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#26903 - 06/29/08 01:37 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Revlgking Offline
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Perhaps it has been determined that, for some readers, you are verbose.

But what are your intentions?

Me? If I find post have lots of good and interesting content, regardless of their verbosity, I will read them, with interest--and respond. If not, I am determined not to read them. laugh
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#26906 - 06/29/08 02:52 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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I believe that you have determined that I am verbose. You made mention of it at brain-meta.
http://brainmeta.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=18644&hl=
Quote:
Lindsay
post Jun 26, 2008, 08:45 PM

BTW, Science-agogo is about the sciences, and NOT-QUITE-SCIENCE:
http://www.scienceagogo.com/forum/ubbthrea...26877#Post26877

To the Golden-Rule post, Ellis, a lady from England responded:

"Nice Golden Rule video Rev, though I would not include the American oath thing myself as it includes a reference to the Creator. I think the only one to do so. Isn't it amazing that since humans have been able to communicate philosophical thoughts this one idea has had such resonance. It really must seriously mean something basic for all of us. Well, I can hope so!"
Tutor Turtle, a verbose poster from Oregon added:
"The reference to the creator or to God, has a rather huge resonance also
...."


What are my intentions?
Purely to enjoy myself.
Not to label or pass judgment on people by habit of self made systems of measure, is just the byproduct of my demeanor.

By the way, I think you pass judgment rather easily, and by doing so miss the content of a lot of what is said.


Edited by Tutor Turtle (06/29/08 04:39 AM)
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#26910 - 06/29/08 04:39 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Revlgking Offline
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Quote:
What would you like them to be?

As "Brevity is the soul of wit..." I would like them stated briefly. If any finds them interesting, I am confident that we will invite expansion... smile
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#26911 - 06/29/08 06:41 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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I see.
Well, briefly stated, some things just don't fit in a box.
Tho I could possibly satisfy your desire, I may not be able to be contained by it.


Edited by Tutor Turtle (06/29/08 06:50 AM)
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#26912 - 06/29/08 12:43 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Revlgking Offline
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TT, BTW, if you feel offended by my use of the word 'verbose' in brainmeta, I have edit-control of all my posts there. I am more than willing to change it, or even delete it, and apologize. I presume you noted that I didquote the kernel of your comment, which I thought was valid.

BTW 2: What on earth are, "... self made systems of measure"?
BTW 3: I readily admit that I, especially in conversation, tend to be verbose...and LOUD, as my wife often reminds me.


Edited by Revlgking (06/29/08 12:45 PM)
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#26914 - 06/29/08 04:36 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Quote:
TT, BTW, if you feel offended by my use of the word 'verbose' in brainmeta, I have edit-control of all my posts there. I am more than willing to change it, or even delete it, and apologize. I presume you noted that I did quote the kernel of your comment, which I thought was valid.

No I don't feel offended. I was simply narrowing your statement that "some may feel I am verbose," to you feel I am verbose, which is more to the point of your statement. What others feel should in no way influence us in the way we feel. That would mean that we had no freedom of choice or the will to be cognizant of our own feelings. Simply following the herd tends to atrophy the intellect, and some people tend to hide behind others and make excuses for their own feelings and projections.

Quote:

BTW 2: What on earth are, "... self made systems of measure"?
Personal beliefs and egoic projections that are unique to the individual personality. Every individual sets personal standards. No two think exactly alike or feel exactly alike about anything. There may be similarities in beliefs and ideas but even twins are not exact mirrors of each other.

Quote:
BTW 3: I readily admit that I, especially in conversation, tend to be verbose...and LOUD, as my wife often reminds me.
That might explain the tag on my post. Psychologically we tend to judge the things we judge about ourselves, if we are not unconditionally accepting of everything.
_________________________
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#26917 - 06/30/08 12:26 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Ellis Offline
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I'll be picky again, and yes I agree it doesn't matter but I did not start it! I'm not a Pom, I am an Aussie-- and there are those who would say there are no ladies here, only girls and old girls. I'm one of the latter.


Edited by Ellis (06/30/08 12:27 AM)

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#26919 - 06/30/08 03:47 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Ellis]
Revlgking Offline
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TT, and Ellis, Old Girl: Do the latest interchanges among us perhaps indicate that we are now more willing to take enough of a risk to get to know each other a little better? If so, it is OK by me.

TT, you say to me, "I think you pass judgment rather easily." In the light of your comment above, does this mean that you, too, are judgmental?

May I add: anytime you feel that I am passing, "judgment rather easily" feel free to make me aware of it. I will try to avoid doing so by confining my comments to what you say, not at who you are. I am a great believer in the building of community by trying to avoid personal attacks and flaming. Speaking of community building, please CHECK OUT
Quote:
Scott Peck Model
"Community Building" also refers to a group process developed by Dr. M. Scott Peck. This practice brings together individuals to go through the four basic psychological stages that typify the formation of a cohesive group that has established trust and a deep sense of connection. As described in his book "The Different Drum", these four stages are known as "pseudo-community", "Chaos", "Emptiness" and "Community". Individuals within the group may be at different stages at different times, and may move back and forth through the stages.

According to Peck, moving into "organisation", forming rules for the group, disrupts the process and prevents community.

Pseudo community is where people are guarded but polite, talking of less important things and giving little away about themselves. Chaos is conflict. In Emptiness, participants "empty" themselves of their requirements and desires for the process and the other participants, enabling them to reach Community, in which they appreciate the process and other participants, and themselves, for who they are.

The group "Community Building in Britain" organizes group sessions using this process.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_building




Edited by Revlgking (06/30/08 04:00 AM)
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#26922 - 06/30/08 06:27 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Quote:


TT, you say to me, "I think you pass judgment rather easily." In the light of your comment above, does this mean that you, too, are judgmental?

No it doesn't. I practice svadhaya ( study of the self). In the union of God and manifestation there is no part of me that is separate. In that, everyone is a reflection of me. Just as creation is a reflection of God.
It is not the surface appearances that reflect God but the active transcendental energy within the layered appearances of reality that are God.
What we see in subjective living is a mirror to the substantial ideas we hold in place that make up the ego.
Once one has the ongoing expanding experience of the absolute God it can be applied to every experience and to every object of perception.
This objectivity allows one to move through subjective ideas instantly rather than to linger in them.
Quote:
May I add: anytime you feel that I am passing, "judgment rather easily" feel free to make me aware of it. I will try to avoid doing so by confining my comments to what you say, not at who you are. I am a great believer in the building of community by trying to avoid personal attacks and flaming.
I would rather you found the freedom to express feelings without attaching them to judgment. Holding back energy only creates a backup of emotional stress in the nervous system making one more reactive than objective.
The tendency to be proper is not in itself a bad idea but it can't be done when one has no freedom or does not live the experience of unconditional acceptance.
A person can restrain themselves and literally choke themselves to death, because of the judgments they carry about feelings and expressions.
In any conversation that becomes an argument it always takes two to argue. If one can be objective the other can move through whatever feelings they are having and quickly return to reason and objectivity. If that freedom is suppressed it becomes reactive like a steam boiler without a safety valve. I personally have taken an objective stand to study God in everything without detaching it from myself and my creation.
It's called choice.
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#26925 - 06/30/08 02:46 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Revlgking Offline
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Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Quote:
I practice svadhaya ( study of the self).
I study, and practice what I find to be true in, pneumatology--the study of the spirit (the self) in all its manifestations.

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#26927 - 06/30/08 03:29 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: TT
Just as creation is a reflection of God.

What a wonderful sentiment! I especially like the word "creation" because it can be read (translated) both as a noun and a verb. I enjoy thinking about both interpretations; however viewing creation as "action" fits nicely with Process Philosophy and Kauffman's Creativity Perspective.

~K

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#26928 - 06/30/08 04:07 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Anonymous]
Revlgking Offline
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Originally Posted By: Anonymous
Originally Posted By: TT
Just as creation is a reflection of God.

... viewing creation as "action" fits nicely with Process Philosophy and Kauffman's Creativity Perspective. ~K
Welcome fellow student of the process theology/philosophy of A.N. Whitehead. BTW, I call panentheism, unitheism. www.unitheism.org

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#26929 - 06/30/08 04:16 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Quote:
I study, and practice what I find to be true in, pneumatology--the study of the spirit (the self) in all its manifestations.
The self in the act of Svadhaya is the consciousness that underlies individuality rather than the individual soul. The soul is a reflection of God in individual expression.

Since God will not be contained in any image, it is only reflected in the images of creation. We as individuals are made in the image of God as stated in scripture.
There is another translation of the bible where Moses is speaking to God and after 40 years of contemplating the name of God Moses asks God "What do I call you?" God replies with "Tell your people I am becoming"
Being that reflections continually change there is no single image or reflection that contains the entirety of God. The universe with its billions of galaxies and lifeforms emulate the infinite expression of God.
Religions tend to isolate a few thoughts concerning the nature of God and God's creation and as such place man as a significant part in God's creation. It is in fact not man the image but humanity in its essence. The soul and free will is what humanity is, the images are more like clothing one puts on to immerse ones self in the sense of activity.
Morals are created and fixed to the images of the clothing rather than the eternal soul or consciousness itself which is the underlying nature of everything.

"I am the light that is over all things. I am all: from me all came forth, and to me all attained.
Split a piece of wood; I am there.
Lift up the stone, and you will find me there."


Consciousness can be found in everything that is living and not living. Some only believe consciousness is found in living things but that is because they do not experience consciousness, they only have an idea about it.


Edited by Tutor Turtle (06/30/08 04:29 PM)
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#26930 - 06/30/08 05:24 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Revlgking Offline
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ABOUT SVADHYAYA---
Quote:
Svadhyaya
Self-education, education of the Self

Svadhyaya is the fourth of the five niyamas (observances towards ourselves). Sva means “self” and adhyaya means “investigation, inquiry, or education.” TKV Desikachar defines svadhyaya as “Self-inquiry; any study that helps you understand yourself; the study of sacred texts.” These definitions all offer us different paths towards educating ourselves.

Self-inquiry is a beautiful benefit of yoga, even if we aren’t expecting it. Asana practice (doing yoga postures) is largely a process of being quiet with ourselves, and observing our bodies, breath, and thoughts. As the body focuses its purpose with each asana, we have a chance to see how the breath and emotions have responded. Gradually, we learn more about who we are – the bodies we live in, the emotional habits we have adopted, and our reactions to challenge and to stillness. This information can be of tremendous value to our relationships with our selves, and with all the people in our lives. ...

The above is from the following interesting link:
http://www.yogawithamey.com/svadhyaya.html

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#26931 - 06/30/08 06:06 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Tutor Turtle
Since God will not be contained in any image, it is only reflected in the images of creation.

So often people speak of God being "in" everything, which might seem to conflict with the above statement; but this is reconciled by realizing that the four dimensional world that we perceive is an artifact -the illusion, Maya- of a more fundamental process, ...IMHO.

Originally Posted By: Tutor Turtle
....speaking to God and after 40 years of contemplating the name of God Moses asks God "What do I call you?" God replies with "Tell your people I am becoming"
Wow! Thanks, I'd not heard that; but it's a good one to remember. [I'd appreciate a citation for that; if convenient?]
===

Consciousness in all things reminds me of Bergson (1859 - 1941). Something he said about... becoming one with something to truely perceive it... I think.
I think the last quote most closely matches what I was looking for; but still, not quite.

http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Henri_Bergson/
"The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend."
~Henri Bergson quote
"There is no greater joy than of feeling oneself a creator. The triumph of life is expressed by creation."
~Henri Bergson quote


http://thinkexist.com/quotes/henri_bergson/
“Some other faculty than the intellect is necessary for the apprehension of reality.”
~Henri Bergson quote
“To perceive means to immobilize. We seize, in the act of perception, something which outruns perception itself.”
~Henri Bergson quote
“The essential function of the universe, which is a machine for making gods”
~Henri Bergson quote
“Spirit borrows from matter the perceptions on which it feeds and restores them to matter in the form of movements which it has stamped with its own freedom.”
~Henri Bergson quote
“When we make the cerebral state the beginning of an action, and in no sense the condition of a perception, we place the perceived images of things outside the image of our body, and thus replace perception within the things themselves.”
~Henri Bergson quote

I'm not even sure how to interpret that last quote, out of context, I think.

.
.
.
...or was that James; ...or Huxley, talking about becoming one with something, to experience the consciousness within that thing? ~K

smile

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#26932 - 06/30/08 07:13 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
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THIS LOOKS INTERESTING
Quote:
Svadhyaya: Study of the Self, The Entryway to the Cosmos

By Swami Shraddhananda

Continuing with our series on the eight limbs of yoga, we come to the fourth observance, or niyama, which is svadhyaya, or the study of the self. At first glance, self-study may appear to be self-absorption or selfishness. But with some exploration, we learn how our culture, belief systems and superficial education on how the world works all contribute to a distorted view of the real Self.

To study oneself is to uncover one’s blind spots, ignorance, attachments and aversions. We soon discover that svadhyaya has nothing to do with selfishness and everything to do with the depth of human spiritual reality.
http://www.yogachicago.com/sep04/dolan.shtml

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#26933 - 06/30/08 07:39 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
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Anon, here is the citation you asked for: It is in Exodus 3:14. Moses asks God "What do I call you?" God replies with "Tell your people I am becoming".

The King James version is: "I am that I am." The 1952 Revised standard version is: "I am who I am."

The literal Hebrew--which, BTW, has no future tense, is: "I am becoming who I am becoming.".

Interestingly, the name Jesus--the Latin and Greek form--in Hebrew is Joshua, or more fully yehoshuah. It can be translated as "I amness is what saves us". Perhaps it needs be said that it is our use of consciousness--our I amness--which saves or destroys.



Edited by Revlgking (06/30/08 07:46 PM)
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#26934 - 06/30/08 08:59 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Anonymous
Unregistered


At this God said to Moses: "I SHALL PROVE TO BE WHAT I SHALL PROVE TO BE." And he added: "This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel, "I SHALL PROVE TO BE has sent me to YOU."

Ex, 3:14; New World Translation, 1984.
(Jehovah's Witnesses)

I like the "becoming" version better; but just fyi... an odd rendering above, eh? One could ponder on "prove" for quite a while, I think; but still, ...a process!

Thanks Rev.
~K

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#26935 - 06/30/08 10:24 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Anonymous]
Revlgking Offline
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Question: Who really believes that the JW's are the one true witnesses to God. laugh

_________________________
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#26936 - 07/01/08 12:09 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Ellis Offline
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Maybe they are true witnesses (or interpreters ) of biblical truth as they see it, and thus their 'proof' will follow those guidelines very closely.

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