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#27052 - 07/10/08 02:18 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Quote:
My observation about his comment being a mild form of sarcasm was based on the fact that I find almost all of his parables filled with self-evident truth.
Self evidence of sarcasm? But then you also say you aren't sure of what Jesus had in mind, so I doubt anything about what he said would be self evident to you.

I am sure about Jesus having been serious about what he said. He did not play games when it came to truth. He was the most direct and straight forward person there was. From the early years when he began lecturing and even correcting his teachers in school he was bent toward the direction of clear reflection in a world filled with egoic twisting of truth and varying assumptions made about the universe. He did not come to tell a good story and leave the world with a message of sarcasm.
What proof do I have? The experience of having been annointed with the stick of knowledge, and I don't make assumptions.

By the way your sarcasm is noted along with your assumptions.
_________________________
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#27056 - 07/10/08 08:08 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Originally Posted By: Tutor Turtle
TT, asks, "Self evidence of sarcasm? ..."

TT, read Matt. 25: 14-30. In verse 27 are the words, "...you should have deposited my money in the bank, and I would have received it all back with interest..."

THE LOANING OF MONEY AT INTEREST WAS CONSIDERED A SIN
Now read Deut. 23:19. Also Isaiah 3:12; Ezekiel 18:8 & 13, Psalm 15:5--and several other places. Pious Jews--such as Jesus--were, and still are, opposed to interest charges on the use of money. No wonder the Hebrew for interest is 'neshek'. It means to take a bite. His comment in Matthew is obviously a sarcastic one. Jesus was obviously not against using sarcasm and anger. He used them more than once. He was not always, "Gentle Jesus meek and mild..." as an old hymn puts it.

Money, or commodities, invested to make dividends, more wealth--as in the parable--was, and is, OK. Failure to understand this is behind the current economic mess affecting so much of the world's economy.


TT adds,"... By the way your sarcasm is noted along with your assumptions."


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#27057 - 07/10/08 08:21 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Owww... Too much purpleness!

Vivid lavender is good for highlighting a key phrase, but....

Will copy & paste (in B&W or this soft color 339999) and read later....

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#27062 - 07/10/08 11:33 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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The Verses in Matthew are comparing the Spiritual pathway to heaven (For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.) to the surrender of egoic attachments to their rightful place, as in " Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."
The accumulation of deeds is not money and it has nothing to do with lending money at interest. It has everything to do with the accumulation of spiritual Karma and the interest paid back by living a spiritual life rather than by accumulating material wealth or isolation and greed.

Jesus did use language that was very direct and even harsh sounding but he was never engulfed or consumed by rage nor pompous enough to lower truth to sarcasm.

You may remember scripture, definitions of words according to the books you have read, but you are just like the pharisees and priests of old who Jesus reprimanded for parroting words without having complete understanding of their content and had more of an interest in drawing attention to themselves to boost their self importance and purpose.

By the way Truth being self evident has nothing to do with self interpretation of truth and mixed ideas.
The roads may lead in a general direction towards a destination but... Not all interpretations reflect reality.
We know this from the many religious interpretations of scripture of the past. Obviously the Spanish Inquisition and the Crusades did not reflect true compassion, nor the direct approach of Jesus when he spelled out the pitfalls of ignorance, and ego.
What feels good ain't always good for you.


Edited by Tutor Turtle (07/11/08 02:01 AM)
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#27064 - 07/11/08 01:49 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Ellis Offline
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Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
Sunglasses ON!!

Go Rev!

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#27066 - 07/11/08 02:18 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Ellis]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1249
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A cheerleader..Just the ticket for the Rev.
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#27067 - 07/11/08 03:22 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Ellis]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Originally Posted By: Ellis
Sunglasses ON!...
Interesting metaphor, Ellis. What do you mean by it?

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#27068 - 07/11/08 05:17 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Ellis Offline
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Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
Common expression in Oz...meaning that our eye is dazzled by some display.... such as purplish lettering where before it was dull old black. Teasing again Rev! (but I am just jealous because I have NO idea how to achieve such dazzling effects.)

I do like the elegant teal green too TT.

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#27071 - 07/11/08 08:45 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Anonymous]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Ellis,
If you end your text with [/color] and begin your text with [color:#339999] it'll all come out with that tealy color.
Or just click on the "A" button (upper right, next to the smiley face) on the "Full Screen Reply" to get the whole color palette.
Highlight your text first, then click on the "A" and then the palette color you want. Same with bolding, quoting, etc.
cool

...not TT
wink

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#27073 - 07/11/08 09:09 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Anonymous]
Ellis Offline
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Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia

OK here goes nothing!


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#27074 - 07/11/08 09:12 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Ellis]
Ellis Offline
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Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
WOW!!! Definitely shouting!

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#27075 - 07/11/08 09:13 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Ellis]
Ellis Offline
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Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
OK! There's a learning curve here, yellow is NOT good!

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#27076 - 07/12/08 02:07 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Ellis]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
High lighting it makes it quite readable. smile


Edited by Revlgking (07/12/08 02:12 AM)

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#27079 - 07/12/08 04:12 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
ANYONE IN THIS FORUM TRAINED IN ECONOMICS?
==========================================
If so, are you aware of the work of Hazel Henderson https://fp.auburn.edu/tann/hazel/index.htm
Read her and you will know why we all need to understand more that we do about the nature and function of money. You will learn how this useful tool has been wrongly used to create the present debt-based fiat money system, which is no friend of democracy. We desperately need a democratic monetary system. Without it we will never have freedom and justice for all.

A DIVIDEND-BASED, NOT DEBT-BASED, SYSTEM IS NEEDED
==================================================
What is needed is a dividend-based system--one that is a wealth-creating. With it, the present sub-prime mortgage crisis would have been avoided. It is no wonder that the term 'mortgage' literally means 'death pledge (gamble)'. And note how closely bond is related to bondage.

A dividend system--as outlined in Matthew 25--encourages people with money to invest it in helping people help themselves, not place them in bondage.

Are you aware that the fiat and debt-based system allows central banks to create and loan out money that they do not really have?
The Bank of Canada and the American Federal Reserve Banks are tools of the commercial banks. When their actions get us in economic debt who do you think is responsible for picking up the tab? We, the taxpayers.

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#27080 - 07/12/08 04:28 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
POLITICS OF MONEY, Hazel Henderson
==================================
http://www.hazelhenderson.com/editorials/politics_of_money.html
Here is a quote
Quote:
The word is out that economics, never a science, has always been politics in disguise. I have explored how the economics profession grew to dominate public policy and trump so many other academic disciplines and values in our daily lives...

... Happily, all this focus on money is leading to the widespread awareness of ways money is designed, created and manipulated. This politics of money is at last unraveling centuries of mystification.

Civic action with local currencies, barter, community credit and the more dubious rash of digital cybermoney all reveal the politics of money.

Economics is now widely seen as the faulty source code deep in societies’ hard drives….replicating unsustainability: booms, busts, bubbles, recessions, poverty, trade wars, pollution, disruption of communities, loss of cultural and biodiversity. Citizens all over the world are rejecting this malfunctioning economic sourcecode and its operating systems: the World Bank, the IMF, the WTO and imperious central banks.

Its hard-wired program: the now derided “Washington Consensus” recipe for hyping GNP-growth is challenged by the Human Development Index (HDI), Ecological Footprint Analysis, the Living Planet Index, the Calvert-Henderson Quality of Life Indicators, the Genuine Progress Index and Bhutan’s Gross National Happiness… not to mention scores of local city indices such as Jacksonville, Florida’s Quality Indicators for Progress, pioneered by the late Marian Chambers in 1983.

... As with politics, all real money is local, created by people to facilitate exchange, transactions and is based on trust. The story of how this useful invention, money, grew into abstract national fiat currencies backed only by the promises of rulers and central bankers is being told anew. We witness how information technology and deregulation of banking and finance in the 1980s helped create today’s monstrous global casino where $1.15 trillion worth of fiat currencies slosh around the planet daily via mouse clicks on electronic exchanges, 90% in purely speculative trading....

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#27082 - 07/12/08 10:33 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1249
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
Money and politics is only a distraction. If the population can be manipulated by its fear of dependence on money and the economy, entire countries can be controlled, not just individual people.
It's never been about the money. Those that control it aren't short of it, nor interested in acquiring more of it.
Its much more fun to manipulate humanity than it is to be rich and collect material objects.

If you have a bag of sugar and you put it out in small quantities you can manipulate where the insects who eat it live and work. You can even get communities of insects to fight each other for it.

Politicians are just insects that hoard more of the sugar, while the rest of the population gives up their ability to think to the politicians.
The Politicians don't have an interest in public interests unless it is the hoarding of sugar so that they can protect themselves from lack.

What is really interesting is when money becomes useless and the bugs that have the most of something that has become useless have lost their illusion of power and those who have real power become more visible.


Edited by Tutor Turtle (07/12/08 10:39 PM)
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#27083 - 07/12/08 10:51 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Tutor Turtle]
odin1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 136
Loc: North Carolina, USA
I agree Tutor Turtle,

If you can control the masses why do you need money? If you can obtain everything you want and need thru politics money is useless, except for the control factor.

best regards,
odin1
_________________________
People will forgive you for anything -but being right !
odin1



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#27085 - 07/12/08 11:47 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Tutor Turtle]
samwik Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/10/06
Posts: 1164
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Tutor Turtle
What is really interesting is when money becomes useless and the bugs that have the most of something that has become useless have lost their illusion of power and those who have real power become more visible.


So what constitutes real power (when monery loses...)?
Guns?
Food/Water?
...a good combination of the two?

...or maybe the information about those resources?

smile
_________________________
Pyrolysis creates reduced carbon! ...Time for the next step in our evolutionary symbiosis with fire.

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#27086 - 07/13/08 12:08 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: samwik]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1249
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
Conscious awareness. The ability to rise above fear and manipulation.
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#27088 - 07/13/08 12:22 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Tutor Turtle]
samwik Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/10/06
Posts: 1164
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Tutor Turtle
Conscious awareness. The ability to rise above fear and manipulation.

So maybe, really valid information, and a network to support and utilize it?

smile
_________________________
Pyrolysis creates reduced carbon! ...Time for the next step in our evolutionary symbiosis with fire.

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