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http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/4041/

Dr. Don B. DeYoung demonstrates how his religious convictions interfere with scientific judgement:

"The second basic law of nature also involves energy. It describes unavoidable losses in any process whatsoever which involves the transfer of energy. The energy does not disappear, but some always becomes unavailable, often as unusable heat. Stated in another way, everything deteriorates, breaks down, and becomes less ordered with time. Ultimately, death itself is a consequence of the Second Law of Thermodynamics. This law is directly related to the Curse which was placed upon nature at the fall of mankind in Eden. [CMI Ed. note: See Arguments we think creationists should NOT use.]"

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I don't know a lot about the Laws of Thermodynamics-- but-- there is no such thing as a curse placed on mankind, or indeed, the Garden of Eden. Coincidences --yes, curses--no. And the Garden of Eden is a part of the Judaic Creation Myth. What is this guy on about?

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Originally Posted By: TheFallibleFiend

http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/4041/

Dr. Don B. DeYoung demonstrates how his religious convictions interfere with scientific judgement:

.... Ultimately, death itself is a consequence of the Second Law of Thermodynamics.


I wonder if they realize that also, ultimately, life itself is a consequence of the Second Law of Thermodynamics....

Hence, my favorite sentence:

"Life is just G0d's way of turning light into heat."




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Originally Posted By: samwik
Originally Posted By: TheFallibleFiend

http://www.creationontheweb.com/content/view/4041/

Dr. Don B. DeYoung demonstrates how his religious convictions interfere with scientific judgement:

.... Ultimately, death itself is a consequence of the Second Law of Thermodynamics.


I wonder if they realize that also, ultimately, life itself is a consequence of the Second Law of Thermodynamics....

Hence, my favorite sentence:

"Life is just G0d's way of turning light into heat."



What a load of unscientific cr-p. And I always thought it was
heat and light that kept life going...Not G.d
Cheers and Byeeeeee

Mike Kremer

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Yes Mike, it is exactly this "turning light into heat," that keeps "life going."

hmmmm....
Is it my substitution of the word G-d into the original quote; or is it the essence of the equation, to which you object?


If...
...original quote: "Life is just Nature's way of turning light into heat." -R. Dawson
...other version: Life is just the Universe's way of turning light into heat.
...more directly: Life is the most efficient way of turning light into heat.
...or even simply: Life is just a way of maximizing entropy.

Then...
Entropy favors the creation of life.


The reason that this above (post#24428), is my favorite phrase (funniest in its profundity), is that it attributes the loftiest of motives to the basest of forces.


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Originally Posted By: samwik
Yes Mike, it is exactly this "turning light into heat," that keeps "life going."

hmmmm....
Is it my substitution of the word G-d into the original quote; or is it the essence of the equation, to which you object?


No, I dont object to anything in your last post,
except that you misquoted me.

I said, "and I always thought that it was heat and light that kept life going"
I thought that was more scientific, shall we say more appropriate?
G.d dosnt come into it (science I mean).

Mike Kremer

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I watched a small part of a very good program the other day. It was something like "Secrets of the Psychics -- Revealed" and it was narrated by someone who sounded like Stacey Keech.

These are only a very few of the possible techniques used. Most I think would be more subtle.

My favorite was where a fake psychic gave the same scripted reading to 3 different people and all three thought it was dead on.

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TFF,
Y'know how people aren't very good at picking, or simulating, a random pattern, on their own?

I remember as a teenager, noticing that the astrology that my friends were getting into, could generate an "accurate reading" simply by picking random passages (thanks, HS math book).

The "resource of descriptions," whether entirely mental or contained within a book, is the key to success in any of these personality (or past/future life) inventories.

The methods such as the Astrology's alignment of planets, the hexagrams of I Ching, the symbology of Tarot cards, etc., simply reflects the process of successfully generating random "numbers," or citations.

p.s. sorry those last 2 sentences are poorly written, but I think you'll get the idea (pseudoscience as a random pattern generator). Busy day.... This might also read better from bottom to top?


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When I was in first year psychology (we were discussing the preconception of people's intelligence based on generalisations and appearance) ...we sat down in the lecture theatre and read the paper on our desk. The lecturer told us that she had looked up our birth dates in the class roll and had written an individual personality outline for each of us based on our star signs. I recognised many of my good points (!!) and a few bad ones. Then, of course, she asked someone to read theirs and all the predictions were the same.

It's as sam says:

The methods such as the Astrology's alignment of planets, the hexagrams of I Ching, the symbology of Tarot cards, etc., simply reflects the process of successfully generating random "numbers," or citations.

There are characteristics we all believe we have ... a sense of humour for example... and on the other hand most of us will agree we sometimes procrastinate. So to construct a psychic experience or a star chart it is easy to choose appropriate facts or events that are so general they are apt and seem to be insightful.


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Originally Posted By: Ellis
When I was in first year psychology (we were discussing the preconception of people's intelligence based on generalisations and appearance) ...we sat down in the lecture theatre and read the paper on our desk. The lecturer told us that she had looked up our birth dates in the class roll and had written an individual personality outline for each of us based on our star signs. I recognised many of my good points (!!) and a few bad ones. Then, of course, she asked someone to read theirs and all the predictions were the same.

It's as sam says:
The methods such as the Astrology's alignment of planets, the hexagrams of I Ching, the symbology of Tarot cards, etc., simply reflects the process of successfully generating random "numbers," or citations.

There are characteristics we all believe we have ... a sense of humour for example... and on the other hand most of us will agree we sometimes procrastinate. So to construct a psychic experience or a star chart it is easy to choose appropriate facts or events that are so general they are apt and seem to be insightful.


Yes, and....
Experience, insight, empathy, etc. also contribute to manipulating (interpreting) the effectiveness of personalized "readings."
...or words to that effect...?

But, I still don't know where to come down on NQ ideas involving quantum effects and the observer/system entanglement problems when talking about random number generators (especially combined with things like insight, empathy, and even experience).


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p.s... something I recently learned....

Pluto is on the cusp, entering Capricorn this month.

I've already started seeing Big Changes. Hang on....


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samwick advised...

Pluto is on the cusp, entering Capricorn this month.

I've already started seeing Big Changes. Hang on....



Wow- how intuitive you are, not to mention original and totally specific to every single Aquarian.

Am I missing the point if I suggest that it is the fact of the extremely random nature of the NQ ideas' input that could be affecting the random number generators (if in fact they do)? I mean much in the same way as I sometimes beat much superior players of chess than me because I just leap around all over the place and don't follow a set play. It annoys them no end!! and it's sometimes successful! OK -rarely- but heaps of fun when it is. But the lack of experience, predictablity etc. is what throws them I think, rather than insight. I simply am mot following the rules in a sensible and logical way preferred by more skilful players.

I'd rather believe that than think some people can make their numbers come up, or foretell the future.

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Originally Posted By: Ellis
Wow- how intuitive you are, not to mention original and totally specific to every single Aquarian.

I'd rather believe that [see above] than think some people can make their numbers come up, or foretell the future.


How'd you know I'm an Aquarian? [not in profile]
... but my birthday IS coming up in about a month!

Finally, I'll get my Kindle!

Ellis,
Yes, I know, there's no way to tell; or even both could be operating.

Serendipity and Synergy. Viva!


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OOOOOOO!!! This is spooky because I was referring to myself!! I too am an Aquarian.

Now what was that about random number generation and magical thinking? Maybe it's just coincidence....and that has to be yet another story.


Can you explain Kindle??? (but only if its polite).

I
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without thinking that is against the norm. we wouldent of picked up that first tool or stood up on 2 legs to walk. so if it wassent for that first ape that got laughed at for standing on 2 legs; we might not be here right now to debate this.

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about Kindle....
...hot kindle....

Back on Nov.20, above, I talked a bit about this.
http://www.scienceagogo.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=24345#Post24345

It's an o-book (online "e-book"); online like a cell phone, but through amazon.com you get any book for 10 bucks (all within a couple of minutes).
Also for FREE, browse wikipedia AND the first chapter of any book out there!
There's lots of reviews and ads if you google "kindle," or just go to amazon.
...and it doesn't get hot!

...BOT

iseldoff1,
There's a difference between "magical" thinking, and outside-o'-th'-box thinking. Do I hear a hint of the Adam & Eve story? Was that yours, is1? We should make a Lost List!

Ellis,
LOL Fellow Aquarian. smile

The thing about controlled experiments is that they are too removed from the context of the reality where these quantum connections happen; there is no "need" for the effect to occur (except to please the scientist). I think that's similar to the way Carlos Castaneda put it.

Reminds me of the "Theory of Love" where we were talking about love as a tangible "dimension."
Sure hope to see coberst's inspiration back around here soon.

smile


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Really good video on Bible Codes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2IMDAeWLsU

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...... so if it wassent for that first ape that got laughed at for standing on 2 legs; we might not be here right now to debate this.

I'll be picky and point out that an 'ape' did not 'stand on two legs' and become a human.


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