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#24555 01/15/08 10:23 PM
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so im taking this really interesting course called altered states of consciousness...

separation of mind and body... out of body experiences are sometimes used as controversial ground to argue ~... do the congenitally blind experience them?

dreaming... since dreaming is exceptionally preceptive and emotional, why don't nightmares leave emotional scars on people the same way as a real-life event might?
although they are only dreams, we ONLY realize that they were just dreams after we think about them from a normal state of consciousness; ie. remember them.
some people go through traumatic real life events which they dont remember yet they leave huge emotional scars(example: child abuse). traumatic dreams could be considered the same way... yet why don't they leave emotional scars?
i think that it may have something to do with the fact that the parts of the brain responsible for memory are deactivated or something like that...

thoughts?


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Originally Posted By: big fat pig
so im taking this really interesting course called altered states of consciousness...

separation of mind and body... out of body experiences are sometimes used as controversial ground to argue ~... do the congenitally blind experience them?

thoughts?


No idea regarding altered states of conciousness......
But your idea regarding ....do the congenitally blind dream?
Is very interesting.
Maybe its possible that the brain is freaking out, through
its lack of visual and color input?
Imaginative dreaming using sound? Dreaming in black and white?
One can see color if your press both eyeballs firmly, would the c blind experiance any of the above?.
I think they must visual something, but whether it would be a nightmare or a pleasant dream , might depend upon their earlier sound experiences, and feeling their way around the furniture with out too many accidents, when younger?
Interesting question, but I dont really have any definate ideas.


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"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.


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well, I've found the answer to my second question regarding traumatic dreams leaving emotional scars...
the question got answered later on in the course readings:

when the brain goes to sleep, neuromodulators in the brain stem (noradrenaline and serotonin) switch the brain from external(seeing, hearing, smelling, touching etc) information processing to internal(memories) information processing.

so all that you dream about are thing that you have experienced before, your brain collects a bunch of random memories and mashes them together into some bizarre dream.

i will post some quotes later on, just for your interest, (I'm running late)


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World Book Dictionary points out that 'pneumatology' is the archaic word for 'psychology'. I suspect that when the physicalists, like Dr. Wilhelm Wundt--the son of a Lutheran minister--Dr. Sigmund Freud, a neurologist, and others, came along, and began to dominate, they pushed mother pneumatology aside.

Personally, I advocate the integration of somatology, psychology and pneumatology--with consent, I include theology.

My university major was in philosophy/psychology. I have been a student of the integrated approach all my life.

"THE PASTORAL USE OF HYPNOTIC TECHNIQUE"
is the title of a book I have. It was written
by one of my mentors--the late, The Rev. Canon Joseph Wittkofski, a former Catholic priest.

I also admire the work of the late Dr. Milton Erickson, a psychiatrist. IMO, Erickson was a pneumatologist. I have his collected papers. He describes hypnosis as a form of communication between two people who respect and trust one another and not as a master/subject phenomenon.
==============================================
Having taken courses in hypnosis from several sources, including from Father Joe, as we called him, years ago, I began using it to help people overcome what I call pneumasomatic (self-inflicted) diseases--the root cause of much mental and physical suffering and pain.

To get away from the hocus pocus and the irrational fear that some people have of hypnosis, I NOW call what I do, pneumatherapy--spiritually-based self-hypnosis. BTW, IMO, all hypnosis is self-hypnosis.

Interestingly, in 1964 I coined the word 'pneumatology' thinking I had done something new. Later I found out that it was already in the dictionary. smile
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumatology

In my opinion, William James, Carl Jung, Carl Rogers, Abraham Maslow and the like, were not just 'psychologists'; they were 'pneumatologists'--students of human spirit and the whole nature of what it means to be spiritual.

Last edited by Revlgking; 01/19/08 06:10 AM.

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my current readings mostly cover materialistic rationalizations of the conventional ideas of consciousness. 'consciousness is just a functional state of the brain' (so would that mean that it is possible to reproduce consciousness?)

another interesting point that got brought up was that fetuses show the signs of REM sleep(dreaming?) after the first 30 weeks... earlier it was said that dreaming was solely based on existing memories in the brain... then what would fetuses dream about, if they did in fact dream?

the author went on to imply that the reason for REM sleep brain activation in a fetus was for building self-awareness etc... basically that the brain was programming itself... quite interesting. I'm starting to love this course.


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BFP asks
Quote:
... would that mean that it is possible to reproduce consciousness?
I presume that this is what happens when parents have a child?

THE OLD CONUNDRUM OR PUZZLEMENT
===============================
What has the most impact on making us who we are: heredity? Or environment?

To what extent is a child the result of its heredity? That is, a copy of its parents? What role does the environment play? In other words, what roles do nature and nurture play in making us who we are, and who we will become?

Quote:
If fetuses dream what do they dream about?
This question hands us another puzzlement. And, in my opinion, this forces us to consider what I call the "Third Factor": pneumature. So it is nature/nurture and pneumature. Circumstances make us what we are--physically and mentally. However, when we come to the point of self-awareness, or consciousness, we become a WHO--a pneumatological, or spiritual being. This is the point where we can start making choices about our circumstances.

Last edited by Revlgking; 01/20/08 01:40 PM.

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VERY INTERESTING
================
Because of my interest in self-hypnosis, I got this from a poster on my Brainmeta.com site:
http://www.bwgen.com/index.htm

Last edited by Revlgking; 01/20/08 03:09 PM.

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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
VERY INTERESTING
================
Because of my interest in self-hypnosis, I got this from a poster on my Brainmeta.com site:
http://www.bwgen.com/index.htm


I finf psychology and hypnosis very interesting. I was,nt aware of self-hypnosis? Is it simply where you promise yourself to do better? Like a New Year promise?
People are weak, and very few ever keep their promise to do better or help others if possible.
Prehaps ones life does depends upon ones early years.?

You stated in a couple of posts above

THE OLD CONUNDRUM OR PUZZLEMENT
===============================
What has the most impact on making us who we are: heredity? Or environment?

Prehaps its our eviroment that makes us decide just how we are going to live. But its heredity that has the power to make some of us leave our enviroment and allow us to live a better life?
Although I am sure intelligence and compassion come in somewhere.

Ones early enviroment is often blamed for our shortcomings.
Years ago I read one of Ron L. Hubbards early books.
Which stated...Mummy and Daddy have a row...baby has an engram. Daddy hits Mummy.....baby has an engram.
An engram is a memory or a glitch that lives in you forever, and is basicly a bad sound that is carried very clearly through the amniotic fluid and becomes fixed in babys brain.

I can understand people being helped by psycological hypnosis, but self-hypnosis, I dont understand how that can be effected by oneself?
More and more people fall by the wayside these days. More and more people require the help of Doctors Psychologists Neurologists, Priests and others.
Prehaps its nothing to do with a broken upbringing , engrams , heredity or enviroment. Prehaps its all to do with the fact that modern life seems to be leading us down wrong road.


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HYPNOSIS IS--AND NOT JUST IN MY OPINION--A TOTAL MISNOMER.
==============================================================
DR. JAMES BRAID (1796 - 1860)
=============================
The word was invented by Dr. James Braid in 1847, who took a scientific approach to the work of Dr. Franz Mesmer. Not realizing he was using a misnomer at the time, he invented it to replace another misnomer, Mesmerism, who used the misnomer, Animal Magnetism. smile BTW, Braid admitted his mistake and created a new word to replace 'hypnosis'. Check his story.

In my opinion--at the risk of creating another misnomer--we need a new "nomer" for this 21st. Century. I use the "nomer", pneumatherapy--based on the word, pneumatology (WIKI it). I will tell you why, later. First, check out
Braid's story in my next post:

Last edited by Revlgking; 01/23/08 05:39 PM.

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Quote:
Dr James Braid (1796 - 1860) is regarded by many as the 'Father of Hypnosis' for he was the man who coined the term "hypnosis" – because he made a mistake.

A Scottish-born physician practising in Manchester during the mid-nineteenth century Dr Braid was an unlikely candidate to become involved with the phenomena then known as Mesmerism, based on the belief that what was involved was "Animal Magnetism."

Braid's interest in the subject began in 1841 when the Swiss magnetiser, Charles Lafontaine was visiting Manchester to present performances of his abilities.

Braid suspected Lafontaine would proved to be a charlatan and on the evening of 13th November his initial expectations tended to be confirmed.

According to Braid's own account: "I saw nothing to diminish, but rather to confirm, my previous prejudices."

However six nights later Braid, at another exhibition, the physician was impressed by one patient's inability to open his eyelids.

Braid wrote later: "I considered that to be a real phenomenon, and was anxious to discover the physiological cause of it.

"Next night, I watched this case when again operated on, with intense interest, and before the termination of the experiment, felt assured I had discovered its cause, but considered it prudent not to announce my opinion publicly, until I had had an opportunity of testing its accuracy, by experiments and observation in private."

James Baird began his own experiments in an attempt to find a scientific reason for the trance. He quickly dismissed the erroneous theories of the time that Mesmeric trances were due to some form of magnetism.

Believing that the 'sleep' resulted from fatigue of the eyes, Braid experimented with his wife, a friend, and a servant. Each was instructed to gaze steadily at an object, and he discovered he too could produce a trance-like state.

At first his technique was to hold a small bright object between 8 to 16 inches (20cm-40cm) in front of his subjects' eyes so that the eyes became strained, after which the eyelids would often close spontaneously.

As he continued with his experiments however he found he achieved trance states by suggestions alone.

In 1842 he published "Neurypnology or The Rationale of Nervous Sleep Considered In Relation With Animal Magnetism."

Having concluded that the phenomena was a form of sleep Dr Braid named the phenomena after Hypnos, the Greek god of sleep and master of dreams

But by 1847 he discovered that all the major phenomena of hypnotism such as catalepsy, anaesthesia and amnesia, could be induced without sleep. Realising his choice of the term hypnosis had been a mistake; he tried to rename it to monoideism. It was too late.

By then though James Braid's terms of "Hypnosis" and "Hypnotism" had already become widely adopted as part of all the major European languages.

He died suddenly of a heart attack on the 25th March 1860.

You can read Neurypenology on Dr Dylan Morgan website http://www.hypno1.co.uk/ where you will also find a more detailed biography of Braid's achievements which included many papers and monographs as well as the development of theories and techniques which have stood the test of time.


http://www.jamesbraidsociety.com/jamesbraid.htm


Last edited by Revlgking; 01/23/08 05:32 PM.
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Hypnosis, whether you call it Animal Magnetism or Mesmerism, everybody knows its a state where you have no control over your movements. You usually do as you are told, and usually speak the truth when asked.
Your posts and your name give you away? Reverend King? I think?
Have you been Hypnotised, I suppose you Hypnotise others when you preach a sermon to your congregation, that is not fair

Thank you
Blobby2

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Originally Posted By: Blobby2
...I suppose you Hypnotise others when you preach a sermon to your congregation, that is not fair...Blobby2
Not fair? you say. But it sure is good way to "make" stingy people give a good offering. laugh BTW, I have been retired--I prefer to say that I am re-directed--since 1994. The congregation I left is still asleep. smile

Last edited by Revlgking; 01/24/08 05:47 AM.
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What happened to Blobby2? Did he fall into a trance? laugh


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