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#27151 - 07/17/08 10:45 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
redewenur Offline
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Ellis: "Rev-- I cannot believe that you wrote this. How can you compare your life in Canada to that of a child born in a tarred paper lean-to on a rubbish tip in the Philippines?"

I share your astonishment, Ellis.

Rev, whilst it's true that we have it in our nature to seek social approval and a sense of justification for the lives we lead, it's my impression that you are overplaying the stories of your own experiences of hardship and rise from poverty in order to lend weight to your arguments. You must surely realise that you would have achieved nothing had circumstances not been fortuitious. You was, however much credit you wish to take for your rise to prosperity, lucky. Contrary to what you seem to believe, there are an awful lot of people far less fortunate than you. You evidently made the most of the some of the opportunities that you discovered but, ultimately, you did not create those opportunities. Many others fail to discover such opportunities, not because they don't struggle to find them, but because they simply don't exist.

Come on, Rev! What you are saying rings of self-adulation and a lack of compassion.
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#27156 - 07/17/08 01:49 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: redewenur]
Revlgking Offline
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Quote:
Come on, Rev! What you are saying rings of self-adulation and a lack of compassion.

RedE, I am all eyes and ears to read and hear about the ways you practice compassion and serve the needy. Naturally, without judging your motives, I will take you at your word.

The fact remains: NL was a colony, an exploited one at that, of England until 1949, when it became Canada's tenth province, which the students at my university helped bring about. Canada did not have a Health Care system--and many other social programs--until 1965. The churches, of all denominations, pushed for this. The Medical Associations were opposed.


Edited by Revlgking (07/17/08 01:50 PM)

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#27166 - 07/17/08 11:30 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Anonymous
Unregistered


But still, there was a "university" system, many "churches, of all denominations," and even some "Medical Associations" in your world. Sounds like a place with some organization and free, open communication; and a lack of political domination based on fire-bombings and personal "violations."

I'd guess maybe 75% of the planet's population had much less in their world.

~K

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#27170 - 07/18/08 03:40 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Anonymous]
Revlgking Offline
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Anon, are you telling us that you live in third-world conditions?
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#27171 - 07/18/08 04:57 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Ellis Offline
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Rev; I am still unwilling to cast Canada as a third world country during the 20th century. Let us look at some facts. You (and your mother?) survived your birth. To do this would have required access to medical care, or good luck/good health or all of the above. Many in the third world are not so lucky. As I type this somewhere in the world a young teenage girl will be labouring to give birth to her baby. Unless she can get medical help any problems she has will lead to the prospect of death or disability for her, and also her child. Having survived birth the child will be greatly advantaged socially by being male, he just might be able to go to school, a girl's chance of that are much less. Also in many countries boys join the army, as you did, where they receive training of some use later, but it is a dangerous choice in the third world. Girls stay home in uneducated poverty. You, Rev, are computer literate, so somewhere you did learn to read, (probably because you went to school). That was a useful skill to acquire, many in the world today are illiterate. You have in the past stated that you are growing older, many do not have that to look forward to, and the fact that you have seems to suggest that you have either good health or good medical care or perhaps both to have reached this stage in your life. I get the impression you are surrounded by a family and friends and enjoy a happy retirement with enough money to get by on. I certainly do, thanks to my own hard work and planning but also thanks to a sound social security system that supports older people. This is definitely not so in third world countries where the elderly, who have survived the hardships of their lives, still work, or are regarded as a burden.

I do acknowledge your pride in your achievements Rev, but your life's journey was set against a background of possibilities and opportunities that are not available in the other two thirds of the world. We should not forget how fortunate we are.

(Once again this is just my opinion.)

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#27179 - 07/18/08 09:33 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Ellis]
Revlgking Offline
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Ellis, thanks for your thoughtful opinion; it makes for good dialogue.
Quote:
Rev: I am still unwilling to cast Canada as a third world country during the 20th century.

NOTE WHAT I SAID
LGK: Keep in mind, I did not grow up in Canada. As a student, I migrated to Canada in 1947. I came from NL, which was then an incorporated colony, which had been driven into poverty by the greedy and rich few known as the merchant class--many of them were white-collar criminals.

Furthermore, let me clarify: I don't think I said that Canada is, or was, a third-world country. But keep in mind that the poor there were not much better off than those in NL.

I said that I grew up in a mining town www.bellisland.net nine miles from St. John's, NL.

St. John's was ruled by the rich merchant class, the have-it-alls at the expense of the many. The vast majority of the people, including the working poor, in St. John's, belonged to the-have-not's. It was a recipe for the kind of troubles the ruling-class Brits were already having--and would continue to have right up to recent history--in Ireland.

WHAT AN IRONY!
WW 2 was good for NL and Canada,including the working class. In the employ of the Americans and the Canadians, many NL'ers, including older members of my family, helped build the air, army and navy bases for the troops. Others worked the mines and the forests to provide the much-needed materials; some older friends of mine, served gallantly, in the armed forces, but especially the navy.

SCAPA FLOW
http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/hoy/scapa/index.html
interestingly, one of the first people killed in WW 2 was a Royal Navy sailor from Bell Island, related to our family. In October, 1939, I saw him join the British battle ship, Royal Oak, when it landed at the pier not far from our house. It was destined for Scapa Flow, in the Orkney Islands, Scotland.

On the night of 14 October 1939, the German submarine U-47 found a way through the sunken blockships intended to seal off the narrow eastern approaches to Scapa Flow. It torpedoed HMS Royal Oak, at anchor in Scapa Bay,and made good its escape.

That night he was one of the 833 members of the Royal Oak's crew who were killed.

HMS Royal Oak remains on the floor of Scapa Flow as a war grave, and diving it is not permitted.

Another irony is that more Bell Islanders died in mine accidents than died in battle.

And did I tell you that enemy subs attacked Bell Island, twice, in the summer of 1942 (I was twelve)? The story is on the link. The subs torpedoed our pier and sank four iron-ore carriers. Early one morning, my brother's wife--who helped raise my sister and I--found two German rifles (bolts missing) in a ditch next to our house. Close. NL'ers helped win the Battle of the Atlantic.

In my opinion, the role played by NL'ers in WW 2, gave us, especially our youth a new kind of confidence in ourselves. We had demonstrated that, put to work, we could help the allies win a major WW-2 battle--one that lasted the whole war. If we could do this, surely we had the right to all the education of which we were capable and to be put to work to build a just and brighter future for ourselves. Some, a hard-core few--grumbled about the need to rebel against the have-it-alls--even to the point of IRA-like terrorism.

PROTESTANT AND CATHOLICS WERE DIVIDED OVER CONFEDERATION
Catholic clergy and leading merchants--fearful of left-wing rebellion--especially in St. John's, spoke of how wonderful it would be to have an independent nation of Newfoundland. Maybe the bishop of NL dreamed of being a cardinal. smile

Others spoke of the possibility of, like the Alaskans, joining our American Cousins. The Americans were good to, and for, NL. Or, even the Canadians. Within short order, a serious commission was formed to explore all possibilities. Confederation became a serious contender.

The King family (UC members), and many friends and neighbours, especially those connected with the protestant churches in the out ports, became proud members of the confederation-with-Canada movement, which was led by Joseph R. Smallwood, a broadcaster and journalist (a member of the United Church of Canada). NL students in Canada, of which I was one, as of 1947, supported JRS.

In 1949, as a junior at http://www.mta.ca I met JRS. He spoke, eloquently, and was hailed as the victor for confederation-with-Canada movement. Regardless of the fact that, later, he made several policy mistakes, and held on to power too long, this was a great moment for the great leader. BTW, when I shook his hand, he named several members of the King and Kelloway family. He was, like Ronald Regan, a great communicator.

BACKGROUND
http://www.tidespoint.com/cgi-bin/search...amp;x=7&y=9

COMMISSION OF GOVERNMENT
http://www.heritage.nf.ca/law/commission_gov.html
From 1934-1949, NL was run by six rich and powerful people (three Brits and three Newfs) chaired by a British governor. BTW and IMO, on the whole, the COG did lay the foundation for a good future later.

IN 1934, NEWFOUNDLAND WAS IN A DARK HOLE OF DESPAIR
http://www.ucs.mun.ca/~melbaker/confederation1949.htm

For example, as a child, I never owned a baseball, a bat, a soccer ball, basket ball, or a new pair of skates--once, someone gave me a used pair. I played hockey--at which I was quite good-- without any kind of equipment, including pads, or hockey gloves.
I also played soccer. The whole team had one ball. The Scout soft ball team had a couple of bats, a couple of balls and a catcher's mask. I played catcher. I do not remember if we had good pads. As a Scout, my uniform was a used hat, and a belt. Bikes were only for members of the merchant class and the Company Staff. It was the same with the tennis court.

Ellis, you say: "Let us look at some facts. You (and your mother?) survived your birth...."

LGK: Here are the facts: I was born in a shed of a house--no insulation, no running water--the community well was in the middle of the road some distance from where we lived. And did I tell you: On more than one occasion, when I went to get water. I saw drowned cats/dogs pulled out of that well. There was no bathroom, or indoor toilet, in our "shed".

The "house" was simply a shingled and un-painted shack--I still haave a picture of it--was owned by The Company (DOSCO--Dominion Steel and Coal). It was one-half--a neighbour lived in the other half--of a larger shed, and for which we paid rent. There was no basement for a furnace, or a place for any kind of storage. All our heat, for cooking et al, came from coal-fed stoves. We had two.

You mentioned my mother, and my birth, which, as my older siblings told me, took place on a bitterly cold January 14, 1930.

Here are the facts: No doctor attended my birth. Doctors cost money. I am not angry at the doctor, Dr. Lynch--a good pious Catholic. His job, as the Company doctor, was not an easy one. He was responsible, at times of full employment, for 2,100 iron ore miners--who, by the way, paid a medical premium out of their small wages. The ambulance, which looked like a milk wagon, was horse-drawn. I could tell you a tragic story about this. But another time.

With depression on it's way, because of lay offs, frequently, many had to go without any cash income. Fishing, hunting, even young gulls, and gardening helped us feed ourselves. We also built our own boats, cut each other's hair and mend things--nets, shoes, clothes, etc.

The nearest hospital was in St. John's. To get there, one had to cross three miles of water--often too stormy and cold to navigate in winter. Sometimes, especially in the cold, cold springs it was blocked with drift-ice from the north (Yes, there were often seals, which the miners hunted)--and, prior to modern time, nine miles of un-paved roads, often blocked with drifting snows; it was not an easy trip, much of the year, but especially in winter.

Keep in mind, by the time I was two and one-half, mother lost her oldest son, my brother at 25; her oldest daughter and husband and their two children--all with TB. There was little or no medical help. I was 5 when she died (50) of TB.

Ellis, You say, "Many in the third world are not so lucky."

I am sure you can see that your comment doesn't quite fit the story above, does it?

Then you add: "As I type this somewhere in the world a young teenage girl will be labouring to give birth ... " then you describe the awful poverty, today, in the third-world.

LGK: I agree with you, Ellis: It is awful. More importantly, we need to ask: Is it necessary? Was it necessary for the working class of NL to be poor in the 1930's?
BTW, I feel I have some positive answers to these questions, and I am willing to share them with anyone, anytime. It worked for me.

LET US NOT FORGET: THERE ARE POCKETS OF POVERTY EVEN IN RICH COUNTRIES
Is it necessary, today, for the thousands of Canadian First Nations people, our aboriginals, who still live in abject poverty and third-world conditions, even in a rich Canada?

IMO, poverty in a rich country is worse, and probably is more painful, than poverty in a poor country. I wonder if the rich and powerful feel any responsibility for allowing this to happen? If not they should.


Ellis, thanks for, "...I do acknowledge your pride in your achievements Rev, but your life's journey was set against a background of possibilities and opportunities that are not available in the other two thirds of the world.

We should not forget how fortunate we are."

(Once again this is just my opinion.)


BTW, RedE accuses me of flattering myself:
Quote:
Come on, Rev! What you are saying rings of self-adulation ...
I will only plead guilty of loving myself--a good Biblical teaching. And so should everyone love themselves. This is the first step we need to take if we are to overcome failure and poverty.

But I will not accept that I "lack of compassion". No one who knows me would even suspect this.



Edited by Revlgking (07/18/08 10:36 PM)
Edit Reason: Needed it!
_________________________
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#27184 - 07/19/08 05:00 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
redewenur Offline
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Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 1840
Rev: "RedE, I am all eyes and ears to read and hear about the ways you practice compassion and serve the needy. Naturally, without judging your motives, I will take you at your word."

What is the relevance? This is not a place to grandstand and boast of our moral and ethical achievements, nor is it a compassion competition - if I were, then I have no doubt that both you and I would lose, both being human. That's far from the point. The point being that the world is not a level playing field of equal opportunity for all. This you must know well enough, yet you seem to be ignoring the fact, and insisting that people have only themselves to blame for remaining in poverty. I'd be delighted if you would tell me that you didn't say that, and that I misunderstood you.

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#27190 - 07/19/08 12:57 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: redewenur]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
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Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
RedE asks
Quote:
What is the relevance?
RedE, you mean: What is the relevance of our telling our stories? Since you are the one to bring this up, tell us, what is irrelevant about doing so? If a lot agree with you, I may need to reform my ways.

You say
Quote:
This is not a place to grandstand and boast of our moral and ethical achievements, nor is it a compassion competition -
When did I ask people to grandstand and boast ... ?

Presuming you are proud of it, I just asked you to tell us your story. Or as much of it you want. Are there any rules in this forum against doing this?

Me? I like hearing people's stories, as long as they are interesting enough to read. I don't even mind a little boasting, especially if it happens to be true.

Its the boring stuff is that I don't like. This I simply avoid--usually without comment. Uninteresting threads usually go dead. With over 360,000 clicks this is obviously not one of them--brag, brag!!! laugh

BTW, do you find my stories boring? If so, your constructive criticism is most welcome. Even your non-constructive comments have value. They at least show you are alive, annoyed and reading, eh? (As we say in Canada smile ). We could spell it CehNehDeh, eh?

BTW, all joking aside: If one of the scientists among us--I wonder how many we have?--came up with an new, exciting idea and invented a new way of making life better for all of us, I sure would want to know about it, and if I could write to him/her. Wouldn't all of us? Can you, or anyone, suggest any ideas that you feel would help make the world a better place.

This is my idea of a good, healthy and valuable religion, or philosophy: One that is based on reason and faith, and makes the world a better place. Ones that do not do so should be discarded. At least in my opinion.

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#27191 - 07/19/08 02:15 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
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Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
RedE, you say
Quote:
The world is not a level playing field of equal opportunity for all.
I agree.

You go on
Quote:
You seem to be ignoring the fact, and insisting that people have only themselves to blame for remaining in poverty.
I have never said "people have only themselves".
But any improvement must begin with an understanding of the full nature of the "self"--I call it the pneuma factor.

IMO, POVERTY-MINDED PEOPLE HAVE A SICK PSYCHE (the mind as intellect) AND, CONSEQUENTLY, they usually have UNHEALTHY SOMAS (physical bodies). BUT THE BASIC PROBLEM IS: THE HAVE NOT LEARNED HOW TO ACCESS THEIR PNEUMAS (their minds as human spirits, with the ability to develop a new image of the self).

PNEUMATOLOGY--AN ESSENTIAL SCIENCE/ART FOR HUMAN DEVELOPMENT Anyone who thinks the following is boasting, you can stop reading here.
Beginning in 1964, under the general heading of pneumatology, I taught, and still teach, people how to do this. BTW, I involved doctors, nutritionists and other therapists, especially experts dealing with addictions, involved in the healing arts. It was a HOLISTIC PROGRAM which went on the whole of my 40 year ministry.

Currently, in re-directment (I don't like retirement) as part of the FAMILY LIFE FOUNDATION'S PROGRAMS, I am still working with people, one a naturopath, some with very serious health and prosperity problems.

When I was an active minister with a parish--here I go telling stories again--in addition to teaching pneumatology, I visited many homes which, despite the fact there was no shortage of soap and water, were filled with children and adults living in filth and dirt. Until I, and some of my helpers, using the techniques mentioned above, got the people interested in turning on their pneuma factors nothing changed.

We helped people stop being poverty-minded and change their minds and make the choice to improve.

One more story: My assistant--I brought him as witness--and I visited an elderly gentleman who was a compulsive pack rat. He was an eccentric odd-ball. However, he had a job and worked as driving instructor. Because he never kept his car clean, he was always living on the edge, economically.

His three-room basement apartment, which we, as church do-gooders, had found for him, was so-filled with old papers--some even piled near his gas stove--that it was almost impossible to get in. It was also a dangerous fire hazard--which was why his land lady had called me.

As part of the pneumatology program, I spent hours getting him to change his mind. When he finally agreed, we helped him clean out the place.

My point is: he would have been on the street if he had not changed his mind--his pneuma. The world is filled with people who need to have new ways of thinking.

BTW, some of them are rich and powerful, physically, but have sick psyches and almost dead pneumas. They need help, too.

Of course the community--including governments, businesses and charities--has to play a role in dealing with poverty-minded people--and not just the somatological (physically) poor, but the psychological and pneumatological poor. We need to challenge such poverty-minded people--I am not talking about under-age children (pure pneumas, they will learn in their own way)--to get involved and be part of the solution, not the problem. Unless we do, nothing will change.

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#27210 - 07/20/08 02:05 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
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POVERTY-MINDED PEOPLE CAN INCLUDE THE RICH, POWERFUL AND ESPECIALLY THE GREEDY. (A revisions of my last paragraph):
=========================================================
Of course the WHOLE community--including governments, businesses and charities--has to play a role in dealing with poverty-mindedness is all people--and I am not just talking about the somatological (physically) poor. Many of the rich and powerful are psychologically and pneumatologically poor.

We need to challenge, and inspire, all poverty-minded people--the mentally handicapped and under-age children (as pneuma beings, they will learn in their own way)--to get involved and be part of the solution, not the problem. Unless we do, nothing will change.
==================
NOTE: I just read a front page story in the local paper for Thornhill, where I live: TOWN HALL ON POVERTY GIVES YOU A VOICE.
Thornhill, just north of Toronto, is part of the very prosperous York Region. Some of the wealthiest people in the world live here. For, example, Frank Stronach, founder and president of Magna Corp. The article points out that in 2001 about 75,000 lived in poverty. The figure rose to 125,000 in 2006--a 55% increase. "York region is a tough spot to be poor", said the author. I presume he meant that being left out of it all made poverty feel all the worse.

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#27216 - 07/21/08 01:01 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Ellis Offline
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So-- let me work this out Rev. You regard people with an intellectual disability as (I'll use your phrase) "poverty-minded".

Perhaps you would like to explain this appalling suggestion further.


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#27217 - 07/21/08 01:41 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Ellis]
Revlgking Offline
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Ellis, what do you mean by "intellectual disability"? I don't recall using the term.

BTW, what is appalling and wrong about inspiring, and challenging, the young and the mentally challenged, and to help them be the best that they can be?

I do it all the time. And it takes time and patience.


Edited by Revlgking (07/21/08 01:54 AM)

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#27218 - 07/21/08 01:59 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Ellis Offline
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Loc: Australia
Here in Australia we no longer use the term "mentally handicapped". We are all of us people- some of us have disabilities, some have intellectual disablities from birth, others aquire them later. They are then PEOPLE with -----whatever---disabilities. That describes who they are. They may also be "handicapped" further by the way their society treats them, both emotionally and physically, so that they are unable to achieve to their possible potential, but there is no such thing as "the mentally handicapped". Handicaps are imposed on people with disabilities by people without disabilities.

You still haven't explained your use of the term "poverty minded" as it applies to people with an intellectual disability. I will be very interested indeed to see the argument.

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#27219 - 07/21/08 04:18 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Ellis]
Revlgking Offline
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So Australians speak of PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES--whether intellectual (mental), physical or spiritual, right?--Interesting! Sounds okay to me.

You say that I, "...still haven't explained your use of the term "poverty minded" as it applies to people with an intellectual disability...."

BTW, IMO, not all "people with intellectual, or other, disabilities" live and die poor. In the USA, the very wealthy Kennedy family had--until she died--an "intellectually disabled" daughter. She lived and died very wealthy.

Also, I know people, here in Canada, who were born into very wealthy families who choose to live on the street, in dire poverty. I was at the funeral of one such, awhile ago.

Using the good offices of THE FAMILY LIFE FOUNDATION, which I helped found (1973), friends of mine tried, without success, to help such a person. I signed the cheques, which were never cashed.

Do you, in Australia, have any such people, and a name for them? If so, let's hear about it.

Meanwhile, I will call them poverty-minded and/or self-destructive--a pneumatological condition. Unless you come up with a better name.

Good dialogue, Ellis, old girl smile (and well off, too, eh?)!!!


Edited by Revlgking (07/21/08 04:36 AM)
_________________________
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#27231 - 07/22/08 12:10 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Ellis Offline
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Rev wrote;
I signed the cheques, which were never cashed.

May I suggest that money, as a possible solution, is not always the best response.






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#27233 - 07/22/08 02:27 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Ellis]
Revlgking Offline
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Ellis, tell us about this "perfect" system you have in Australia?
smile
But seriously, from what I heard about the person--from a very wealthy family--in the case involved, he/she is, what I call pneumatologically (mentally) disabled.


Edited by Revlgking (07/22/08 02:32 AM)

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#27237 - 07/22/08 05:52 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Ellis Offline
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Our system is similar to that in Canada I believe. No system can ever be perfect because the people for whom it is designed are imperfect, as indeed we all are.

You continue to be amazed that people from what you describe as "wealthy families" have problems conforming to society's mores. I am merely suggesting that money is not the answer to the problems that haunt the more deeply troubled amongst us, and I reject the term "poverty minded" as I have no idea what it means and I think it sounds an unpleasantly judgmental phrase.

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#27245 - 07/22/08 06:50 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Ellis]
Revlgking Offline
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Quote:
..."poverty minded" as I have no idea what it means and I think it sounds an unpleasantly judgmental phrase.
If you don't know what it means (to me), how can you imply that I am being judgmental?

Without judging anyone, I am using the term to describe people, who for real or imagined reasons, feel and act as though they have little social worth. I am motivated to help such people, not judge them. If you can think of a better term tell us.


Edited by Revlgking (07/22/08 06:53 PM)

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#27260 - 07/23/08 05:11 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Posts: 1249
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
Quote:
Without judging anyone, I am using the term to describe people, who for real or imagined reasons, feel and act as though they have little social worth. I am motivated to help such people, not judge them. If you can think of a better term tell us.

But you have judged them. By your interpretation of their neediness you make the assumption that they need your help.
You have judged their inadequacy and have made the judgment that you are the one they need to help them.
You haven't from Gods point of view determined they are on their own path of self discovery but have assumed they are broken and need fixing.

I have a friend who helped a homeless woman by giving her food and clothes and even a room in his trailer until he found her a job in the city. She came back after a week and told him she liked being taken care of and really didn't want to work.

We imagine what we think is real, and by that imagination make judgments toward the needs of reality (we assume God needs our help or we can do it better). We sometimes use the experience of the past to project what we think is happening now or what might be in future moments, but that is not a guaranteed projection of reality.
If you look at the medical industry, you will note that doctors can only assume according to statistics, but they cannot predict what the psyche is doing or will do because it is free from confinement according to best intentions. We give doctors authority over our well being and health yet the average life span of a doctor is far less than the national average.
The saying "The heart knows no reason" is testimony to some things that are destined to play out due to greater mind and natural laws that are not confined to the individuals needs of control. Psychologists often surround themselves with their interpretation of the world and define their practice by their self proclaimed accomplishments. But can a psychologist manipulate God or Gods will? Or can a Psychologist see God in the creation of lost souls?

A great master walked the planet 2000 years ago and in perfect surrender to Gods will, helped those that wanted help and left those that didn't alone. One of his testimonies to the will of God was that in every instance that miracles were manifest he placed the desire and the faith of those who were healed as the reason for the miracle and not himself. He was only the mirror for what was taking place. As it was, he never looked for anyone who needed him, nor saw anyone as broken or in need. He only saw and experience God.
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I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#27289 - 07/25/08 05:54 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Posters: Can anyone explain to me what the above ambivalent, convoluted, personal and sermon-like comments have to do with the topic?

BTW, I have no objection to having a thread for personal and sermon-like comments, where anyone who chooses to do so can have a go.

BTW 2, I confess that I, too, can sometimes slip into being personal and can be a sermonizer. Anyone, just let me know if I offend. I will gladly apologize and work to do better. Nameste!


Edited by Revlgking (07/25/08 07:03 PM)
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G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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