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#25638 - 04/23/08 02:38 AM Re: To all Atheists: [Re: Anonymous]
odin1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 136
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Anon,

Yes, religion has been the reason for many hideous wars and crimes. The crusades, the Norman Conquest was a type of crusade for William the Great to take the throne of England from Harold. The knights Templar were declared heretics and burned at the stake, all this done in the name of religion, I can go on and on.
However, this was mans interpretation of and rationalizing of religion for personal gain. We all carry our demons but can we control them and I think this is the goal of most religions. Religion is like a tool. You can take it and make beautiful things and improve the world, or you can hit someone in the head with it. We have always been the demons.

Best Regards,
odin1

_________________________
People will forgive you for anything -but being right !
odin1



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#25647 - 04/23/08 05:36 AM Re: To all Atheists: [Re: odin1]
Ellis Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
odin --- you do not need to go back so far. Recently the original speech regarding the War on Terror used the word 'crusade' in the perceived context of a just war. This war was also portrayed using the religious and subjective terms of 'Good' and 'Evil'.

I do not believe we are demons, we are just humans.


PS> The Norman Conquest was not a crusade due to religion at all. William, at the time the Duke of Normandy, felt he had a greater claim to the throne because Harold had promised it to him under duress. William's problem was further complicated by the fact that he was illegitimate, and his claim was week, relying on a promise made by Edward the Confessor. He invaded England anyway and won. He turned out to be a really good administrator, but he was never 'the Great' in Britain!

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#25653 - 04/23/08 01:08 PM Re: To all Atheists: [Re: Ellis]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hello Ellis,

This is true, but William could not convince some of the Barons to invade England unless he spiced it up a bit and made it a holy crusade. He needed their support to pull this off. He promised the pope to build churches and ect. in England. Some of the Saxons were still worshiping the old diety's not many but some. When he had the pope's blessing the undecided Barons deicided to cross the channel. And it is true William started out as "William the [censored]" and wound up "William the Conqueror". This is not often metioned, but William had a hell of a time getting to Hastings, some history books have simplified it.

Best Regards,
odin1





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#25655 - 04/23/08 01:59 PM Re: To all Atheists: [Re: Anonymous]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Again Ellis,

I do not mean to emply we are demons, I meant it to be a metaphor. Also, William is not one of my favorite people in history.

odin1


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#25659 - 04/23/08 05:09 PM Re: To all Atheists: [Re: Anonymous]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Quote:
Yes, religion has been the reason for many hideous wars and crimes.
Odin1 writes.

Odin1, it is my opinion that evil perpetrated by hypocrites--pretenders--is SIN at it most heinous. This is just one of the reasons I happen to feel that it is possible and only logical that life does not end at death is.

WITHOUT THE CONTINUITY OF LIFE THERE IS NO JUSTICE
=================================================
I have a strong feeling that, sometime in the future, I will have to give an account for what I did, or didn't do, with my life. Without this, life really is unfair and unjust, nothing more than a "tale told by an idiot, signifying nothing." (Shakespeare). It is a "...dirty trick." (Hemmingway).

Now, to be fair: We need to tally up the good that spiritually-minded and gracious people--religious and non-religious--have done.

BTW, my wife, Jean, and I belong to what we think of as an "un-organized" religion--skeptics, agnostics and atheists, welcome.

http://www.Pathwayschurch.ca

We meet, weekly, in an informal way. There is little or no ritual and/or doctrinaire teaching. As I understand it, there is only one rule: the Golden Rule. That is, we are asked, to the best of our abilities to love, be kind and serve one another.


Edited by Revlgking (04/23/08 10:09 PM)
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#25660 - 04/23/08 09:18 PM Re: To all Atheists: [Re: Revlgking]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hello Rev,

absolutely, to be fair christianity has done more in my opinion good, which is it's intent. I have a problem with hypocrits, which is what I am attacking. I will be the first to tell you, I am no saint. But, I am humbled by a higher power that I feel exist. Lets not forget to wrong, so we can do better.

odin1

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#25662 - 04/23/08 09:56 PM Re: To all Atheists: [Re: Anonymous]
Anonymous
Unregistered


apples and oranges.

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#25663 - 04/23/08 10:16 PM Re: To all Atheists: [Re: Anonymous]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
As I said
Quote:
BTW, my wife, Jean, and I belong to what we think of as an "un-organized" religion--skeptics, agnostics and atheists, welcome.

http://www.Pathwayschurch.ca

We meet, weekly, in an informal way. There is little or no ritual and/or doctrinaire teaching. As I understand it, there is only one rule: the Golden Rule. That is, we are asked, to the best of our abilities to love, be kind and serve one another.
If you do not have a fellowship, which is helpful to you, feel free to participate, via the WWW. No fees. Need help getting help? Let us know what you need.
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#25664 - 04/23/08 10:27 PM Re: To all Atheists: [Re: Revlgking]
odin1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 136
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Ellis,

Here is a link that you might want to read concerning the involvement with the church to Duke William. It is not the best I've read but confirms earlier post concerning the Norman Conquest.

http://www.geocities.com/athens/aegean/3532/1066Euro.htm


Edited by odin1 (04/23/08 10:30 PM)
_________________________
People will forgive you for anything -but being right !
odin1



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