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Originally Posted By: MikeBinOK


This is the Martian Summer and the temperatures are too "hot" (even though they are far below freezing!) for carbon dioxide to exist in ice form. They're fairly sure it isn't carbon dioxide, and is water ice. Thank goodness!


Originally Posted By: Mike Kremer


Hi, Yes like yourself and millions of others, we all hope it is water.
Evaporation of any substance in the more rarified atmosphere under less gravity, would complete quicker, whatever the temperature.
I was of the opinion that it was the white substance which had evaporated....Having found a later picture I am not so sure now.

The obljects are bottom left, but in the shade, yet the sunlit
white (salt/C02/ice??)material is still there. Adding to the mystery.

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap080621.html





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It is with great pride and a lot of joy that I announce today that we have found proof that this hard bright material is really water ice and not some other substance" - Phoenix Principal Investigator Peter Smith

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080622001541.htm


"Time is what prevents everything from happening at once" - John Wheeler
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Originally Posted By: Mike K.
Originally Posted By: Mike Kremer

I was of the opinion that it was the white substance which had evaporated....Having found a later picture I am not so sure now.

The objects are bottom left, but in the shade, yet the sunlit
white (salt/C02/ice??)material is still there. Adding to the mystery.

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap080621.html


CO2 would evaporate easier, but....

I'm wondering if the scraped white surfaces are the exposed top of a large mass of ice, which would keep it cold enough to not evaporate (maybe?), or even keep replenishing the substance. There are some changes. That left-handed semi-circular area near the top of the left trench looks more like wetted soil in the later picture. Maybe mold will start growing. smile

They just look like rock that fell in, off of the side; but....
My thought was that the "discs" which evaporated, were broken chunks, scraped off of the white areas that we see near the top. These fell out of the final scoop, I'm thinking; and not being connected to the cold sub-surface mass anymore, evaporated more easily. Also, I bet as the sol (day) progresses, they would come into direct sunlight too.

IMHO
smile

Hey!
Hasn't a rock moved, ...in the center (slightly above left of center)? It's the one with a distinct shadow on the lower right-hand side. That lump has move lower, relative to the other lumps.

confused

p.s. Maybe the soil subsides somewhat sol-ly.

Last edited by samwik; 06/22/08 08:16 AM. Reason: add p.s.

Pyrolysis creates reduced carbon! ...Time for the next step in our evolutionary symbiosis with fire.
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Originally Posted By: redewenur
It is with great pride and a lot of joy that I announce today that we have found proof that this hard bright material is really water ice and not some other substance" - Phoenix Principal Investigator Peter Smith

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080622001541.htm


Originally Posted By: Mike Kremer


No. We dont doubt that the translucent material under the craft,
and the sand covered lumps in bottom left of the picture is ice.

But we have moved on from there, and are wondering what the thinly spread white material is, -top right in same trench?
Chalk? wink


Last edited by Mike Kremer; 06/22/08 11:42 AM. Reason: added -

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Yes, I've been following the speculation, and it's obvious that you've never doubted it, but it's good see the mission scientists making no premature tabloid style claims, and giving us the facts only when they actually have them.


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Until then, isn't speculation fun?

Mike,
I wasn't speculating on the composition of the disappearing chunks; I agree they're probably ice.

I was speculating on the source of the disappearing chunks; that maybe they were scrapped off from the part that you're now talking about.

As I said, "I'm wondering if the scraped white surfaces are the exposed top of a large mass of ice...."
That is the part you're talking about isn't it; the large flat surfaces at the top of the trenches?
The ones where I said, "That left-handed semi-circular area near the top of the left trench looks more like wetted soil...."
Do you see what I'm trying to describe?
...also....
Do you see the "moved" pebble?

confused


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Originally Posted By: samwik
Until then, isn't speculation fun?

Yes, of course. It's fun, harmless, and healthy - so is building castles in the air, so long as we don't decide to live in them grin


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Hiya rede,

Any thoughts on the wet spot, or the moving pebble?
Do my descriptions make sense, at least; do you think you know to what I'm referring?

Thanks,
~ smile


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Originally Posted By: samwik
Until then, isn't speculation fun?

Mike,
I wasn't speculating on the composition of the disappearing chunks; I agree they're probably ice.

I was speculating on the source of the disappearing chunks; that maybe they were scrapped off from the part that you're now talking about.

As I said, "I'm wondering if the scraped white surfaces are the exposed top of a large mass of ice....?
......>
Do you see the "moved" pebble?

confused


Originally Posted By: Mike Kremer


Hi Samwick,

I'm not sure if I am able to find your 'moved' pebble
And yes, you are right the ice pebbles were probably scraped off the white/ice/wet, part at the top?
But I am pretty sure now that the scraped white surface is ice, with a covering of 'hoarfrost' on the top.
So the ice pebbles melted a lot faster than the hoarfrost? Thats strange.
Also the Suns shadow 'aint moved? Hehehe.
I'm looking at the larger picture, with the 2/3inch, referenced.

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap080621.html




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Updates
NASA has melted some of the pure Earth Ice, it brought to Mars
and has placed some of the Martian soil in this "cup of water"

Preliminary results are:- It has the essential minerals for
growing plants. They mention Asparagus, but not Strawberries.

The soil water mixture will be further analysed in a few days
to see whether soil microbes have sprung to life, or what else has happened......Exciting.

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/080626-phoenix-update.html

Last edited by Mike Kremer; 06/27/08 01:58 AM. Reason: whether

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