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#24602 - 01/19/08 04:48 AM Money- too much or too little
Ellis Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
There was a thread on money, barter and a medium of exchange here but I can't find it.

However having just heard Mr Bush's solution to the US economic situation (cut taxes to make people spend more) on the same BBC programme as the news that Zimbabwe is issuing a $10,000,000 note I just hope Mr Bush knows what he is doing. It cost $3,000,000 for a tube of toothpaste at the start of December (in Z), but now it's $60,000,000. And, interestingly I thought as we had discussed barter on this site, a person interviewed (who owned a supermarket) remarked that at this level of hyper- inflation barter is the only meaningful economic system- but he was looking forward to going to the bank for his weekly budget of $300,000,000 as with the new notes it may fit in his pocket and he won't have to take a paper bag along with him!! Life must be very hard indeed under such conditions.

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#24626 - 01/20/08 08:27 PM Re: Money- too much or too little [Re: Ellis]
samwik Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/10/06
Posts: 1164
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Ellis
There was a thread on money, barter and a medium of exchange here but I can't find it.
Yes! We must find this!

You presage the needed coming Zeitgeist. We need to get back on track.

Also currently synergizing:

Michael Shermer: Mind of the Market: Compassionate Apes, Competitive Humans, and Other Tales from Evolutionary Economics
(Only a few more weeks to get my Kindle!)
(I tear with frustrated anticipation)

featuring: "NEUROeconomics" and dopamine;
...and also related:
Paul Zak, the oxytocin man;
E.O. Wilson, sociobiology;
as well as...
the Political Brain, Drew Westen;
How To Think About Information, Dan Schiller;

the Third Culture, Integrative Sciences.

...and all about Complex Emergent Behaviours.
_________________________
Pyrolysis creates reduced carbon! ...Time for the next step in our evolutionary symbiosis with fire.

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#24630 - 01/21/08 05:12 AM Re: Money- too much or too little [Re: samwik]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
ABOUT THE LOST THREAD ON ECONOMICS
==================================
Is it the one I started in Not-Quite-Science Forum? I think I posed the question: Is "economics" a really a science? Then I wrote about what I call: A feathers--neither left wing, nor right wing--approach to the political economy.

After all, feathers cover pretty well the whole bird. And consider the humble tail feathers--situated right over the bird's anus. Without the tail feathers, flight is impossible no matter how powerful the wings.

I INVITE ALL OF YOU TO BECOME INTUITIVE ECONOMISTS
Economics, which Thomas Carlyle called "the dismal science", is too important to be left to the so-called, "experts".

_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#24634 - 01/21/08 07:28 PM Re: Money- too much or too little [Re: samwik]
samwik Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/10/06
Posts: 1164
Loc: Colorado
Yes Revl., I was hoping you'd find that and start it up again.

Originally Posted By: from above
You presage the needed coming Zeitgeist. We need to get back on track.
Also currently synergizing:
Michael Shermer: Mind of the Market: Compassionate Apes, Competitive Humans, and Other Tales from Evolutionary Economics
(Only a few more weeks to get my Kindle!)
(I tear with frustrated anticipation)
featuring: "NEUROeconomics" and dopamine;
...and also related:
Paul Zak, the oxytocin man;
E.O. Wilson, sociobiology;
as well as...
the Political Brain, Drew Westen;
How To Think About Information, Dan Schiller;
the Third Culture, Integrative Sciences.
...and all about Complex Emergent Behaviours.
Sorry, I think I meant....
...and all about Emergent Behaviours from Complex Systems.
_________________________
Pyrolysis creates reduced carbon! ...Time for the next step in our evolutionary symbiosis with fire.

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#24635 - 01/22/08 02:08 AM Re: Money- too much or too little [Re: samwik]
Ellis Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
So did we decide it WAS a science? I know it was pointed out that there are formulated rules and I remember remarking that they were often ignored, usually by people wanting to make more money. Surely there are too many uncertainties to allow economics to be a science. Would there not have to be a predictable response to a particular stimulus for example?

Certainly I think that spending your way out of inflation is a very interesting approach. Which of your gurus would advocate that Sam, or are they,as many are, enthusiastic theorists?

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#24640 - 01/22/08 03:28 PM Re: Money- too much or too little [Re: Ellis]
samwik Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/10/06
Posts: 1164
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Ellis
Certainly I think that spending your way out of inflation is a very interesting approach. Which of your gurus would advocate that Sam, or are they, as many are, enthusiastic theorists?
My gurus? Do you mean these references above (#24634)?
I've just run across these myself; I guess they're just "theorists." smile ?

Have I recently heard that 70% of US economy is consumer spending?
...also heard, 70% of US economy is Financial Services (paper pushers).

(I wish I knew what I was referring to or talking about)
...but that stuff sounds about as balanced as our American diet.
I can't see why there would be any problem (with our house of cards).

The last time we got stimulated by the President's package
...of economic relief (hehehe), we used the pitance to help pay for our increased health-care costs (no, now I remember, it was for our increased fuel costs); the health-care costs came out of savings.

I wonder which one of our increasing number of debts we will pay down slightly, for a few months, with this new "stimulus package."

I found some old posts from this thread; more later....
p.s. Thanks Jon Stewart for the package joke....


_________________________
Pyrolysis creates reduced carbon! ...Time for the next step in our evolutionary symbiosis with fire.

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#24642 - 01/23/08 12:39 AM Re: Money- too much or too little [Re: Ellis]
Wyldfire Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/18/07
Posts: 20
Spending yourself out of inflation, is like adding more water to a flood, all it does it create a bigger flood....

For the supposedly Capatalist capital of the world I really wonder who is making these financal decision in Amercia...

Nobody ever wins from inflation in the long term, sure a couple of business might get a few extra bucks but unless they spend it straight away any increase in profit it useless because the worth of your dolar is down.


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#24647 - 01/23/08 05:06 AM Re: Money- too much or too little [Re: Wyldfire]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
"I really wonder who is making these financial decisions in America..." Wyldfire comments.
If that's a question, WF, here are some basic answers.
http://www.answers.com/topic/money-creation

In my opinion, we also need to ask some very basic questions:

1. What is money?

2. Who should be in charge of money-creation?
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#24648 - 01/23/08 05:38 AM Re: Money- too much or too little [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
This is also helpful:
http://www.investopedia.com/articles/basics/03/061303.asp

BTW, in this article there is the admission that
Quote:
Conclusion
Remember, as long as people have faith in the currency, a central bank can issue more of it. But if the Fed issues too much money, the value will go down, as with anything that has a higher supply than demand. So even though technically it can create money "out of thin air," the central bank cannot simply print money as it wants.
I would like to ask the economist? who wrote this bumf:
Who among us, rich or poor, does not want (that is, demand) more money?
When was the last time you threw away your cash because you did not believe (have faith) it would buy you something?
There is lots of faith in cash, and there is lots of demand for it. THE BOTTOM LINE IS: WE NEED A MORAL, ETHICAL, DEMOCRATIC,AND BETTER SUPPLY SYSTEM, not one owned by one powerful monopoly. No wonder President Wilson took ill and died shortly after he made that awful deal...when was it? In 1914...

THINK ABOUT THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS
===================================
Who owns the so-call Federal Reserve Bank of America? The USA?
Does the Bank of Canada REALLY belong to Canada?

KILLER AND YO-YO-LIKE INTERESTS RATES ARE PROBLEMATIC
=====================================================
How come there is no Bank of Canada, on the corner, handing out loans--at a flat and cost-related fee--to entrepreneurs--ready to hire people with job skills and in need of work?

Unless I miss my guess, it is entrepreneurs with manageable loans and workers with good pay who are the ones who make and buy the things we need.

Workers with money can also afford fee-based loans from the Bank of Canada, to buy the things--for example, houses--they need.

And wouldn't this, in turn create jobs?

Our banking system must be designed to work for all of us, not just for the economic elite.

THIS IS NOT AN ANTI-BANK RANT; IT IS ANTI ROTTEN BANKING SYSTEM
Banks designed to serve the public good are needed.
================================================================
As admitted above: Our central banks have been given the power, by we the people, simply by fiat, to create money out of thin air.

If this is true, how come we have such a rotten and un-balanced system which only rewards a few at the top?

Most of us, if we are lucky enough to have a job, have to put up with living from pay check to pay check, carrying heavy debts and always in fear of foreclosure or crippling ill health.
==================================================
MORE QUESTIONS
=============
What is the relationship between interest and inflation?
What is interest? What is inflation?
What is a dividend?
Why do we have an autocratic money system?
Could we have a democratic one?
How come all those "experts" keep making all those BIG mistakes in running the economy--and keep getting paid? Or are they really mistakes? HMMMMMM!!!!!
There is an old saying: When big corporations want to make money they simply create chaos, offer to finance it and manipulate the politicians into making the people pay with taxes. Anyone wonder how come most governments (us) are in debt.


Edited by Revlgking (01/23/08 07:20 AM)
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#24649 - 01/23/08 06:18 AM Re: Money- too much or too little [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
MONEY AND FAITH
No wonder the first banks were temples.
===============
All economists agree that the first money systems were barter-based systems, using commodities--goods and services. It worked. But it was inefficient because there had to be what is called a coincidence of need. How do you trade a cow for chicken with a guy who has chicken, but too many cows, already.

Until recent times, even paper money was back by barter. I have some old bills which say: THE BANK OF CANADA WILL PAY THE BEARER....This meant that the bank was supposed to sell you metal for your paper. You know why that system failed, eh? Metals began to get more and more expensive.

And how come: When they sucked all that silver out of your coins they did so without telling you it was happening? Modern coins are tokens, like paper, without much real intrinsic value. This is why the price of metals, especially gold, are rising?

FIAT--IT IS WORTH ONE DOLLAR BECAUSE WE SAY SO
==============================================
Today, we have what is called FIAT money. Look on a bill. It simply says: THIS IS LEGAL TENDER (Because we, by fiat, say so.)
BTW, does this mean that coupons are illegal? I don't think so. Interesting. CCC is based on the common law principle that coupons are legal

Experts agree
Quote:
Money is created by a kind of a perpetual interaction between concrete things, our intangible desire for them, and our abstract faith in what has value: money is valuable because we want it, but we want it only because it can get us a desired product or service.


Edited by Revlgking (01/23/08 06:27 AM)
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#24662 - 01/23/08 11:36 PM Re: Money- too much or too little [Re: Revlgking]
Ellis Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
When we no longer agree that the paper money, no longer backed by equivalent precious metal (no modern currency is), has become useless, we have the situation in Zimbabwe and other African nations and until recently some Eastern European currencies. Then the population moves to a barter economy, with all its problems. Barter can really only succeed within a physically restrictive area- when local goods can be traded. The development of money responded to the need to trade away from home, and is culturally acceptable by mutual agreement anywhere. Barter isn't, but in Zimbabwe at the moment I guess the rich guy is the one with a few eggs from his hens to trade for some fresh vegetables, not a guy with heaps of money in his pocket, or the bank- with nothing to eat in his cupboard.

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#24668 - 01/24/08 02:40 AM Re: Money- too much or too little [Re: Ellis]
Wyldfire Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/18/07
Posts: 20
One of my old Economics text books defines inflation as the following:

A persistent increase in the level of consumer prices or a persistent decline in the purchasing power of money, caused by an increase in available currency and credit beyond the proportion of available goods and services.

In Australia inflation is measured by the CPI, which works out how much an average house hold expenses have increased.


Interest Rates, are basically the cost to borrow money e.g. you pay 5% of the amount you borrowed each year till you have paid the amount off.

What affect interest rates, demand, the greater the demand for money the more the banks can charge. What affects this demand nearly anything that happens in a nation, mostly National Reserve Banks have a rather large influence because they inject or withdraw currency from the money market, the less money around the great its demand the higher interest rates are.

What is the relationship between interest and inflation?

The theory behind how interest rates and inflation interact is quiet complicated, and to be honest I don't the skills to explain it in its entirety properly....

The basic interaction, is lower the interest rate, the easier it is to get money, the more people spend, the more people are prepared to spend the rate of inflation increase.

The amount of money a Government is currently spending has a large effect on inflation.

In Australia our Reserve Bank is a independent entity to the government although it often makes recommendations to the Reserve bank.

I apologize that my description are quiet poor, I am a numbers person and while I feel I have a quiet a extensive grasp on these concepts I really don't have the skills to explain them to other properly.

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#24672 - 01/24/08 07:56 AM Re: Money- too much or too little [Re: Wyldfire]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Without going into details at this point, some of us in this area have developed a way of creating a barter currency system and we are not opposed to paying just taxes as part of the system.

We are negotiating with governments to have this system accepted by the tax man. http://www.universalbartergroup.com
After all, if the tax man says, barter is taxable, then it logically follows that barter currency--we call them tradeBUX--ought to be acceptable as payment for taxes. This could help us get rid of the so called underground economy. One can hide money, but it is not easy to hide things--expensive cars and the like?
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#24676 - 01/24/08 03:48 PM Re: Money- too much or too little [Re: Revlgking]
Mike Kremer Offline

Megastar

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 1696
Loc: London UK
That sounds a very useful idea, especially suitable for the 3rd world economy.
There is a Group in the UK which has aked the Government to ABOLISH taxes alltogether.
Its a serious concept, and works like this:-

No-one pays any more tax, ever. One keeps everything earned.
The Goverment obtains its taxes by adding a "Sales Tax" upon EVERY item sold.


Its virtually foolproof, records are automatic, saves on all present tax records , inspectors and tax offices.
But it would depend upon the UK staying out of the Common Market,
due to VAT being paid at present.


Edited by Mike Kremer (01/24/08 07:27 PM)
Edit Reason: spelling
_________________________
.

.
"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.



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#24680 - 01/25/08 05:15 AM Re: Money- too much or too little [Re: Mike Kremer]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
MK, you comment:"There is a Group in the UK which has asked the Government to ABOLISH taxes all together."

You mean that they want a new way of collecting taxes, not abolish them.

I was born in Newfoundland in 1930. Before Newfoundland became part of Canada, in 1949, this was the tax system.

Question: What about a poor family with 10 children? Would they be taxed on all that food they would need to buy? Perhaps basic foods would need to be tax free.

BTW, I do agree that tax reform is needed.





_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#24681 - 01/25/08 08:25 PM Re: Money- too much or too little [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
I ADD A FURTHER COMMENT TO MY LAST POST
=======================================
As I said: I was born in Newfoundland (NL) in 1930. I was 19--a junior at a university in New Brunswick, when Newfoundland became part of Canada, in 1949.

ABOUT THE TAX SYSTEM
====================
Personal income tax was abolished, in 1925, by the Liberal-Conservatives. But this does not mean that there were no taxes.

From then until 1934 there was a great deal of economic volatility, confusion and rumours of corruption. And looking back at the way things played out, I am sure there was some. In 1932 there were even two riots in St. John's--one was a food riot--by the needy poor. It stopped when food was handed out. The second riot was over the matter of corruption. No one was killed, but the rioter--over 10,000--did a lot of damage. This led to a radical change in government.

FROM 1934 TO 1949, NL WAS GOVERNED BY AN APPOINTED COMMISSION
=============================================================
There seven on the Commission. There was a governor plus three others, from Britain. The other three were from NL. By and large, the system worked well. When NL went into union with Canada, there was a surplus of over $40,000,000, not bad for a province with only 225,000 people.

As I recall the system: Merchants, in cahoots with the NL government, under the oversight of the Canadian banks, ran the tax system. This in effect gave the merchants in St. John's--the ones who did all the importing of consumer goods--the right to add on to their costs anything the market allowed. Most of the controlling merchants--hated by the average wage earner and price slave--made fortunes, while many went with the basic needs of life.

WW 2 WAS "GOOD" FOR BUSINESS IN NL
==================================
Beginning in 1940 a modicum of prosperity came to NL as a result of the role it played in helping the Allies win the Battle of the Atlantic in WW 2. The Americans and Canadians build several large bases there. The merchants loved selling all that stuff.

Bell Island, where I was born, was attacked twice, by enemy subs. I witnessed those attacks and saw dead bodies brought ashore from the four iron ore carriers which were sunk.

BTW, as a teenager (born and raised in poverty), because I had a well to do friend who knew people in St.John's, I was able to hobnobb with some wealthy St.John's teenagers when I visited the city. That was between 15-&-16. I found them very open people, not at all snobs. Most told me they were getting ready to take off for university. I credit this experience, among others, with inspiring me to ask myself: Wouldn't it be nice if I could do that? At 17, I made it.
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#24686 - 01/26/08 05:59 AM Re: Money- too much or too little [Re: Revlgking]
Ellis Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
I agree with Rev. There would still be tax Mike, just not income tax. This system you are describing is one of the most iniquitous methods of taxing, as Rev has explained. It sounds awful if effective-- but then didn't Mussolini make the trains run on time!

And anyway what is wrong with taxes? Wealthy people would have to be taxed considerably more on their massive incomes in order for it to hurt much ( I suggest as an example Madonna spending millions on a house to make it into her own gym. She seems to know about need in Africa as she recently stole a small boy to adopt from there, presumably to give him a better future). Tax 'em I say-- make them bleed!! Then spend the taxes collected on providing the services we all agree we need. Roads, schools, hospitals, housing ... and lots more- as well as foreign AID not foreign WAR. We need to ensure that those elected to government understand that it is not the taxes that are the problem but the uses to which they are put that upsets people.

Rev- That sounds like an amazing childhood- I had a childhood friend who emigrated to St John's many years ago, and her stories always verged on the exotic!!

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#24687 - 01/26/08 06:20 AM Re: Money- too much or too little [Re: Revlgking]
Mike Kremer Offline

Megastar

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 1696
Loc: London UK
Re my pevious post. Of course you are right.
"They wanted a new way to collect taxes, not abolish them."

Seems you have had a very interesting life, as have all of us who were born in the 1930's. Due to the stupendous world changes we have witnessed after WWII.
Reading thru your "Money-too much or too little" posts here I realise that you have an intimate knowledge of the worlds monetary system.
You wrote earlier "Who among us, rich or poor, does not want (that is, demand) more money?
When was the last time you threw away your cash because you did not believe (have faith) it would buy you something?"

True, I remember the time when few people owned a Bank account, often keeping their money 'under the bed' Either did'nt have any faith in Banks, or had no other option.
You forgot to mention that money buys you less and less as time passes. While the Banks charge you interest for looking after your hard earned money.

When I was working in Canada, I was amazed to find that you could hand your salary check to the cashier in Kresges, or other large supermarket, and they would pay you the full cash amount. To my mind that was trust with a capital T.

In the main, I fully agree with you. World finances do need restructuring, We could do with a common taxation systems if possible. I dont think it could ever be achieved since goverments always ensure that there is a small difference in the value of a neigboring countrys currency relative to its own allowing the Banks to rake off a profit.

Even here in Europe where 27 countries all use the Euro, (except Denmark ,Sweden ,Switzerland, the Vatican, and ourselves plus a couple of others), in all about 330 million people....the system still does not work. Since there is a very big difference in the prices of goods, services, even medical bills from country to country.

I used to believe that an individual should receive a decent living payment, for work done.
Except that idea is a no-no, these days. With so many people having been replaced by automation.
The taxes a large company pays is nowhere near what it should be were people brought into the manufacturing equation. As in the old days of 40 years ago.
Its my considered opinion that no Companies pay what they should do in taxes. They just move abroad to avoid taxes, or send their profits to overseas head offices.
No wonder goverments have to impose 'hidden' taxes upon their public just to keep their country afloat. Keep the poor off the streets, the breadline and to keep on paying the mothers with six kids, but no visible husband, their weekly goverment allowance.
Europe has no borders and hardly any Customs, (you are still required to carry your Passport, though nobody looks at it) so theoreticaly you can work and live anywhere.
Even that that dos'nt work either, since people in the poorer paid countrys, gravitate to the richer countrys for work.
Everyones first choice is to come and live and work England , The has always been worth more than the Euro. second choice is Germany or thirdly,any country west of their own.
West is richer, East is poorer, although Russia fast becoming the new rich capitalists oligarchy, from selling Oil and Gas to Europe, is the fly in the ointment.

Prices go up, but never go down, everyone keeps their financial eye upon everyone else. The slightest movement in the markets or interest rates, the banks then step in buying or selling to force a correction..
The truth is, the rich manufacturing countries hold all the aces, and always will.


_________________________
.

.
"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.



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#24688 - 01/26/08 07:06 AM Re: Money- too much or too little [Re: Ellis]
Mike Kremer Offline

Megastar

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 1696
Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: Ellis
I agree with Rev. There would still be tax Mike, just not income tax. This system you are describing is one of the most iniquitous methods of taxing, as Rev has explained. It sounds awful if effective-- but then didn't Mussolini make the trains run on time!

And anyway what is wrong with taxes? Wealthy people would have to be taxed considerably more on their massive incomes in order for it to hurt much ( I suggest as an example Madonna spending millions on a house to make it into her own gym. She seems to know about need in Africa as she recently stole a small boy to adopt from there, presumably to give him a better future). Tax 'em I say-- make them bleed!! Then spend the taxes collected on providing the services we all agree we need. Roads, schools, hospitals, housing ... and lots more- as well as foreign AID not foreign WAR. We need to ensure that those elected to government understand that it is not the taxes that are the problem but the uses to which they are put that upsets people.

Rev- That sounds like an amazing childhood- I had a childhood friend who emigrated to St John's many years ago, and her stories always verged on the exotic!!


[quote=Mike Kremer] 2 Ellis

Tax the rich make 'em bleed....I used to think exactly the same.
especially when you hear of these huge salarys, plus yearly bonuses.
But I dont think like that anymore. Because as soon as you tax the very rich, they-up-stakes and leave the country.
Originally the very rich in the UK were hard working educated entrepreneurs, who paid 19/6d in (thats 95p on every 100p) earned above a certain threshold. They soon left the UK to work in the US. Chemists Doctors Physicists Company directors all left our shores by the hundreds. Leaving us devoid of the people we needed to build up a country. It was our loss.
These days if boffins emigrate its not because of taxes, (we now have the lowest taxes in Europe). Its because the Americans are able to attract the top people by paying them top wages.
Money talks, no country can afford to lose its millionaires thru taxing them to highly.
I can understand your feelings regarding those in the entertainment industry, Madonna included, but just where would you draw the line? Her investments in property and interest earned on her money, must account for something? At least she earned it honestly.
How about lottery millionaires their winnings are totally tax free?
_________________________
.

.
"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.



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#24689 - 01/26/08 10:22 PM Re: Money- too much or too little [Re: Mike Kremer]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
A PLAN AD INFINITUM
===================
Good dialogue, everyone. Let's keep working on it until we come up with a moral and ethical economic plan, which will be a win/win one for everyone--even for the well off.

BTW, I reject a zero sum plan, or game--one where someone has to lose.
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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