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#29135 - 01/10/09 06:29 PM Re: UK Opens its UFO Files [Re: Iztaci]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1249
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
What caught my eye is the following paragraph:

Perhaps the most exciting development for xenologicians in this century is Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem. In 1931 an American mathematician named Kurt Gödel devised a brilliant proof that any system of logic must necessarily either be internally inconsistent or incomplete. Gödel's proof demonstrated for the first time that there exist statements that are unprovable in any logic system (even the Aristotelian system) and that all arithmetic as we know it is at best incomplete, at worst inconsistent. Further, it is logically impossible to construct a single grand "metalogic" capable of subsuming all other modes of logic while remaining consistent itself. So human mathematics–the language of the physical sciences–is incomplete.


In light of certain posts which are determined to idealize the definitions of reality be they scientific or otherwise, where chauvinistic applications of personal opinions and their expressions are focused on degrading information, their sources and the messengers, I find this statement revealing. Especially in light of the praise given to these 25 year old documents by some of those inclined to boast supreme idealism and pride in association to such a personal domain.

Another interesting tidbit was the reference to growing interest in the Seti project. In 1992, the U.S. government funded an operational SETI program, in the form of the NASA "Microwave Observing Program (MOP)". MOP was planned as a long-term effort, performing a "Targeted Search" of 800 specific nearby stars, along with a general "Sky Survey" to scan the sky. MOP was to be performed by radio dishes associated with the NASA Deep Space Network, as well as a 43-meter dish at Green Bank and the big Arecibo dish. The signals were to be analyzed by spectrum analyzers, each with a capacity of 15 million channels. These spectrum analyzers could be ganged to obtain greater capacity. Those used in the Targeted Search had a bandwidth of 1 hertz per channel, while those used in the Sky Survey had a bandwidth of 30 hertz per channel.

MOP drew the attention of the U.S. Congress, where the program was strongly ridiculed, and was canceled a year after its start.

Evidently Humanity is not ready to agree on any definitions of reality when it comes to extraterrestrial life, and I would surmise that such a state of evolutionary development would have to be preceded by some kind of evidence to the idea that terrestrial life could actually survive its own differences of opinion and the animosity of prejudice and pride contained within those personal opinions.

cool
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#29307 - 01/30/09 03:43 AM Re: UK Opens its UFO Files [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Ellis Offline
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Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
Are we not supposing that we could, or would, recognise an alien life form if we saw it? We have pre-conceived ideas of exactly what life entails, especially possible intelligent life. The whole point about alien, as a word or concept has to include that the object is totally unknown. The intention of the 'unknown' objects and reports mentioned in these files is to present them as intelligible to our own understanding, to interpret them, or to provide a framework for us to use to evaluate them. It could be we would never be able to do so, and we may be in fact unable to comprehend both the alienness that they would represent and the fact of their existence --- if they ever visited us.


Edited by Ellis (01/30/09 03:45 AM)
Edit Reason: typo-spelling

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#29405 - 02/09/09 09:08 PM Re: UK Opens its UFO Files [Re: Ellis]
Mike Kremer Offline

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Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 1696
Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: Ellis
Are we not supposing that we could, or would, recognise an alien life form if we saw it? We have pre-conceived ideas of exactly what life entails, especially possible intelligent life. The whole point about alien, as a word or concept has to include that the object is totally unknown. ------------------------------------->--- if they ever visited us.


[quote=Mike Kremer]
Of the many hundreds of UFO's seen by the world every year, the very best are still kept secret.
We have dozens of sightings here in the UK every year. But the very best have still been kept secret from the public.
Even the Tory Opposition leader, David Cameron publicly vowed yesterday that if he becomes Prime Minister he will publish any secret UFO files that exist.
This Greek UFO file kept secret for a year was leaked yesterday.

A UFO seen by three different Pilots from 3 different aircraft
as well as other passengers.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/ufos/article2219187.ece

_________________________
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"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.



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#29588 - 02/24/09 06:39 AM Re: UK Opens its UFO Files [Re: Mike Kremer]
Singh001 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 8
Hi,
UFOs are always my one of the favourite subject to discuss about. The info. provided by you is very useful at least for me.
CSK

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#29961 - 03/23/09 11:21 AM Re: UK Opens its UFO Files [Re: Singh001]
Mike Kremer Offline

Megastar

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 1696
Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: Singh001
Hi,
UFOs are always my one of the favourite subject to discuss about. The info. provided by you is very useful at least for me.
CSK

[quote=Mike Kremer]

The third set of UFO documents to be released by the Ministry of Defence covers the period from 1987 to 1993.

This Item was reported the other day eek

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7954001.stm
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"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.



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#31204 - 07/19/09 01:04 PM Re: UK Opens its UFO Files [Re: odin1]
Andist Offline
Member

Registered: 09/03/06
Posts: 78
Loc: London
I like the one about the man being too old and infirm for the aliens purposes.

The only reason that I can think of for governments keeping quiet about this stuff is that maybe they get technological ideas from aliens?

When I was doing electroncs, many years ago, we had an old guy teaching us called Bob. Bob, who had worked for the british Ministry Of Defence told us that military technoligy was about twenty years ahead of commercial technology but that that gap was closing.

Maybe commercial electronics has caught up with MOD stuff but when it comes to aircraft, Harrier Jump jets took many years to rival and arguably still have not been rivaled.
This is not British patriotism at work here BTW, I think that us brits are one of the least patriotic nations on earth. What is there to be proud of? Starting loads of wars or helping America start a few other wars?
_________________________
"The written word is a lie"

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#31221 - 07/20/09 12:58 PM Re: UK Opens its UFO Files [Re: Andist]
TheFallibleFiend Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 1940
Loc: http://thefalliblefiend.blogsp...
I can think of other reasons that governments might keep quiet about it - because some very few of them are listening to what actual scientists say on the subject. It's vastly more likely that people who have seen UFOs are reporting on things that they were confused about or did not understand. Eye-witness testimony is notoriously unreliable.

Vision happens not in the eyes, but in the brain. Much of what we see is what we expect to see. It's one of the reasons that science exists in its current form. I put together and exhibit for students that helps to illustrate the brain-vision connection and use some of these types of illusions to illustrate:


http://www.popularscience.co.uk/features/feat16.htm

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/06/24/the-blue-and-the-green/

http://www.youramazingbrain.org/supersenses/wheels.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pK0BQ9CUHk


Know-nothing obscurantists are quick to pounce on people's misunderstandings with completely insane "explanations" which they insist are just as likely - or even VASTLY MORE likely than prosaic explanations.



Edited by TheFallibleFiend (07/20/09 01:06 PM)

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#37659 - 03/03/11 03:32 PM Re: UK Opens its UFO Files [Re: Mike Kremer]
Mike Kremer Offline

Megastar

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 1696
Loc: London UK

The UK Opens even More of its UFO Files
(March 2nd 20011)

The British goverment has released yet another block of UK UFO sightings yesterday.
These follow on from the last release, and contain a batch of 35 files, containing 35,000 pages of sightings, reports, and photographs from the five years up to 2005.

http://ufos.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
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"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.



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#38191 - 04/21/11 10:03 PM Re: UK Opens its UFO Files [Re: Mike Kremer]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
I clicked on one of the "released" file links and it cost
3.5 BP to release it enough to read it.

I think that released is the wrong word to use.

thats 119.00 BP if all 34 cost 3.5 BP each , is the British Government starting up a publishing company?

or maybe there is another site that actually releases the files for free.

as in set them free for anyone to freely read without any associated cost.

or does the British Government plan on paying their peoples
back for the cost of generating the files?





_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#38383 - 05/12/11 01:48 AM Re: UK Opens its UFO Files [Re: paul]
kallog Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 1100
Originally Posted By: paul
Government starting up a publishing company?

They do this with some of the war and census records too. I think it may be to cover the cost of scanning/transcribing all those old paper documents. Users pays is better than innocent taxpayers paying for some silly UFO stories.

But hey, it seems like reports of ball lightening faded away somewhat before UFO reports started to appear. I guess thunderstorms just aren't what they used to be.

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#38384 - 05/12/11 02:02 AM Re: UK Opens its UFO Files [Re: kallog]
Bill Offline
Megastar

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1858
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
I think that ball lightning in its many forms has been much reduced, at least in the United States. I was raised in SouthEastern Oklahoma in the late 1930s. I have heard older people talking about severe thunder storms with St. Elmo's Fire dripping from fences and power lines, and ball lightning flying around. In fact I have been told that when I was very young I was chased across the porch by a ball of lightning. It grounded out on a metal wash tub hanging on the wall. But I have never seen any manifestations of that sort that I can recall. I suspect that the reduction in such displays has to do with the number of power lines that we now have. The power poles all have grounds from the top, and I suspect that they drain some of the charge from the clouds so they don't get quite strong enough to create the strange displays. Of course this is purely conjecture on my part since I don't really know how they form, and what it takes to disrupt them.

Bill Gill
_________________________
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.

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#38385 - 05/12/11 02:48 AM Re: UK Opens its UFO Files [Re: Bill]
kallog Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 1100
Originally Posted By: Bill
that the reduction in such displays has to do with the number of power lines that we now have. The power

Yea it could be some change in the environment like that. Many of the reports seem to be from outside of cities.

But there must be cases of ball lightening where people have claimed it was a UFO (or even a flying saucer) and nobody took them seriously.

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#38389 - 05/12/11 02:18 PM Re: UK Opens its UFO Files [Re: kallog]
Bill Offline
Megastar

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1858
Loc: Oklahoma, USA
I have no doubt that some UFO sightings could have been ball lightning. Of course there was a long time when scientists didn't believe in ball lightning. Or at least that is what I have heard. The report may of course have been what a few scientists said, not what the general consensus would have been. Taking the words of a few and attaching them to the many is a common thing to happen.

But as far as I know there still isn't much of a consensus as to how ball lightning and St. Elmo's fire work. I presume it is some kind of a plasma display, but how it manages to stay together is a pretty good question.

Bill Gill
_________________________
C is not the speed of light in a vacuum.
C is the universal speed limit.

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#47941 - 02/09/13 04:17 AM Re: UK Opens its UFO Files [Re: Mike Kremer]
Mark Holland Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 02/06/13
Posts: 3
Unexplained aerial observations have been reported throughout history. Some were undoubtedly astronomical in nature: comets, bright meteors, one or more of the five planets that can be seen with the naked eye, planetary conjunctions, or atmospheric optical phenomena such as parhelia and lenticular clouds. An example is Halley's Comet, which was recorded first by Chinese astronomers in 240 BC and possibly as early as 467 BC. Such sightings throughout history often were treated as supernatural portents, angels, or other religious omens. Some current-day UFO researchers have noticed similarities between some religious symbols in medieval paintings and UFO reports[21] though the canonical and symbolic character of such images is documented by art historians placing more conventional religious interpretations on such images.[22]

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#49188 - 07/16/13 07:29 PM Re: UK Opens its UFO Files [Re: Mike Kremer]
Mike Kremer Offline

Megastar

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 1696
Loc: London UK
Well here are the last Tranche and final collection of the
British Goverments UFO files. Just released two weeks ago
in June 2013.
These are all the latest files from between 2007 and 2009.
(Yes, it took the UK Goverment six years to release them, but
sadly, there are no more to come)
They include the ones taken at Stonhehenge in 2009.
The M.O.D closed down the UFO hotline in 2009, giving the excuse that to continue UFO Investigations would an inappropriate use of Defense resources.


First, it is best to read the Highlights Guide showing you
specific details of 'How to Navigate through the Release'

http://filestore.nationalarchives.gov.uk/pdfs/ufos/ufo-highlights-guide-2013.pdf


Then go on to read the latest and final UFO releases below.

http://ufos.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
_________________________
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"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.



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#49335 - 07/29/13 05:12 PM Re: UK Opens its UFO Files [Re: Mike Kremer]
paul Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4135
Mike

This thread was started in May of 2008.

after the 5 years has passed was there anything noticed
in the released files that could be said to have had any
importance?

do we now have any proof of UFO's?

a piece of a UFO or something solid that can be put on display?

what have you found in these files that you believe shows
that UFO's are real?
_________________________
3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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