Welcome to
Science a GoGo's
Discussion Forums
Please keep your postings on-topic or they will be moved to a galaxy far, far away.
Your use of this forum indicates your agreement to our terms of use.
So that we remain spam-free, please note that all posts by new users are moderated.


The Forums
General Science Talk        Not-Quite-Science        Climate Change Discussion        Physics Forum        Science Fiction

Who's Online Now
0 members (), 181 guests, and 2 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Posts
Top Posters(30 Days)
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 34 of 120 1 2 32 33 34 35 36 119 120
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,311
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,311
ABOUT KNOWLEDGE, GUILT AND HAVING A CONSCIENCE
==============================================
In my opinion, as long as we avoid going to extremes and sincerely intend to take positive actions to improve things, a guilty conscience is a sign of a healthy spirit. When I have a guilty conscience I don't blame my conscience; it is just doing it job. People without consciences are psychopaths (people with sick minds), and what I call pneumatopaths (people with sick spirits).


G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org
.
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
I mostly agree. The point being, Guilt is a product of a psyche trying to find sense and meaning in an irrational, shattered world of News. In a way, guilt is a by-product of language, which attempts to represent reality with concepts, and of course these concepts of language barely touch the underlying reality which they try to describe. Contamination of language is one thing, but our personal brains/psyches associate different things and ideas to words and concepts, thus there is confusion, thus there is disagreement, thus there is judgement and guilt. Eckhart Tolle's "Power of Now" digs the reeking graves of guilt so deep i hope everyone reads it. Guilt may have evolutionary purposes, but as individuals it is something we must overcome.

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,311
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,311
Anon, you say, "I mostly agree."

With what?

BTW, my daughter gave me a copy of, "Eckhart Tolle's "Power of Now."

You say it, "...digs the reeking graves of guilt so deep i hope everyone reads it. Guilt may have evolutionary purposes, but as individuals it is something we must overcome."

Give us a bit of a summary, please!


G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
I just found this today. It caught my eye because I am a scientist and I follow a spiritual/mystic path. I'm very interested in both topics. There was a moment of excitement when I saw the title: Phil.of all Religions, as I love a good, spirited and passionate discussion.
Then I read a page or two of posts, OK, 4 pages, in the interest of accuracy.
I think you might want to change the title.
It's misleading.

Namaste.

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 136
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 136
Hello Namaste,

What would you recommend? And misleading in what way?
Just curious.

best regards,
odin1


People will forgive you for anything -but being right !
odin1


Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,311
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,311
Namaste. I understand that this is the Sanskrit word for: I bow to you, honour you, and respect you. In other words, the god in me looks for the god in you.
BTW, at http://www.pathwayschurch.ca the church I attend, we use 'namaste', every time we meet.


G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,311
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,311
LOOK AT THAT!!! 271,000, and more, clicks on this thread. Amazing. I wonder how much of this is spam?

Lurkers, fear not! Take part and give us a grunt, even if you do so anonymously. Tell us, what is the appeal of this topic? Your opinion is of real value.

Last edited by Revlgking; 06/09/08 01:33 AM.

G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,164
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,164
Originally Posted By: Anonymous
I just found this today. It caught my eye because I am a scientist and I follow a spiritual/mystic path. I'm very interested in both topics. There was a moment of excitement when I saw the title: Phil.of all Religions, as I love a good, spirited and passionate discussion.
Then I read a page or two of posts, OK, 4 pages, in the interest of accuracy.
I think you might want to change the title.
It's misleading.

Namaste.


Someone should create a "Table of Contents" for this thread.
It doesn't have to be fancy, formal, or even consistent.
Just look, for example, at:
http://hypography.com/forums/terra-preta/14448-contents-t-p-parent-thread-started.html

Some of the great evolution of wisdom, created at certain times over the course of this thread, will be easily missed by just reading a few pages here or there.

Hint, hint, Revl.

Cheers,
~SA


Pyrolysis creates reduced carbon! ...Time for the next step in our evolutionary symbiosis with fire.
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,311
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,311
Originally Posted By: samwik
[quote=Anonymous]
... Some of the great evolution of wisdom, created at certain times over the course of this thread, will be easily missed by just reading a few pages here or there.

Hint, hint, Revl.~SA
What do you mean by the., "hint..."
Sam?


G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,164
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,164
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Originally Posted By: samwik
Hint, hint, Revl.~SA
What do you mean by the., "hint..."
Sam?


confused
Someone (hint) should create a "Table of Contents" for this thread.
? smile


Pyrolysis creates reduced carbon! ...Time for the next step in our evolutionary symbiosis with fire.
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,490
E
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
E
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,490
How about it Rev? A Table of Contents!

And sincere congratulations to you for
a) starting this thread
b) sticking with it (in spite of types like me)
c) and maintaining your own unwavering commitment throughout.

Here's to your NEXT 217,000!


A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Guilt is simply the result of us doing something that is bad for us or for someone else. There is no difference. We share neurotransmitters with each other constantly on the most basic level and following a higher way of thinking, we all occupy this dimension so everything we do affects everything else: a single thread- the emotions you feel produce hormones that wash off your skin and go into the ground and into the plants that grow and we eat.

To feel guilt is to mourn for this negative affect we have produced.

Guilt is not a product of evolution. Evolution theory is obsolete. Every 200,000 years the magenetic poles flip and everything is wiped out. You think that in this short chapter of geological life man has developed guilt as a means of survival?
If anything wouldn't man lose the instinct for guilt?

Evolution is just a ridiculous concept made up to convince man that they should turn against each other and fight like wild dogs.

The strength of future generations is based on love- the strength of the family unit, of social ties, of letting each other eat (many people still haven't learnt to share well into their 50's), of mental and physical stability independant of artificial chemical poisoning. A man in love does not need caffeine to stay awake or weed to relax. And his children will benefit. The frequencies produced by human empathy and love can override any form of depression or agression. The magnetic field that we live within is very senstive to human emotions and negative emotions feed this '2012' phenomenena.

Guilt is the voice telling us to fix up- for your own benefit and for that of everything and everyone else. We conduct the light of life and to ignore a terrible feeling means that we only do so to our own detriment.

Who is this fool telling people to overcome guilt? Why not overcome the rubbish we have to deal with that makes us feel guilt then there is the beginning of a solution. Seems like this person doesn't really care about mankind at all. Anyone who tell you to ignore it when you feel bad usually has their own agenda or is the person making you feel that way in the first place.

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Very true!

God helps those who he wills. All of us who feel guilt are blessed because we have been given the intelligence to understand the consequence of our actions. This is a blessing because we are shown mercy in that we are given the choice whether to change our course of action or remain on a path of destruction.

Seems pretty obviously but how many people do something that feels so wrong but only to get used to it even though it hurts them and those they love? The guilt they lose is the connection they had with with themselves.

If a person has no sense of guilt then he is truly of those lost.

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,940
T
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
T
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,940
Evolution Theory is not obsolete. It is on firmer footing now than it ever has ever been.

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,311
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,311
Anons, one and two, I repeat what I said about conscience, above: In my opinion, as long as we avoid going to extremes and we sincerely intend to take positive actions to improve things, a guilty conscience is a sign of a healthy spirit. When I have a guilty conscience I don't blame my conscience; it is just doing it job. People without consciences are psychopaths (people with sick minds), and what I call pneumatopaths (people with sick spirits)'
==============================================================
Are you both born-again Christians? If so: Why does an all-powerful, loving and personal God allow so much horrible and, IMO, meaningless pain and suffering?
Keep in mind: I am not talking about the kind of acceptable pain which produces gain.
=====================
Sam and Ellis, about a table of contents. If I knew where to start--any suggestions?--I would.

Last edited by Revlgking; 06/09/08 06:00 PM.

G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,311
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,311
I wonder why there has been no response from Anons 2?
Why does an all powerful, all loving and personal God allow so much horrible and, IMO, meaningless pain and suffering?

I would love to have a dialogue about this.


Last edited by Revlgking; 06/16/08 05:22 PM.
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Guilt is the attachment to dogma. Social standards based on being separate from God, or the experience of not being united with God.
"I and my Father are one" was not an iconic statement made by Jesus from a belief but from the actual experience of communion with omnipresence and omniscience.
If you were to feel guilty about something and then later were to discover that something was perfectly played out so that you could better understand the nature of yourself and reality you wouldn't feel guilty.

There's a book written by Neale Walsh called
The Little Soul and the Sun. It describes the pre-incarnation experience of two angels who are going to earth to experience what feels like to be violated by someone. One is to be a thief and the other a victim to the thief. In their conversation they agree to remember each other and to not take it personally.
The premise of the story is that in order to know light one must experience darkness, and the idea that Earthlife is the experience of creation, and perceptions of creation, based on levels of understanding. Full understanding comes with objectivity and people who suffer with conscious guilt are those who live in the hell of ignorance which is the ignorance of the omnipresent, omniscient mind, or the mind that is fully in contact with the source of all of creation and all of human interaction.
A guilty mind is often at odds with reality and as such acts in desperation, due to the fact that sufficient guidance was not present when one was learning about themselves and their relationship with the world.

Basically we are taught by parents and peers who learn from books that are generally ten years old, and by the current media which is based on sensationalism and dramatizes the success of humanity as wealth in forms of money, sex, position, age, etc.
When someone grows up without a true understanding of reality their system of self measure leaves them struggling for a point of reference that keeps withdrawing and changing before their eyes. Trying to live up to our parents or our peers expectations implies we are guilty before we can be without guilt.
This is the same twisted scenario created by ignorant interpretations of religion where we are born in sin and have to prove ourselves worthy before a God that will,(If we prove ourselves) absolve us from our predetermined inferiority and lack of self worth.
Guilt is a misunderstanding, and those who hold people in contempt have no real compassion, for they do not see God in everyone but those they favor so that their private universe can remain intact.

There is no such thing as someone without a conscience. There are different levels of experience and those who decide how consciousness should be according to their levels of consciousness. But everyone plays a part on Earth and there are no such things as victims unless you do not experience God or yourself in everything.

The Earth is more akin to a giant classroom with every possible course being taught according to the needs of human experience.
A friend once said life is like an arrow, and it first must be drawn back before it can be propelled forward.
This is not a rule but it is also not a false analogy. If we remain victims to creation we always will be separate from it and will fear it. There is a bigger part of ourselves that lives without the clothing of personality and individuality and some are awakening to it quicker than others. Those that are slow to come around are the most dogmatic about their beliefs in their individuality,their accomplishments, and their judgment towards others.

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,490
E
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
E
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,490
Anon wrote:

"But everyone plays a part on Earth and there are no such things as victims unless you do not experience God or yourself in everything."

Please could you explain this statement in more detail?

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
The manifestation of experience is initiated by desire. Desire comes in many forms, mostly we recognize it in the ideas of wants and needs. However wants and needs are not the only energies that create. Subconscious thought patterns create ripple effects in the fabric of time and space and as such have just as much of an impact on our creation as one pointed desire to achieve a goal.

We don't consciously realize that we are the cause of reality due to the beliefs and levels of perception, instead it is easier for us to believe it is the cause of some God or some random occurrence, but the universe is too well organized and structured to be an accident or a random occurrence. And tho the majority of humanity believes in God it doesn't universally accept a God that rules over humanity as omnipresent, in that it would exist in everything. Omniscient and create a mistake such as a human life that is flawed or created in sin from the lack if planning on God's part. Nor do we intuitively accept a God that is Omnipotent but needs to be worshiped.

God is absolute in nature and it is not something that can be Isolated in form or definition tho it is present in form and definition. We are a reflection rather than a part of the ongoing expansion of Gods consciousness.

We can use simple examples. Duality is necessary to create experience. Light doesn't exist without its opposite which is darkness, or light and heavy determining a measure of weight. Black and white are a kind of opposite and good cannot be determined without evil. Without a negative a positive cannot be a positive, it can only be.
Humanity exists with the potential to feel and experience both Good and evil, to do so good and evil would have to exist for those senses to be activated. If the mechanisms of perception weren't there, then whatever was created wouldn't be perceived.

A greater wonder is that with the mechanism in place all it takes is a vibratory activation of thought to create a ripple effect in the fabric to make experience. Just as sound is generated in waves that travel through both air and a vacuum, so do thought patterns.
Where thought patterns are received is in intuition, if amplified it is in the manifestation of activity. With 6 billion transmitters the resonance of belief in reality creates a pretty solid feeling stage of events.
Within that collective are all the dreams, hopes, anxieties or stresses of humanity and they directly affect everything from personal experience in growth and expansion of consciousness in evolution, to something as far removed from the idea of control as the weather.
The mind is a translator of energetic thought waves and a receiver of the impressions created by those waves.
While the mind is actively engaged in beliefs at a gross level of reality it sees itself as separate from it all in its relationship to personal creation and living in random occurrences that it has little or no control over. The ego is the image of collected experience and beliefs. Like a computer that is programmed it functions according to the software it has installed. And like a computer that functions at a basic level it has little awareness of its creator or its programmer.

When one rises above the ego, consciousness reflects a much larger image of itself that goes beyond the limitations of the earthbound experiences that are the ego and its construct.

It is not that much different than the Matrix movie only the creator of the matrix is not a machine with a need to survive but an omnipresent consciousness that by its very nature reflects itself in the images of human endeavor and beliefs in limitation as easily as it reflects itself in the miracles we think are commonplace but once believed impossible in the past.

The earth is like a stage and everyone is an actor. The human parts are like a change of clothes and the consciousness within humanity lives long after one act ends and another begins.
The generations of superconscious masters have always guided humanity towards self realization, while the preachers of religion have tried to make the ego feel better about its place in limitation and individuality and to reassure itself that there is some kind of Loving order to things. But the consciousness of Churchianity is based on ego love, or love based on good feelings or conscience of agreement, rather than unconditional love that supports the child regardless of its choices.

In every war, where each side claims God is on their side, it would be hard to imagine a God that could take a side, but it is even more difficult to imagine that God is actually on both sides, giving each side what they want in the choice to fight for their difference of opinion and their beliefs in righteousness. But it is literally true. God will give you what you want in that regard, the ability to make a choice and to act according to your hearts desire. Never mind if you heart is buried in hate and fear, if it takes you a thousand lifetimes to get through the crap surrounding your true nature and to expand beyond such trivial pursuits, so be it.

It isn't difficult to experience the nature of consciousness or the unity of consciousness that exists in humanity and God. One merely needs to find a useful tool to take the mind inward and beyond the limited boundaries of the attached sensory ideals.
No human is born with the intention to be bad, for the idea isn't even programmed into the mind or the psyche, yet the body is well equipped to accept the programming and even to act out the ideas of duality that are bad and Good.
Basically the newborn is wide open and begins to accept what it is told in relationship to who or what it is and who and what has control over its welfare until that authority releases it into its own cognizant being.
Based on which kind of programs it has accepted, it experiences its self worth and relationship to the world. Remove the programming and the mind lives in the perfect now, without any influence of the past or the projections of some possible future.

We all experience the mood changes in those who we are close to.
If someone we love comes home and has a good or bad day they radiate a vibrational resonance that we are intuitively connected to.
In the cellular makeup of the human body each cell has a way of communicating using neuropeptides and receiver sites. The body is literally a thinking machine with every cell communicating every thought and feeling. The human psyche is tuned into this in ones own self and is capable of sensing it in others. We are no different than the cells in a body only on a level that is much greater and our conscious awareness is much more expanded in that we can become self aware and even think independently.
This is how we are made in the image of God. We can become self aware of ourselves. Based on where we draw the boundary line is where ego limits the self. If one allows themselves to drift beyond the boundaries of ego the absolute God is experienced in the reflection of infinity.

Some have literally been changed after an experience of this. Abraham Maslow who was a psychologist did many studies on this kind of experience and called it a peak experience. It is the kind of experience one has when reaching the top of a mountain after a climb, or standing at the shore of an ocean, or giving birth, or even jogging. The mind temporarily leaves behind the programs of the ego and experiences a potential that is not contained by fear based programs of limitation.
When one develops this into a permanent state of awareness God or the absolute expanse of potential exists in everything and the one who experiences this exists in unison with it, in everything and in everyone at the same time.

For those that have experienced near death experiences and have felt their life unfold before them, the ego death is similar and a rebirth of conscious awareness leaves one at a new level of experiencing life. One begins to feel and experience life unfold from ones own ideas and beliefs, the reflection of energies is not unlike dropping pebbles into a clear pond. Each pebble is like a thought and as it ripples outward and reaches the shore of manifest reality it becomes a pure reflection of that desire or thought.

The typical waking state mind thinks some 60,000 thoughts per day according to study by Stanford University. Instead of individual thoughts being dropped into the pond coherently the mind that is preoccupied with past and future events, self worth and stress from judgment and fear, is dropping handfuls of pebbles into the pond creating chop with some thoughts canceling other thoughts out. Subconscious programs of negativity often clash with new positive ideas making it difficult to maintain a particular thought or desire. But when the mind is stilled into this "Peak Experience" as Maslow termed it, the mind becomes perfectly coherent. This has even been measured by attaching the leads of an electroencephalograph to the parietal and occipital lobes of the brain. During normal activity the left and right hemispheres register incoherent patterns that are different than each other, but when one experiences a "Peak Experience" they begin to reflect each other in perfect coherence.
This is the normal brain activity of expanding consciousness.

God is neither Good nor Bad, God is. As such We being made in the image of God are the image of isness and that image is a reflection that some see good, some see separateness, and some see perfection.
The absolute is a perfect mirror for whatever we wish to see or whatever we want to believe is real.
When one ascends the limitations of ego and its identifiers, conscience that is relative to duality is superseded. Until then a conscience is a reflection of ones own judgment and ones belief of ones place in separation of reality.
Without the experience of Truth Conscience becomes the voice of reason and the reason that is generated from lack of knowledge is reason that is founded in illusions of reality, not reality nor the Truth of ones own being.

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,164
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,164
Hey; isn't this the thread talking about guilt? Guilt is something evident in all primates (and I think all mammals).
...oh, sorry; that was last week....

meanwhile....

"Without the experience of Truth, Conscience becomes the voice of reason and the reason that is generated from lack of knowledge is reason that is founded in illusions of reality, not reality nor the Truth of one's own being." -I added the first comma....

When I have a free hour or two, I'm sure I'll enjoy reading this deep wisdom above (...judging by the last part).
Until then, ...I read the last paragraph and was immediately struck by the reference to "reason." Of course, I'm reading Stuart Kauffman's, Reinventing the Sacred [on my Kindle wink ] and his whole argument is based on the inadequacy of reason alone to structure a worldview around. [...or words to that effect.]

"Today the schism between faith and reason finds voice in the sometimes vehement disagreements...." -S.K.
"Emergence... is but one part of the new scientific worldview I shall discuss." -S. Kauffman

~more later
smile


Pyrolysis creates reduced carbon! ...Time for the next step in our evolutionary symbiosis with fire.
Page 34 of 120 1 2 32 33 34 35 36 119 120

Link Copied to Clipboard
Newest Members
debbieevans, bkhj, jackk, Johnmattison, RacerGT
865 Registered Users
Sponsor

Science a GoGo's Home Page | Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Contact UsokÂþ»­¾W
Features | News | Books | Physics | Space | Climate Change | Health | Technology | Natural World

Copyright © 1998 - 2016 Science a GoGo and its licensors. All rights reserved.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5