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#25639 - 04/23/08 03:35 AM Exotic propulsion systems
odin1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 136
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Area 51 is shrouded in a vail of secrecy and has strained the curiosity of the public for years. We all know black projects such as stealth technology have been brought to life there. A so called former employee, there Robert Lazar has claimed he has seen and was paid to back engineer a propulsion system that used "gravity accelerators" not to travel in a linear motion but to bend space and time. Do you think this is feasable or the rantings of a vivid imagination?
odin1
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#25649 - 04/23/08 06:41 AM Re: Exotic propulsion systems [Re: odin1]
redewenur Offline
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Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 1840
Originally Posted By: odin1
Do you think this is feasable or the rantings of a vivid imagination?

Not feasable; but still, "gravity accelerators"? - it might explain why the conspiracy theoists, UFO maniacs and other assorted nutters are attracted to Area 51 grin

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#25665 - 04/23/08 11:12 PM Re: Exotic propulsion systems [Re: redewenur]
Rallem Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 194
Loc: South Royalton, Vermont
I would like to point out that if this person really did work for Area 51 and really was paid to reverse engineer alien technology that he would have been forced to sign an agreement to never discuss his work outside of work and I think the "Men in Black," if they existed would have made Robert Lazar disappear shortly after his turning evidence.

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#25667 - 04/23/08 11:38 PM Re: Exotic propulsion systems [Re: Rallem]
odin1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 136
Loc: North Carolina, USA
He did make the claim he was shot at on the interstate, and made himself public for protection. I might add, Stanton Friedman says his story don't add up. But, some of the claims make some sense. One could also argue some of Stanton Friedmans stories don't add up.

odin1
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#25668 - 04/24/08 12:04 AM Re: Exotic propulsion systems [Re: odin1]
Rallem Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 194
Loc: South Royalton, Vermont
This is America and hasn't everyone been shot at on the highway? jk. smile

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#25669 - 04/24/08 12:21 AM Re: Exotic propulsion systems [Re: Rallem]
odin1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 136
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Good point Rallem!
odin1
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#25681 - 04/24/08 05:46 PM Re: Exotic propulsion systems [Re: odin1]
big fat pig Offline
Member

Registered: 01/15/08
Posts: 97
gravity is an irrotational vector field; meaning it is absolutely conservative; i don't see how you can create an efficient propulsion system "powered by gravity" (this same point goes for energy derived from magnets; magnetic fields are also irrotational; absolutely conservative..)

bending space and time? nice try, if he was an engineer overlooking the project i'm pretty sure he'd have more info on the idea, not just a little rant on 'they're after me'... and one last thing:

lets be rational; a guy spouting 'CLASSIFIED GOVERNMENT INFORMATION' ...if indeed it was true, i doubt the government stand by and let someone leak such intelligence TO THE WORLD... next thing you know he's going to be peddling free energy bonds to the unwashed masses hahaha
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#25686 - 04/24/08 10:11 PM Re: Exotic propulsion systems [Re: big fat pig]
odin1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 136
Loc: North Carolina, USA
bfp,

he said there was an element not native to the Earth, element 115 that released the same energy as 47 10 megaton hydrogen bombs. It took about 223 grams per vehicle. He claims they had 500 lbs. According to Lazar, the "gravity accelerators" were focused to a focal point moved space or a "distortion". He claims that is why they can maneuver so irratically because the craft creats its own gravitational field and occupants in the craft are not aware of such sharp turns.

odin1
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People will forgive you for anything -but being right !
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#25691 - 04/25/08 04:22 AM Re: Exotic propulsion systems [Re: odin1]
big fat pig Offline
Member

Registered: 01/15/08
Posts: 97
one space ship was supposed to have crashed and they were able to get 500 lbs off of it? ALTHOUGH they are powered by only '223 grams'? nice story. the rest sounds like pure rubbish, i wont go into detail... if this man claims to be a former engineer, i'd expect more than just "oh they have some magic dust from outer space and it makes the ship fly and do cool sharp turns"
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#25696 - 04/25/08 12:59 PM Re: Exotic propulsion systems [Re: big fat pig]
odin1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 136
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Hello bfp,

His story was the aliens gave 500 lbs of element 115 to the folks at area 51. The Roswell incident was not mentioned by Lazar that I know anything about.

odin1
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People will forgive you for anything -but being right !
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#25699 - 04/25/08 04:25 PM Re: Exotic propulsion systems [Re: odin1]
Mike Kremer Offline

Megastar

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 1696
Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: Mike Kremer


I agree with 'big fat pig' his acessement of these storys are that - they are rubbish. Even if they were 'part true'. And there were scientists producing 'long term working' lab experiments, then just the continuous supply of exotic materials, chemicals, and electrical power to the Laboratorys in question, would raise the interest of the suppliers, an others, including competitive Companys, Goverments and spies.
The more scientifically orientated a gravity scam or free energy machine has in its working blurbs, the more interest is taken by persons looking for funding, and a free lunch ticket.

In 1992 there was great excitement generated when Dr Podkletnov published his results regarding the 'lessening' of Gravity above his rotating ultra cold disks, (funded by the Marshall Space Flight Center)

Quote:

>In 1992, Dr. Podkletnov, Tampere University, Finland, published results of his experimentation with high-Tc ceramic superconductors. He devised an experiment in which a disk of superconducting material was magnetically levitated and rotated at high speed (up to several thousand rpm) in the presence of an external magnetic field. In the course of the tests he noted that objects above the rotating disk showed a variable but measurable loss of weight (variable from <0.5% to around 2%). He had no explanation for this effect but went through a self-described rigorous effort to eliminate systematic or other possible sources of error. Having done so, he found that the effect remained.
References
Podkletnov, E. and Nieminen (1992), "A Possibility of Gravitational Force Shielding by Bulk YBa2Cu3O7 Superconductor," Physica C 203, pp. 441-444, 1992
Li, N. and Torr, D.G. (1991), "Effects of a Gravitomagnetic Field on Pure Superconductors," Phys Rev. D, Vol. 43, No.2, pp. 457-459, Jan 1991.
Li, N. and Torr, D.G. (1992), "Gravitational Effects on the Magnetic Attenuation of Superconductors," Phys Rev B, Vol. 46, No.9, pp. 5489-5495, Sept 1992.
Torr, D.G. and Li, N. (1993), "Gravitoelectric-Electric Coupling via Superconductivity," Found. Phys Letters, Vol. 6, No.4, pp. 371-383, 1993."<



It all sounds wonderful. You can find more about him on the Web........Yet nothing more heard, far as I know.

How about the Flying Saucer, complete with a large spinning Gyroscope mounted on gimbals.
Reposition the Gyroscope while the Saucer is flying, and the Saucer instantly flies off in a new direction, at the speed it was travelling before.

It looks logical, sounds logical, and to those who have played with a toy Gyroscope, even practical? ...But no nothing more.

How about the long rotating Space Tether let out from a satellite in orbit? Supposed to generate hundreds of watts of
free electricity?
I believe the tether broke and the experiment was cancelled.

Try to find:- Quantum Cavorite: Gravity Shielding and Superconductors
Web Page Created by Pete Skeggs, 27 Jul 1997.

If its still available, for more scientifical reads.
Thats all for now


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.
"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.



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#25700 - 04/25/08 08:22 PM Re: Exotic propulsion systems [Re: odin1]
Rallem Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 194
Loc: South Royalton, Vermont
How does gravity work?

Inside This Article
1. How does gravity work? 2. Lots More Information 3. See all Geophysics articles


Q: What's the law of universal gravitation?



A: Each particle of matter attracts every other particle with a force directly proportional to the product of their masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them.


There are two forces in nature that we experience every day: gravity and magnetism. You may have magnets on your refrigerator, and you know that a magnet will attract a refrigerator with a certain amount of force. The force depends on the strength of the magnet and the distance between the magnet and the metal. You also know that magnets have two poles -- north and south. Either pole will attract iron or steel equally well, north will attract south, and like poles will repel one another.

Gravity is the other common force. Newton was the first person to study it seriously, and he came up with the law of universal gravitation:
Each particle of matter attracts every other particle with a force which is directly proportional to the product of their masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them.
The standard formula for gravity is:

Gravitational force = (G * m1 * m2) / (d2)
where G is the gravitational constant, m1 and m2 are the masses of the two objects for which you are calculating the force, and d is the distance between the centers of gravity of the two masses.


Stockybye/Getty Images
We experience gravity and magnetism every day.
G has the value of 6.67 x 10E-8 dyne * cm2/gm2. That means that if you put two 1-gram objects 1 centimeter apart from one another, they will attract each other with the force of 6.67 x 10E-8 dyne. A dyne is equal to about 0.001 gram weight, meaning that if you have a dyne of force available, it can lift 0.001 grams in Earth's gravitational field. So 6.67 x 10E-8 dyne is a miniscule force. When you deal with massive bodies like the Earth, however, which has a mass of 6E+24 kilograms (see this Question of the Day), it adds up to a rather powerful force. It is also interesting to think about the fact that every atom attracts every other atom in the universe in some small way!

Einstein later came along and redefined gravity, so there are now two models -- Newtonian and Einsteinian. Einsteinian gravitational theory has features that allow it to predict the motion of light around very massive objects and several other interesting phenomena. According to Encyclopedia Britannica:

The general theory of relativity addresses the problem of gravity and that of nonuniform, or accelerated, motion. In one of his famous thought-experiments, Einstein showed that it is not possible to distinguish between an inertial frame of reference in a gravitational field and an accelerated frame of reference. That is, an observer in a closed space capsule who found himself pressing down on his seat could not tell whether he and the capsule were at rest in a gravitational field, or whether he and the capsule were undergoing acceleration. From this principle of equivalence, Einstein moved to a geometric interpretation of gravitation. The presence of mass or concentrated energy causes a local curvature in the space-time continuum. This curvature is such that the inertial paths of bodies are no longer straight lines but some form of curved (orbital) path, and this acceleration is what is called gravitation.
If certain assumptions and simplifications are made, Einstein's equations handle Newtonian gravity as a subset.
The question of why atoms attract one another is still not understood. The goal is to combine gravity, electromagnetism and strong and weak nuclear forces into a single unified theory. (Check out this page on quantum gravity string theory.)

http://www.howstuffworks.com/framed.htm?parent=question232.htm&url=http://staff.science.uva.nl/~rhd/string_theory.html

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#25709 - 04/26/08 01:56 AM Re: Exotic propulsion systems [Re: Rallem]
odin1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 136
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Thanks for the link.

What Lazar was saying is that the energy created by the amplifiers was proportional to the distortion it created in the fabric of space. Therefore, the greater the energy the more distortion and as he put it "literally going downhill" , or it was constantly chasing the focal point. According to him, the craft flowed with the distortion-so speed would not be a quality making light speed of no significance as we have always heard it would take years to travel to point x at 186282 mps.

Far out stuff, but you have to ask- just suppose for the sake of conversation this was true. That all the laws of physics known and unknown supported this allegation. Why would NASA be squandering with space shuttles and craft that will take 6 months to go to Mars? And let me add, I really have my doubts, I am not saying I believe this, it is intriging though and I am curious as to the opinions of others.

odin1

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People will forgive you for anything -but being right !
odin1



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#25716 - 04/26/08 03:27 AM Re: Exotic propulsion systems [Re: odin1]
odin1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 136
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Hello Mike,

I see your point about keeping something like this secret. But let me be the devil's advocate. If-If all this is being done at Groom Lake and the equiptment and facilities are there they could easily keep something like this under wraps. The stealth fighter and bomber were built there and many igredients went into that technology that was not present when other aircraft were built. The suppliers don't care, they want a check and who blames them? It is doubtful any one supplier would furnish any more than one item and without knowing all or most of the items being supplied how could anyone ask questions especially for a technology that has never existed before? This is a huge base. I was stationed at Nellis AFB when I was in Service and it was years after I got out before I knew of this base.

Now before you label me a fruitcake, let me say again I'm not saying I believe it. I will say it again, the story and theory is intriging, I will play the devil's advocate as I said. I would like other thoughts on this.

odin1
_________________________
People will forgive you for anything -but being right !
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#25722 - 04/26/08 06:02 AM Re: Exotic propulsion systems [Re: odin1]
big fat pig Offline
Member

Registered: 01/15/08
Posts: 97
take a step back then: why would the aliens choose the usa? why not japan? or russia? or australia?

and by the way, there have been no confirmed alien-abductions, these stories are the result of false memories; these 'experiences' are usually recalled with the aid of a hypnotist...who usually believes in UFO paranormal theories... the hypnotist causes the subject to believe they've had a ~ experience.

so Lazar says that the magic space dust caused a distortion in space-time such that the craft was constantly "surfing" a wave in which ever direction it wanted to move...
its a nice idea, should be in a sci-fi novel if it isn't already... gravity requires mass... so now we're going to have to play with wormholes and the meta-existance of a HUGE mass in order to cause the great speeds/accelerations with which the crafts are claimed to move... again, we're just playing with sci-fi here;

in order to work with the magic space dust the engineers(among which was mr lazar) would have to understand it, yet it doesn't seem that he understands it well enough to communicate/explain it. im sure that Lazar is selling many books...

lol intelligent beings from space came to earth to give precious and potentially lethal technologies to the usa for free... while not long ago there was a nuclear stand-off where the future of life on earth was on the scales of fate... yes i believe that friendly aliens would want to help us by giving us better weapons....
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#25735 - 04/26/08 07:20 PM Re: Exotic propulsion systems [Re: big fat pig]
Rallem Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 194
Loc: South Royalton, Vermont
Originally Posted By: big fat pig
take a step back then: why would the aliens choose the usa? why not japan? or russia? or australia?

and by the way, there have been no confirmed alien-abductions, these stories are the result of false memories; these 'experiences' are usually recalled with the aid of a hypnotist...who usually believes in UFO paranormal theories... the hypnotist causes the subject to believe they've had a ~ experience.

so Lazar says that the magic space dust caused a distortion in space-time such that the craft was constantly "surfing" a wave in which ever direction it wanted to move...
its a nice idea, should be in a sci-fi novel if it isn't already... gravity requires mass... so now we're going to have to play with wormholes and the meta-existance of a HUGE mass in order to cause the great speeds/accelerations with which the crafts are claimed to move... again, we're just playing with sci-fi here;

in order to work with the magic space dust the engineers(among which was mr lazar) would have to understand it, yet it doesn't seem that he understands it well enough to communicate/explain it. im sure that Lazar is selling many books...

lol intelligent beings from space came to earth to give precious and potentially lethal technologies to the usa for free... while not long ago there was a nuclear stand-off where the future of life on earth was on the scales of fate... yes i believe that friendly aliens would want to help us by giving us better weapons....


Maybe we're talking about different things here or maybe I have to go back a little further and reread some of the posts, but I was under the impression that this thread was about a man who claimed to have been hired to reverse engineer alien technology which crashed in the United States? You asked why the Aliens chose the United States and not other countries, and I think they really didn't decide to crash and the reasons for their being there could be alien.

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#25737 - 04/26/08 08:13 PM Re: Exotic propulsion systems [Re: odin1]
big fat pig Offline
Member

Registered: 01/15/08
Posts: 97
rallem:
Originally Posted By: odin1
Hello bfp,

His story was the aliens gave 500 lbs of element 115 to the folks at area 51. The Roswell incident was not mentioned by Lazar that I know anything about.

odin1

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#25738 - 04/26/08 08:17 PM Re: Exotic propulsion systems [Re: Rallem]
samwik Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/10/06
Posts: 1164
Loc: Colorado
I've seen a picture of a sillouetted "Blackbird," with the orange, setting sun blazing through between the wing and fuselage.
Captioned, Lockheed SR-71, it is signed To.... In appreciation for your long support of our "Skunk Works" Programs.
C. L. "Kelly" Johnson, 1978


I've seen those boxy stealth fighters cruising low at night, along the mountains between Vegas and Tonopah, back in the 1970's.
Do we really need to invoke alien technology to wonder what they're doing out there?
_________________________
Pyrolysis creates reduced carbon! ...Time for the next step in our evolutionary symbiosis with fire.

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#25739 - 04/26/08 08:19 PM Re: Exotic propulsion systems [Re: Rallem]
odin1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 136
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Good point Rallem, also, if this story holds any water, who knows what the Russians, Japanese ,Australia or anybody else might have. As Rallem pointed out this thread is concerning Robert Lazar's claim and he happens to be here in the US. It doesn't really matter where he gets his mail.

odin1
_________________________
People will forgive you for anything -but being right !
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#25741 - 04/26/08 09:35 PM Re: Exotic propulsion systems [Re: odin1]
odin1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/13/08
Posts: 136
Loc: North Carolina, USA
The gossip about alien technology would have nothing to do with projects that didn't require that technology, but need to be kept quiet. This area is huge, I could only guess, several different projects are going on there. And they are probably cutting edge fantastic technology that came from the great minds of the free world. One claim was made that a craft being developed there could travel to the moon and back before lunch, and the gentleman that said that didn't say at what time it would leave. That sounds fantastic, and completely neglecting the alien influence claimed, it it feasable I feel that this type of technology exist. If you ask me to prove it --well, you will make a fool of me or allow me to make a fool of myself is a better way to put it. There's a lot of claims, the technology to some degree may exist, whether from here, or alphi cenauri.

Best Regards,
odin1
_________________________
People will forgive you for anything -but being right !
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#25742 - 04/26/08 09:41 PM Re: Exotic propulsion systems [Re: odin1]
big fat pig Offline
Member

Registered: 01/15/08
Posts: 97
i guess that the purpose of such speculations are for entertainment rather than information/education and people need to recognize this; (i think that the same statement goes for all conspiracy theories in general)
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#25744 - 04/26/08 09:57 PM Re: Exotic propulsion systems [Re: odin1]
Rallem Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 194
Loc: South Royalton, Vermont
I do think this story is bunk on the grounds that Robert Lazar if he did work for Area 51 he would be breaking an agreement I'm sure he would have had to make stating that he would not talk about work outside of work with anyone, and if he did work there I am sure the Government would have arrested him and made him and his statements disappear. In a later post someone did say that Mr. Lazar claimed to be shot at on the Highway where I remarked that this is America and everybody has been shot at on the highway, but seriously the Government would not be taking pot shots at people on the highway for any situation, and this claim only goes to show how little credence we can put into these claims.

BFP thanks for pointing me to where you were coming from.

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#25745 - 04/26/08 09:59 PM Re: Exotic propulsion systems [Re: Rallem]
Rallem Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 194
Loc: South Royalton, Vermont
I think there is a Governemnt conspiracy to make so many outlandish conspiracy claims that the good ones would get buried. smile jk.

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#25746 - 04/26/08 10:06 PM Re: Exotic propulsion systems [Re: Rallem]
big fat pig Offline
Member

Registered: 01/15/08
Posts: 97
Originally Posted By: Rallem
I think there is a Governemnt conspiracy to make so many outlandish conspiracy claims that the good ones would get buried. smile jk.


you should make a video on youtube and you will get many followers lol
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#25749 - 04/27/08 12:42 AM Re: Exotic propulsion systems [Re: big fat pig]
Rallem Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 194
Loc: South Royalton, Vermont
Originally Posted By: big fat pig
Originally Posted By: Rallem
I think there is a Governemnt conspiracy to make so many outlandish conspiracy claims that the good ones would get buried. smile jk.


you should make a video on youtube and you will get many followers lol


Isn't YouTube the central hub of this Conspiracy Network? smile

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#25760 - 04/27/08 03:38 AM Re: Exotic propulsion systems [Re: Rallem]
big fat pig Offline
Member

Registered: 01/15/08
Posts: 97
Originally Posted By: Rallem
Originally Posted By: big fat pig
Originally Posted By: Rallem
I think there is a Governemnt conspiracy to make so many outlandish conspiracy claims that the good ones would get buried. smile jk.


you should make a video on youtube and you will get many followers lol


Isn't YouTube the central hub of this Conspiracy Network? smile


haha you've got an excellent point there
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#25801 - 04/28/08 09:00 PM Re: Exotic propulsion systems [Re: big fat pig]
Rallem Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 194
Loc: South Royalton, Vermont
Originally Posted By: big fat pig
Originally Posted By: Rallem
Originally Posted By: big fat pig
Originally Posted By: Rallem
I think there is a Governemnt conspiracy to make so many outlandish conspiracy claims that the good ones would get buried. smile jk.


you should make a video on youtube and you will get many followers lol


Isn't YouTube the central hub of this Conspiracy Network? smile


haha you've got an excellent point there


Thanks, I am usually wrong but sometimes I am partially right.

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