IS ONLY SELF-HYPNOSIS
Incidentally, all hypnosis is self-hypnosis. The master-subject model of hypnotism is an illusion. Check out the work of the father of American hypnosis, Dr. Milton Erickson--an MD and psychiatrist.
================
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_H._Erickson
===============================================
The following, based on the pneumatological ability to imagine, is just a foot note. I will comment on what it means to me, later.

E(that is, the energy in and through all creation, as we observe and sense it)= M(ass) X C2 (speed of light, squared) + I(magination), which can include faith, hope and love.

It is my humble attempt to add to the famous Einstein equation the element of the imagination, to which he already alluded when he said: "Imagination is more important than knowledge".

Question: Could it be that it is the human imagination--used positively or negatively--which makes all the difference between a good or evil result?
Just asking, OK?



Edited by Revlgking (08/28/08 10:20 PM)
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#27631 - 08/28/08 10:42 PM Re: Philosophy of religion: Yours, MIne and Ours.. [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
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Just recently, I wrote to Wikepedia about Michio Kaku. The first entry was designated for speedy deletion.
But, take a look at what happened shortly after:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Michio_Kaku


Edited by Revlgking (08/29/08 03:48 AM)
_________________________
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#27633 - 08/29/08 04:34 AM Re: Philosophy of religion: Yours, MIne and Ours.. [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
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FAITH, CONFIDENCE AND THE PLACEBO/NOCEBO PHENOMENON
Confidence (From the Latin meaning, with trust, or faith). Several major articles in today's Financial Post, a Canadian daily journal on business, spoke of the role confidence plays in the economy. Markets rise and fall on whether or not we trust one another to be faithful, and honest in our business activities.
Nothing destroys economic values, including the value of currencies faster than lack of public trust.

It is widely accepted in medicine that bad news can make some people sick unto death. On the other hand, good news can often restore health to people who would die otherwise. The placebo phenomenon is a widely accepted one. So is the nocebo--bad news--phenomenon.

Pneumatology is about helping people find ways to have confidence, faith and trust, and to direct this power so that they do the most good.
_________________________
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#27634 - 08/29/08 06:57 AM Re: Philosophy of religion: Yours, MIne and Ours.. [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Quote:
Question: Could it be that it is the human imagination--used positively or negatively--which makes all the difference between a good or evil result?

In the teachings of Jesus as expounded in the Bible the union of God and man takes place when man expands his awareness beyond the attachments of the ego and enters his mind into spirit.
Such was the premise for his claim, "I and my Father are One."
Sin or evil is the folly of egoic conscious immersion.
In order for imagination to be good in biblical terms it would have to be the imagination of universal mind or the mind that is united with spirit. Imagination that is situated within the boundaries of ego are filled with the illusions of fear, attachment, jealousy, greed etc etc.
Imagination that inspires great works and new discoveries which expand mankind beyond their present level of understanding, is the imagination that expands minds of man and conscious awareness permanently and is often linked to brief communion with higher levels of reality or omniscient mind. This was also inferred to by Joseph Campbell as ones bliss, when he said follow your bliss,(that which expands your consciousness permanently rather than temporarily).

My feeling is that Einstein in his dealings with energy and universal connected-ness in the unified field theory he sought to prove is linked to higher states of consciousness and not the random imaginings of man fueled by his ego.

The entirety of Christianity is founded on the premise of higher states of consciousness, on Christ-ed consciousness. All inference to good and evil is relative to union or separation with God.
"Satan" is a word for ego.
Faith can be applied to anything but when focused on God has dramatic effects on ones life. Faith when applied to an idea of God when there is no direct experience of Union or God is a nice idea with no point of contact for focus or intention. It is an imaginative impulse that is like a monkey jumping from branch to branch searching for the ideal banana as the mind changes with belief.
Unfortunately there is no placebo for God other than the imaginings of good, which when driven by the ego become personal and not universal, but when accidentally tapped into through random experiences such as those inspired and illumined by great inventors and poets during meditative states while still immersed in the ego reveal temporary glimpses of greater mind.
Faith and Good have to be universal to all regardless of changing beliefs of the ego.
E=mc2 is a scientific formula derived within relative boundaries of manifestation and not necessarily with the thought of God in mind. To take that relative formula and superimpose another thought of divine principles according to inspiration or imagination of the ego seems like trying to put frosting on a textbook to make it a better read.

If God is everything then everything is Good.
IF the ego is still dividing good from evil, inspiration comes while the ego stands surrounded by what it imagines as not God or God created. Such imagination is flawed.


Edited by Tutor Turtle (08/29/08 06:59 AM)
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#27636 - 08/29/08 03:57 PM Re: Philosophy of religion: Yours, MIne and Ours.. [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Revlgking Offline
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KEEPING HIS EYE ON THE DOUGHNUT, NOT JUST THE HOLE,
Albert Einstein--p. 97; also in Transformation: Arts, Communication, Environment (1950) by Harry Holtzman, p. 138--said:
Quote:
I believe in intuition and inspiration. Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution. It is, strictly speaking, a real factor in scientific research.
Cosmic Religion: With Other Opinions and Aphorisms (1931)

* Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving.
Letter to his son Eduard (5 February 1930)

* To punish me for my contempt of authority, Fate has made me an authority myself.
Aphorism for a friend (18 September 1930) [Einstein Archive 36-598]; as quoted in Albert Einstein: Creator and Rebel (1988) by Banesh Hoffman

* It is my view that the vegetarian manner of living by its purely physical effect on the human temperament would most beneficially influence the lot of mankind.
Letter to Vegetarian Watch-Tower (27 December 1930)

* I am not only a pacifist but a militant pacifist. I am willing to fight for peace. Nothing will end war unless the people themselves refuse to go to war.


_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#27640 - 08/30/08 01:05 PM Re: Philosophy of religion: Yours, MIne and Ours.. [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
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About INSPIRATION, INSIGHT, IMAGINATION, INTUITION--all come from GOD, the infinite and eternal Presence, the Source of all that is. There is no need for anyone to ask reluctant gods, or a God, for these wonderful gifts.

All we need do is to surrender. That is, open ourselves, without any kind of resistance, equivocation, or reservation to the fact that in all things, GOD works with us, for good.

This leads us, within the eternal now, to have a sighted faith, a lively hope and a will that sees only the potential good in all circumstances and experiences, including that which, on the surface, appears to be evil--illusions created by what Eckart Tolle calls, "the egoic mind" (psyche). I agree with ET that, "all evils are "the effectof unconsciousness".

DELIVER US FROM EVIL
BTW, the so-called "Lord's Prayer" contains the petition to "Our Father, who art in heaven..." The RC version ends with the plea, "but deliver us from evil." It is said that Protestants, who gave us the King James version, added the doxology: "For thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory, forever." (Matt. 6:13) It is not found in most modern versions.

Be that as it may, Christians offer this petition millions of times every day. And I am sure that all others religions make the same kind of petition in their own way.

This poses the questions: Does it do any real good?
How come so much people-made evil still goes on?
How come in many accidents some are saved and others are not?
And what about the millions who dies in what insurance companies call "acts of God"? BTW, I could write a novel about the many evils--in the form of suffering, pain and deaths, which I witnessed close up, especially from childhood to the end of WW 2.

If petitioning a "reluctant god" does not work, at least consistently, what does?

I agree with those--like for example, Eckhart Tolle, Einstein and the like who call us to a Cosmic kind of Religion:

I repeat what AE said: "I believe in intuition and inspiration. Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution. It is, strictly speaking, a real factor in scientific research."
_________________________
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#27644 - 08/30/08 06:07 PM Re: Philosophy of religion: Yours, MIne and Ours.. [Re: Revlgking]
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Everything is "of God" but when god is filtered through the illusions of the ego inspiration doesn't always expand consciousness nor create good.
We see the results of inspiration and imagination that has tried to work for the good of mankind in scientific and medical advents such as the invention and prescriptions of thalidomide to reduce the effects of morning sickness which resulted in creating thousands of deformities in births.
Also the use of creosote as a wood preservative which added to the PCB's found in ground water, which we can add to the myriad of other contaminates such as lead, fertilizers, pesticides, growth hormones used in animals which are found in our food and water, and lets not forget antibiotics which are also finding their way into our food and water sources.
This is just the tip of the iceberg in the way science and technology has been inspired with the insight and imagination to invent for the good of humanity.

We intuitively know that there are ways to expand not only the quality of life but the consciousness to facilitate it. However the ego does not tap into universal consciousness when it is left to control the outcome of focus and energy because it does not discard failures which have harmed human life, it incorporates failure by staying within the same level of thought and limitation.
It is a lot like religion which focuses on standing outside of the likes of God, feeling so inferior that it must make a plea to the grace of omnipotent mind for forgiveness for being so low and unworthy and for a few crumbs off of the table of divine goodness and abundance.

Humans can create whatever they want because they are made in the image of God. However all inspiration, imagination and intuition that is filtered through the limitation of ego is not imbued with intelligence of omnipotence, but intelligence of personal realities which are saturated with fear and low self esteem.

It is imperative that man free himself from the influences of his ego before clarity of mind can tap into divine inspiration, insight, imagination and intuition.
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#27645 - 08/30/08 07:30 PM Re: Philosophy of religion: Yours, MIne and Ours.. [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
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(NB: A revised version of my last post)
AN AT-ONE-MENT APPROACH TO SPIRITUALITY, RELIGION AND THE LIKE
==============================================================
Philosophically and theologically speaking, the AOM approach is what I call unitheistic--similar to panentheism. I prefer to use 'unitheism' because it avoids any confusion with pantheism (God is the sum of all things).

As a unitheist, I try to make it clear that, for me, GOD is not a personal, human-like, fatherly and masculine being to whom anyone can point and say: There He is. For me, this would making an idol with the mind (psyche)--a tool of the ego.

MY PERCEPTION OF GOD
I perceive of GOD as the sum of all things--physical, mental and spiritual, which is in the process of becoming. This is the essence of process theology as spoken of by Charles Hartshorne and Alfred North Whitehead.

Unitheism is totally inclusive. While it encourages people to gather in creative community groups, small or large, it does so, not with the idea of imposing controls, but so that the community can better serve the common good of all people. Loners are free to be loners, if they so choose. If unitheism has one rule, it is the Love-based Golden Rule: Do to and for others what you would like others to do to and for you.

Unitheism makes no pretense that it has the one and only absolute truth; or that it is the only way to truth. This is why it welcomes all the questions of the philosophies, all the probing of the sciences and encourages the moral and ethical us of all the creative arts. Yes, the sciences and the arts can used to do good, or evil.

About INSPIRATION, INSIGHT, IMAGINATION, INTUITION--all come from GOD, source, the infinite and eternal Presence, the Source of all that is. There is no need for anyone to ask reluctant gods, or a God, for these wonderful gifts.

All we need do is to surrender. That is, open ourselves, be without any kind of resistance, equivocation, or reservation to the fact that in all things, GOD works with us, for good.

GOD AND EVIL
This leads us, within the eternal now, to have a sighted faith, a lively hope and a will that sees only the potential good in all circumstances and experiences, including that which, on the surface, appears to be evil--illusions created by what Eckart Tolle calls, "the egoic mind" (psyche). I agree with ET that, "all evils are "the effect of unconsciousness".

Anyone notice that EVIL is LIVE backwards?
Evil cannot Live in the light of consciousness. Therefore, be conscious of the NOW and shine a light all evil--that cause of so much pain and suffering.

Interestingly the last petition in the so-called "Lord's Prayer" has to do with evil: "Our Father, who art in heaven..." Some versions, including the Douay Version (1609) (approved by Roman Catholicism) ends with the plea, "but deliver us from evil."

It is said that Protestants, who gave us the King James version (1611), added the doxology: "For thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory, forever." (Matt. 6:13) It is not found in most modern versions.

Be that as it may, Christians offer this petition millions of times every day. And I am sure that all others religions make the same kind of petition in their own way.

This poses questions such as: Does it do any real good?
How come so much people-made evil still goes on?
How come in many accidents some are saved and others are not?
And what about the millions who dies in what insurance companies call "acts of God"? BTW, I could write a novel about the many evils--in the form of suffering, pain and deaths, which I witnessed close up, especially from childhood to the end of WW 2.

If petitioning a "reluctant god" does not work, at least consistently, what does work?

WHAT WORKS FOR ME
I agree with those--like for example, Eckhart Tolle, Einstein and all process thinkers, who call us to a Cosmic, inclusive and integrative kind of Religion:

I repeat what AE said: "I believe in intuition and inspiration. Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited, whereas imagination embraces the entire world, stimulating progress, giving birth to evolution. It is, strictly speaking, a real factor in scientific research."


Edited by Revlgking (08/30/08 07:44 PM)
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#27648 - 08/30/08 08:09 PM Re: Philosophy of religion: Yours, MIne and Ours.. [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Quote:
Everything is "of God" but when god is filtered through the illusions of the ego inspiration doesn't always expand consciousness nor create good.
Sounds good to me, TT. The ego tends to confuse knowledge with wisdom--the moral, ethical and loving use of knowledge.

So many of us allow ourselves to be tricked, by the ego, to create a 'god' in our own image. We need to surrender the ego and let it happen the other way round--let GOD be the Presence in us.

As Eckhart Tolle points out--(pages 140-142, and 224 of THE POWER OF NOW)--the Source, the Unmanifested is the infinity of space and the eternity of time--the two essential attributes of what I mean when I write, GOD. On page 224 he writes:
Quote:
God is Being itself, not a being.


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#27668 - 09/02/08 02:56 PM Re: Philosophy of religion: Yours, MIne and Ours.. [Re: Revlgking]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I assume you quote scripture from the bible because you see it as an authority since you use scripture to prove a point on one hand, yet, at other times, you say that your perception of God is impersonal on the other?

Also, you've mentioned that you see Eckhart Tolle as presenting the truth, which surprises me. Eckhart Tolle's references to scripture are interpretive, whereas when you have referred to scripture, which I've looked up every time, you do not interpret or give your own bent, but really have taken the time to take and use in context, which I really admire. You don't twist it to mean what you want it to say like Eckhart Tolle does. Check it out for yourself. I think you'll see that you are much more consistent than he is. The only part that I take issue with is your saying God is impersonal when the bible is pretty clear on that. Maybe the old testament hasn't been your focus as much as the new testament. But even in the new testament, Jesus clearly states that He and the Father are One, that He is to be worshiped as Lord. So either Jesus was crazy or He really is God. Eckhart Tolle doesn't get it. It seems you are closer than the truth than the so-called experts you may be trying to rely on to valid your views. I'd say, stick with your own path of seeking the truth, especially biblically. You're closer to it than some of those you quote.

Tolle thinks Buddha and Jesus were basically the same person, the whole Christ-consciousness theory. He is so far off on this. Buddha didn't die and rise again, or even claim to. He didn't claim to be God, Jesus did. Buddhism doesn't support a personal God, Jesus does... very personal, about as personal as you can get, AND one that is in everything, created everything and will resolve everything in the end. The Dalai Lama doesn't even believe in a god, let alone God, or prayer... just being happy. Try that on your own... aarrgg. I've tried just being happy and then I look at all the suffering in the world, babies starving, and it gets really hard to do without believing in a personal God that promises to resolve it all.... what a big job .. but I guess a God who IS LOVE can do that. Why does a God that is pure Love allow all this crap to happen? I can hardly wait to find out. It will take a huge paradigm shift and I don't think we're there quite yet... So I say, follow your own research and not someone else's, meditating on that idea of pure Love... relate to that ... bend our minds around that ... and stay open until it's clear... don't let our minds solidify around someone elses philosophy, and we might get there some day. Like I said, I can hardly wait. I just love those ah-ha moments and that's going to be the best one.

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#27669 - 09/02/08 05:39 PM Re: Philosophy of religion: Yours, MIne and Ours.. [Re: Anonymous]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Jesus, when he said "I and my Father are one" stated the union between the relative and the spirit. That fact that he spoke of himself and the Father was a pretty good indicator that there were two images he was speaking of. One was not physical and the other was a physical reflection of Christ/God consciousness.
He again supported this statement with
Jn 8:18 I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me. and again, Jn 5:36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.

In further discourses to speak of Christ consciousness he described himself as both the Son of Man and the Son of God, having been born in the flesh and having traversed the path of righteousness to be born again as the Christed Son of God. He prescribed the path of righteousness and to be born again to all men and women, not to worship himself, Jesus the man but to worship the Christ in all men.
Ps 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
There is reference to his own evolution and a previous incarnation of Jesus and John the Baptist as Elisha and Elijah where Elisha/Jesus was the student of John/Elijah in Matthew 3:
13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.

14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?

15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.


When Jesus said: Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfill all righteousness. Then he suffered him. He recognized his former teacher Elijah and was relating the role playing where in this time he was to be the Christed master and John to play a lesser role. In surrendering to God's plan and will he (John) baptized Jesus and Jesus in being born again in that moment saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him, was Christed and became the Son of God: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased relegating power of God in a man of righteousness where the son of man is born again into the Son of God.
Again in another passage Jesus talks about Christ Consciousness where he states he Jesus is not THE GOD: Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. Saying "the son" he is not making it personal (Claiming to be the only Son) but universal to all of man which he spoke of when he said "Ye are Gods." It was the Christian Church who dictated that Jesus was the ONLY Son of God, which was for the purpose of control and manipulation, to keep the masses subservient to the Church as the Church became twisted like the Pharisees in Jesus' time.
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#27670 - 09/02/08 07:05 PM Re: Philosophy of religion: Yours, MIne and Ours.. [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Being made in the image of God is not the same as being made to BE God. Is your image in the mirror you? Or is it a reflection of the real you? Can it become you? This is basic physics. Reflection of light is not the same as light. There is a source for that light that is reflected. Don't you think the source is worth reaching for rather than trying to become something you can't become but can only emulate if you hold still enough to do so? By your own will, I don't think so. By grace? By the power of source? It's worth looking deeper. Don't stop at manmade platitudes. Keep thinking. Stay open. As soon as you think you've got it.. it's slips out of your hands. You sounded more knowledgeable when you were in wonderment. Now THAT'S surrender.

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#27671 - 09/02/08 08:33 PM Re: Philosophy of religion: Yours, MIne and Ours.. [Re: Anonymous]
Anonymous
Unregistered


when someone interprets the bible, analyzes it and turns it into metaphysics, using it as a resource for validation and yet doing exactly the opposite of what it states clearly we are not to do, interpret, they will get caught up in a never-ending cycle of new age discovery and ancient spiritual enlightenment, but it only feeds the ego causing one to believe that they can be God ... a trap the ego would love for us to believe. If the ego is to truly die, we have to accept that we are not and will never be God, a hard fact for the ego to accept, and yet that is the truth that will set us free. Personally, I've come to a place in my life where I'd rather be the child of God than God Himself. I'm more than happy with that role.. the beloved child of God.

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#27672 - 09/03/08 12:18 AM Re: Philosophy of religion: Yours, MIne and Ours.. [Re: Anonymous]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1249
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
Quote:
You sounded more knowledgeable when you were in wonderment. Now THAT'S surrender.

That's a personal judgment...Sounds like...Sounds more...

Surrender cannot be quantified but recognized.

Quote:
I've come to a place in my life where I'd rather be the child of God than God Himself. I'm more than happy with that role.. the beloved child of God.

Happiness by definition is still a definition of happiness.
The image of God is consciousness reflected. One cannot be something other than what they are only idealize themselves as something. Consciousness or God whether it be a reflection of the original is still God. We only make assumptions as to how much we contain god in images and how much we surrender ourselves to the original through the reflections of God in self measurement.

When someone interprets the reflections of god and turns it into metaphysics, using it as a resource for validation, they will get caught up in a never-ending cycle of new age discovery and ancient spiritual enlightenment, but it only feeds the ego causing one to believe that they can't be God, because they have limited themselves and God to finite possibilities.
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#27673 - 09/03/08 04:53 AM Re: Philosophy of religion: Yours, MIne and Ours.. [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Quote:
Jesus clearly states that He and the Father are One, that He is to be worshiped as Lord. So either Jesus was crazy or He really is God.
Anon, check out John 17. Let's dialogue. I ask, where does it say that we are separate from Jesus and GOD?

20 “I am praying not only for these disciples but also for all who will ever believe in me through their message.

21 I pray that they will all be one, just as you and I are one—as you are in me, Father, and I am in you. And may they be in us so that the world will believe you sent me.

22 “I have given them the glory you gave me, so they may be one as we are one.

23 I am in them and you are in me. May they experience such perfect unity that the world will know that you sent me and that you love them as much as you love me.


24 Father, I want these whom you have given me to be with me where I am. Then they can see all the glory you gave me because you loved me even before the world began!

25 “O righteous Father, the world doesn’t know you, but I do; and these disciples know you sent me.

26 I have revealed you to them, and I will continue to do so. Then your love for me will be in them, and I will be in them.”

It seems to me that Jesus is saying: By the power of faith and Love, we are one with him and GOD. Show me where he says otherwise.

John 17:20-26 (New Living Translation)
New Living Translation (NLT)
The crest of the United Church of Canada contains the words:
THAT ALL MAY BE ONE


Edited by Revlgking (09/03/08 04:57 AM)
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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