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#24790 02/06/08 02:38 AM
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The world's rubbish dump: a garbage tip that stretches from Hawaii to Japan

The world's rubbish dump: a garbage tip that stretches from Hawaii to Japan
A vast expanse of debris – in effect the world's largest rubbish dump – is held in place by swirling underwater currents. This drifting "soup" stretches from about 500 nautical miles off the Californian coast, across the northern Pacific, past Hawaii and almost as far as Japan
The sea of rubbish is translucent and lies just below the water's surface, so it is not detectable in satellite photographs. "You only see it from the bows of ships,"

Oceanographers from the University of Hawaii are going to check it out.

http://www.independent.co.uk/environment...pan-778016.html

***Thoughts
Hardly believable




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"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.


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I see a fortune just waiting to be recycled.

instead of catching fish , you could use one specialy designed ship to catch the plastics.

a converted navy/marine LHA could sink itself in there and fill the well deck with this plastic , then while out at sea it could either compact the plastics and store them on the hangar deck or transport them to hawaii for processing , or it could actually process the plastics onboard.

the LHA has a flight deck that could be used to transport the compacted or processed plastics to shore.

A floating city that just sits there recycling the plastics.

I think the U.S. has a spare LHA to donate for this purpose.
USS Saipan (LHA 2)
- decommissioned -

A LHA the Saipan

the U.S. DOES NOT HAVE ANY RAW PLASTICS RESOURCES and here is a never ending supply !!!

National security speaking , not having raw plastics resources is not a good thing.







Last edited by paul; 02/06/08 06:48 PM.

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Woops ... looks like the saipan has already been used for target practice...

and has already been stripped of any armament , which tells me that the price should be reasonable --> scrap iorn.

just weld up the holes , and tow it out to the plastic mines.
it should stay there because of the vortex caused by the currents.

you wouldnt need to fully surface the ship , you could partially sink it , as the plastics would voluntarily float in as you scoop them up from within the well deck.

and you could fill most of the fuel voids with styrofoam to ensure that it wont sink.

you would want to leave a couple of the av gas and mo gas voids for the helicopters and fixed wing aircraft and utility vessels for transportation.

you could probably even get a voluntary crew for such a thing.

think about it ... actually using military equipment to do something good.

That would really be a change wouldnt it !!!

Yes we can do it.

Yes we can.


Last edited by paul; 02/06/08 07:43 PM.

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http://www.scienceagogo.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=25618#Post25618
Originally Posted By: bfp
hey has anyone heard of the Great Pacific Garbage Patch in the middle of the pacific ocean? garbage floating in the middle of the pacific covering an area which fluctuates between the size of the state of Texas and the entire US. embarrassing hahaha


Garbage Vortex, by C. L. Vaughn (on my Kindle) smile
Originally Posted By: Vaughn
...invasive species...can travel thousands of miles... invade fragile corals... local marine vegetation....
....it's believed there are about 100 million tons of plastic circulating in the N. Pacific (2.5% of all plastic made since 1950!).
....photodegradation... brittle... smaller pieces... end up in the food chain. Plastics can act like a sponge and pick up all of the dangerous man-made chemicals like PCB's, DDT and hydrocarbons....
...the chemicals go into the plastics, the plastics go into the fish, and they end up on our plates for dinner.
Trawling... may help for larger items, but the time and cost (energy) of an operation like that just isn't feasible.


Much of this stuff ends up looking like a jellyfish and being eaten by fish, turtles, and birds; or worse, seen as plankton to be eaten by the grazers. Beyond that it breaks down to microscopic size and will be incorporated biogeochemically, creating a geologic layer for the future to view.
I've heard it is rare to find a marine animal (all birds included) without plastic in it's stomach.
frown


Pyrolysis creates reduced carbon! ...Time for the next step in our evolutionary symbiosis with fire.
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if anyone is every gonna do anything about it, i think that the stuff is going to be processed offshore, in the middle of nowhere ...so that no one sees them make the problem bigger through resin runoff and toxic waste pollution lol


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I think that someone will do something about it once they realize a profit can be made from the recycling and maybe a grant could be given to them by the U.N. I wonder if Green Peace knows about this?

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Quote:
someone will do something about it once they realize a profit can be made


thats the answer.

thats the big answer to almost everything.

if a profit can be made using solar energy or any other type of energy then the rules will bend in favor of those types of energy and everyone will be satisfied.

as it stands the governments make too much money everytime you fill up your tank , so they arent really going to try to do anything about the problems in the world as long as the problems are profitting them or not costing them.

or not costing them more than they are proffiting from the problems.

it cost us nothing to just not see it sitting out there in the oceans , and it would not profit our government to clean it up.

unless

Quote:
someone does something about it once they realize a profit can be made



Last edited by paul; 04/26/08 02:58 AM.

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Quote:
if anyone is every gonna do anything about it, i think that the stuff is going to be processed offshore, in the middle of nowhere ...so that no one sees them make the problem bigger through resin runoff and toxic waste pollution lol


plastic could be used to fuel the whole opperation.

plastic burns.

if the plastic were treated as nuclear waste is sometimes treated and a plasma waste disposal device were used to ( clean )
the toxins that are produced by the burning.

then the many forms of pollution that has absorbed into the plastics could be anialated on the spot in the burn chamber
of the boiler.

you could package the grant as a ongoing project to be manned by students.

the government might even throw in a ship or two.

P.S.

the plastics can be burned without making any pollution at all.

the liquid plastic can be ran through a centrifuge to seperate the highly contaminated plastic from the not so contaminated plastic.

then the highly contaminated plastic can be used to fuel the boiler that fuels the whole opperation.

hint:

if no smoke escapes then there can be no pollution escaping.

a profit might be in the form of a resource.
you might focus on the plastics as a resource.





Last edited by paul; 04/26/08 03:32 AM.

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plasma arc waste disposal sounds like its something special when its really just a waste incinerator that uses massive amounts of power... its not better, and any time you burn something you are creating co2; pollution. i doubt that you could capture the co2 and do something useful with it, without discovering some kind new technology; people are actually working on this right now.


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Quote:
and any time you burn something you are creating co2;


picture in your mind ... a container , with a bottle of compressed gas and a bottle of compressed air inside the container.

now picture a remote ingition system outside the container that creates a spark to ignite the mixture.

the container is a sealed container that will not allow the co2 to escape.

the gas would all burn up and the co2 would still be in the container , right?

of course it would.

all you need is the air pumped into the container to burn the melted plastic.

dont forget to remove the excess heat through a exchange
system to prevent the pressure build up that would overcome the stress limits of the container.

if the opperation does not require that much electricity from the heat generated then you could exchange the excess heat into the ocean itself through heat transfer.

the plasma arc is arcing inside the container to remove the
toxic material.


Quote:
i doubt that you could capture the co2 and do something useful with it,


well if you cant figure out anything usefull to do with it or a way to profit from it , then perhaps the raw plastic you have recycled will cover the storage of the co2.

I wouldnt sudgest that you in particular try this or anyone else as you (big fat pig) dont understand heat and pressures according to your denial of heat being generated by friction.

so please study your physics and focus on the math , leave the theory behind where it belongs.




Last edited by paul; 04/26/08 03:22 PM.

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Quote:
well if you cant figure out anything usefull to do with it or a way to profit from it , then perhaps the raw plastic you have recycled will cover the storage of the co2.

I wouldnt sudgest that you in particular try this or anyone else as you (big fat pig) dont understand heat and pressures according to your denial of heat being generated by friction.

so please study your physics and focus on the math , leave the theory behind where it belongs.

paul when did i deny that friction generated heat? and paul, why are you so hostile toward me? what have i done to you? again paul, i wont engage in a pissing match with you because its a waste of time. i'd like it if you toned down on the insults though. why do you always turn to insulting people's intelligence when they disagree with you?


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Paul said in an above post that Governments make too much money every time someone fills up their tank, and to this point I have to disagree. I think it is the Oil Companies which are making too much money every time we fill up our tanks, and I think the Governments should do something about that, but I totally agree with the idea of taxes being imposed on items like the fuel we burn because they pay for many of the things we take for granted on the roads. If any relief should happen I would hope it come in the form of not having to pay income taxes, which I believe the Supreme Court had ruled as unconstitutional but will remain until someone develops a better idea.

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Big Fat Pig

here is the link where you first insulted me to a degree...

the link to your insults...first I might add

Quote:
i'm sorry that i choose to trust those with credentials rather than the 'basement geniuses.' gullibility is inversely proportional to intelligence. there will always be some guy who believes that he has the 'theory of everything' (and usually has temporal lobe epilepsy or something of the sort) and believes that the laws of nature can be broken... i'm sorry that you can't make free energy, many have tried and all have failed, i'm not going to start quoting thermodynamics because it will be a waste of time. if you want to try and break the laws of thermodynamics, go ahead and try, but please learn them first, go to university/college. im sorry if i sound mean but this is the way life is. when you go to argue about science without understanding it on the same level which the opposition does, you sound like an annoying child.


if you cant handle the heat then stay out of the kitchen...

and dont get whinny , when you start something going around that comes back around. cool








Last edited by paul; 04/27/08 02:48 AM.

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Rallem

the U.S. government gets about 0.18 cents on each gallon of gassoline sold.

in my state the combined federal and state taxes are apx 0.48 cents per gallon it is lower in some states and higher in others.

link to the excerpt below

Quote:
the gasoline taxes in the various states range from 10 cents to 33 cents, with an average about 22 cents per U.S. gallon (5.8¢/L), making the average combined tax on gasoline 42¢/gal. Unlike most goods in the U.S., the price displayed includes all taxes, rather than being calculated at the point of purchase.

The head of the U.S. Dept. of Transportation stated on 15 August 2007 that about 60% of federal gas taxes are used for highway and bridge construction. The remaining 40% goes to other, unrelated uses

the Federal Government wants to raise its taxes per gallon to around 0.40 cents

that would be a grand total of apx 0.70 cents per gallon sold.

Now if this is not a barrier to the use of alternate energy via the denial of funding from the Government then Im wrong.

Quote:
Consumption (Millions of barrels per day): Top 20 Countries
United States: 19.993


United states gasoline consumption per day !!! 19.9 million barrels

there are apx 28 gallons of gasoline in a barrel.
and a barrel is apx is 42 gallons...

28 gallons of gassoline in a 42 gallon barrell of oil

19.9 million barrels X 28 gallons X 365 days...

203,378,000,000 gallons each year.

0.48 cents X 203,378,000,000 = 97,621,440,000

now that results in 97 billion dollars anually.

mobile oil only reported a 39.5 billion dollar profit for 2006...

Quote:
HOUSTON (AP) - Oil giant Exxon Mobil Corp. on Thursday posted the largest annual profit by a U.S. company—$39.5 billion—even as earnings for the last quarter of 2006 declined 4 percent.


39.5 billion profit in 2006...

Granted we need taxes to run this country , but with this type of income from the sale of gassoline , how can we ever stop using gasoline... we are basicaly slaved by the taxes imposed.

a across the board tax for infrastructure would allow for more tax income and the funding of alternate energy related programs that currently only allow a project that has just a slight energy savings to recieve any funding or help in any way...

some people say that because they do not drive alot they should not pay as much as others do.

even if you never left your house at all , you still use the roads , the food you eat , the clothes you wear , everything you can think of uses the roads and bridges.

everyone should pay this tax.
not just those who drive.



Last edited by paul; 04/27/08 04:23 AM.

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it really wasn't my intention to start a feud, paul, im sorry that i was rude to you.


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Big Fat Pig

And I too am sorry for my insults to you.

we can get alot more accomplished without the interludes of ridicule and insult.

they only hide or cover up the original disscussion.

Thank you for your appology and Please accept mine.

It takes a strong person to appoligise as you have.








Last edited by paul; 04/27/08 03:46 AM.

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Hey, you guys, this looks like severe case of humility and brotherly love. Maybe we can reach Type I civ after all.

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Originally Posted By: paul
Rallem

the U.S. government gets about 0.18 cents on each gallon of gassoline sold.

in my state the combined federal and state taxes are apx 0.48 cents per gallon it is lower in some states and higher in others.

link to the excerpt below

Quote:
the gasoline taxes in the various states range from 10 cents to 33 cents, with an average about 22 cents per U.S. gallon (5.8¢/L), making the average combined tax on gasoline 42¢/gal. Unlike most goods in the U.S., the price displayed includes all taxes, rather than being calculated at the point of purchase.

The head of the U.S. Dept. of Transportation stated on 15 August 2007 that about 60% of federal gas taxes are used for highway and bridge construction. The remaining 40% goes to other, unrelated uses

the Federal Government wants to raise its taxes per gallon to around 0.40 cents

that would be a grand total of apx 0.70 cents per gallon sold.

Now if this is not a barrier to the use of alternate energy via the denial of funding from the Government then Im wrong.

Quote:
Consumption (Millions of barrels per day): Top 20 Countries
United States: 19.993


United states gasoline consumption per day !!! 19.9 million barrels

there are apx 28 gallons of gasoline in a barrel.
and a barrel is apx is 42 gallons...

28 gallons of gassoline in a 42 gallon barrell of oil

19.9 million barrels X 28 gallons X 365 days...

203,378,000,000 gallons each year.

0.48 cents X 203,378,000,000 = 97,621,440,000

now that results in 97 billion dollars anually.

mobile oil only reported a 39.5 billion dollar profit for 2006...

Quote:
HOUSTON (AP) - Oil giant Exxon Mobil Corp. on Thursday posted the largest annual profit by a U.S. company—$39.5 billion—even as earnings for the last quarter of 2006 declined 4 percent.


39.5 billion profit in 2006...

Granted we need taxes to run this country , but with this type of income from the sale of gassoline , how can we ever stop using gasoline... we are basicaly slaved by the taxes imposed.

a across the board tax for infrastructure would allow for more tax income and the funding of alternate energy related programs that currently only allow a project that has just a slight energy savings to recieve any funding or help in any way...

some people say that because they do not drive alot they should not pay as much as others do.

even if you never left your house at all , you still use the roads , the food you eat , the clothes you wear , everything you can think of uses the roads and bridges.

everyone should pay this tax.
not just those who drive.




That is all fine and good Paul, but I still disagree about the Government getting too rich off the fuel taxes because it goes back to services on the road and for transportation. I say that if we get any form of tax relief from the Government it should be in the form of not havoing to pay an income tax.


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