Welcome to
Science a GoGo's
Discussion Forums
Please keep your postings on-topic or they will be moved to a galaxy far, far away.
Your use of this forum indicates your agreement to our terms of use.
So that we remain spam-free, please note that all posts by new users are moderated.

The Forums
General Science Talk        Not-Quite-Science        Climate Change Discussion        Physics Forum        Science Fiction

Who's Online
0 registered (), 211 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Posts
Top Posters (30 Days)
Topic Options
#271 - 11/04/04 10:58 PM The Finger of Sexuality is Written in the Womb
Mike Kremer Offline


Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 1696
Loc: London UK
Sexuality is written in the womb, it certainly is.
Remember David Reimer the Canadian boy twin who's penis was burnt off when just three months old?
When he was six he was castrated, given an artificial vagina. And brought up as a girl.
It didnt work, inspite of the castration, she regarded herself as a man. Tried to live as a man
but eventually committed suicide a couple of years ago.
Its seems to me that the foetus produces, or is bathed in hormones while in the womb. 'Locking' in
ones basic sexuality for the rest of ones life.
I have found a topic that I previously wrote about in the 'old Forum' some 4 years ago, which seems to bear this out. ***

Scientists have just recently announced that our fingers can reveal personal details of our sex lives--whether we're gay for instance, how likely we are to be infertile, and how masculine or feminine we turn out to be.
Scientists now suspect that fingers may reveal our risk of suffering a heart attack, or even developing breast cancer. Fingers are formed as buds, early in foetal development, around the end of the first Trimester- a very critical time.
Finger bud development is influenced by the Hormonal bath in the Uterus, also the development of the brain, gonads and heart. But the visual length of fingers remain fixed through-out our lives. They are our lifelong tools or 'claws', robust markers of what our early life was in the womb-a foetal fossil.

Now look at your own hand. Pay attention to the length of your index finger and your ring fingers.
In woman they tend to be almost equal in length, measured from palm crease to finger tip.
The ratio of the lengths of the index finger to the ring finger is called the 2D:4D Ratio
Low ratios are considered "masculine" high ratios
"feminine". Sex differences are fixed by the time we are born, including finger lengths due to fetal androgens crossing the placenta and effecting the 'finger buds'

John Manning of the University of Liverpool, England, has found that fingers are a way of looking into the human development box.
In a paper published in the journal "Medical Hypotheses (Vol 54, p 855). Heart disease, breast cancer, autism, dislexia, sperm count, left handness, and gonad development can be deduced from the 2D:4D ratio. All linked backward to the ratio amounts of different hormones in the fetal womb.
It seems to work. Clearly Genes do play a role, 40 naturally gay woman have been examined, (not those that may have been conditioned to become gay by other circumstances) and it was found that their hands were significantly different from those of heterosexual women...in fact they tended to resemble heterosexual men.
Regarding musical talent, 54 male musicians were examined from the British Symphony Orchestra.
Itwas discovered that these men had significantly lower 2D:4D ratios, than controls.
Also autistic children tended to have very low 2D:4D ratios.
The handedness of 285 children were tested in a dexterity test, moving pegs from one row of holes to another row 5" away, using one or the other hand. The children with a low 2D:4D ratio-suggesting a higher exposure to tetosterone in the womb-were found to be quicker with their left hand than their right. This suggests the task was divided up by the brain hemispheres-which may well be influenced by hormone levels in the womb. A noticable trait, even if a naturally left handed child had been trained to write with the right hand at school.

But don't worry if you are the one that dos'nt quite seem to "fit the bill" .......we don't usually use height, to determine whether you are a man or a woman.

I hope you found the above interesting
from 'New Scientist June 22nd 2000.

"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.

#272 - 11/05/04 07:31 AM Re: The Finger of Sexuality is Written in the Womb
Kate Offline

Senior Member

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 334
Isn't six years old is very old to do that sort of operation? I thought they usually carried out sex reassignment very early on, first year or whatever. Granted, the accident happened when he was two but why wait 4 years? It could be that being a boy for six years may have more of an effect than anything else.

#273 - 11/05/04 09:59 PM Re: The Finger of Sexuality is Written in the Womb
Mike Kremer Offline


Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 1696
Loc: London UK
Hi Kate,
I would'nt know the answer to your question. But that boy was a celebrated case where an otherwise normal boy was forcibly castrated in an attempt to turn him into a woman. It didnt work.
Italian 'Castratii' were castrated just before their voice broke, to ensure they kept their clear melodic voice for the rest of their operatic lives. I have no idea as to what type of sexual activity they would be interested in after if any?
Arabs used to ensure that the women in their Harem were not violated, being only waited upon
by Enuchs. I assume in their case....everything was lopped off? Again I dont know.
These days gender re-assignment using surgery and
drugs are used. However today...(for some reason)
the subject, mentally and actively wants the gender change. Prehaps its ones mentality that counts?

But it was the 'fingers' in the last part of my
article that I found most interesting.

"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.


Newest Members
debbieevans, bkhj, jackk, Johnmattison, RacerGT
865 Registered Users

We're on Facebook
Join Our Group

Science a GoGo's Home Page | Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Contact Us
Features | News | Books | Physics | Space | Climate Change | Health | Technology | Natural World

Copyright © 1998 - 2016 Science a GoGo and its licensors. All rights reserved.