Welcome to
Science a GoGo's
Discussion Forums
Please keep your postings on-topic or they will be moved to a galaxy far, far away.
Your use of this forum indicates your agreement to our terms of use.
So that we remain spam-free, please note that all posts by new users are moderated.


The Forums
General Science Talk        Not-Quite-Science        Climate Change Discussion        Physics Forum        Science Fiction

Who's Online Now
0 members (), 321 guests, and 2 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Posts
Top Posters(30 Days)
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
#24418 01/09/08 03:19 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,940
T
Megastar
OP Offline
Megastar
T
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,940

http://www.gate.net/~rwms/hum_ape_chrom.html

Great Apes have 48 chromosomes. We have 46. Geneticists believe that the common ancestor between humans and great apes had 48 chromosomes, since HC2 appears to be a fusion of chromosomes 12 and 13 from the Great Apes.

.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
P
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
P
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
I was going to reply using Oscar the ape man.

but I cant find it anymore , remember the ape that had 46 chromosomes?

he was a science experiment I think , perhaps he was cloned.

anyway we can produce something similar to apes , but can apes produce something similar to humans?

















3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,940
T
Megastar
OP Offline
Megastar
T
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,940

Oliver was his name.
According to this site:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_(chimpanzee)
he had a normal number of chromosomes for a chimpanzee.

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,940
T
Megastar
OP Offline
Megastar
T
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,940

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,490
E
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
E
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,490
That is a great video, very interesting graphics at the start too. I have always been amazed that such devastating results can result from a tiny fault in a tiny chromosome. And such devastation will then occur in every cell in the body. It is extraordinary and chaotic,- but brilliant as it allows for so many chance mutations, even though such mutations could sometimes be unhelpful to the individual. (I know this is bit NQS -sorry)

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
P
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
P
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
Thanks TFF
I remembered the name on my way to the bank today,
and wished I had thought of it earlier while I was replying to your post.

this is an excerpt from the link you provided.

Quote:
Oliver is a Common Chimpanzee and a former performing ape once promoted as a missing link or "Humanzee" due to an unusually human-like face and a tendency to walk upright. Despite his somewhat unusual appearance and behavior, Oliver is, genetically speaking, a normal chimpanzee.[1]





he walks upright.
he has an unusually human like face.

but he has normal chimpanzee chromosomes.

So did it take a change in ape chromosomes in order for humans
to begin to walk upright and to begin to look like humans?

according to this ape it did not.

perhaps that is because humans did not evolve from apes !

perhaps it is because apes evolved from humans !

and it was more about environmental surroundings than it was
evolution / natural selection.
I wonder how far under the sea the real evidence is...




Last edited by paul; 01/10/08 02:46 AM.

3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
P
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
P
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
Prehistoric ape man living in modern times.
well hes not really prehistoric , you betcha.

Bassou: Man-Ape Hybrid?



now if only there was an example of this type , of an ape that
is living in the wild being shunned by other apes because he resembled a human ... figure the odds.




Last edited by paul; 01/10/08 04:05 AM.

3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,940
T
Megastar
OP Offline
Megastar
T
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,940
Are you aware of any scientific sources of information on Bassou?

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
P
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
P
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
Quote:
Are you aware of any scientific sources of information on Bassou?


you know trying to find "scientific" sources , would imply that you were trying to find a scientific outcast scientist.

even if "scientific" information had been gathered , it would quickly be swept away under a rug or burried in some hidden place from the "normal" scientific community.

I hold that when "any" type of deviance from the "norm" breaks into the light , that light is snuffed out , until there is a
growing number of "scientist" that can agree on the new findings ,until then the new findings are scoffed at , those who uphold the new findings are ridiculed , and become "scientific" outcast.

This man exibits a tendancy of humans to become ape like.

He is here now , he is not some bones that were dug up , that are millions of years old.

Yet , your right ... Are you aware of any scientific sources of information on Bassou?

Are you?




Last edited by paul; 01/10/08 04:22 PM.

3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
P
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
P
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
I found this German article that kind of backs me up.
http://de.geocities.com/anubiscly/Azzo.htm

Translated it reads as follows...

Quote:
1931 became in the N? from Marrakesch (Morocco) a menschen?liche creature discovers.
Eye-witnesses, who visited him in the following years, beschieben it, as a "wild idiot".
it reported, more da?er in a H?e lived and ausschlie?ich of raw meat ern?te themselves.
The Gesichtsz? , lie?n no us of this man today admitted themselves race assign.
With an exception!
With its fleeing forehead, the wulstigen nose and also the K?erbau, he reminded very strongly of a Neandertaler.

But from where came this man, who was called Azzo Bassou?
Was it real m?ich, which was he a still existing, pr?strorischer Neandertaler?
But unfortunately this question could be never answered correctly.

As differently not to be expected, hardly still reports few pictures are received and also only from this time.
Also the professional world, showed at that time none much gro?s interest.

Center of the f?ziger years, remembered the franz?che writer Jean Boullet, at "Vorzeitmen".
It was one of the few, which had visited Azzo Bassou already before.
In the Moroccan Vall?du Dad? he wanted to find out, what from it had become.
Azzo Bassou was still alive and Jean Boullet succeeded it it again to fotographieren.
Also Marcel Homet, a franz?scher Ethnologe, which was st?ig on the search, after traces of past civilizations, took some photographs of the mutma?ichen Neandertaler.

A further expedition, from which Italian "Associazione Studi Preistorici Internazionale", which wanted to employ a study?r Azzo Bassou, drove at the beginning of the seventies again into the area, where he lived.
But at this time, the premature Neandertaler had already deceased.
The expedition participants conversed with the Dorf?esten and other village inhabitants, which still knew Azzo Bassou.
There experienced they, which was buried Azzo in the oasis Sidi Fillah and its grave was inviolable.
In the "confidence", the participants one erz?t, which had concerned it with Azzo no normal humans.
Most time, he ran naked duch the area, used only vestige? Ger? and was also only able, some, to speak usually also unverst?liche words.

F?die expedition, was very unfortunate it, da?Azzo no longer alive was.
But the Dorf?este announced it with two women.
Were the sisters Hisa and Herkaia.
One called it last related Azzo's.
The two women, who look strong of their ago?lichkeit with Azzo had, mu?en usually the heavy work to perform.

But whether the two women were really related to it to unfortunately it will not leave itself, no more kl?n.
There Azzo's grave f?die village inhabitants somewhat special is inviolable and therefore, can no genetic investigations be also unfortunately employed.

Thus becomes probably never clear gekl? it becomes k?en whether it really concerned the last Neandertaler.


also the professional world, showed at that time no very large interest.

the professional world showed no interest in researching such an obvious finding , that might interfere with the "norm" , you see as long as the norm seems to be socially accepted even if its wrong , why change it...

even if its wrong !!

the proffesional world "scientific community" tends to cover up things like evidence , its almost a miracle that this man lived long at all.

but I guess he was no real threat , as he was ignored.

Just like energy is covered up by the norm

SMOT a basic truth something not found when energy is concerned

Last edited by paul; 01/10/08 05:51 PM.

3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,696
M
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
M
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,696
Originally Posted By: paul
I found this German article that kind of backs me up.
http://de.geocities.com/anubiscly/Azzo.htm

Translated it reads as follows...

Quote:
1931 became in the N? from Marrakesch (Morocco) a menschen?liche creature discovers.
Eye-witnesses, who visited him in the following years, beschieben it, as a "wild idiot".
it reported, more da?er in a H?e lived and ausschlie?ich of raw meat ern?te themselves.
The Gesichtsz? , lie?n no us of this man today admitted themselves race assign.
With an exception!
With its fleeing forehead, the wulstigen nose and also the K?erbau, he reminded very strongly of a Neandertaler.

But from where came this man, who was called Azzo Bassou?
Was it real m?ich, which was he a still existing, pr?strorischer Neandertaler?
But unfortunately this question could be never answered correctly.

As differently not to be expected, hardly still reports few pictures are received and also only from this time.
Also the professional world, showed at that time none much gro?s interest.

Center of the f?ziger years, remembered the franz?che writer Jean Boullet, at "Vorzeitmen".
It was one of the few, which had visited Azzo Bassou already before.
In the Moroccan Vall?du Dad? he wanted to find out, what from it had become.
Azzo Bassou was still alive and Jean Boullet succeeded it it again to fotographieren.
Also Marcel Homet, a franz?scher Ethnologe, which was st?ig on the search, after traces of past civilizations, took some photographs of the mutma?ichen Neandertaler.

A further expedition, from which Italian "Associazione Studi Preistorici Internazionale", which wanted to employ a study?r Azzo Bassou, drove at the beginning of the seventies again into the area, where he lived.
But at this time, the premature Neandertaler had already deceased.
The expedition participants conversed with the Dorf?esten and other village inhabitants, which still knew Azzo Bassou.
There experienced they, which was buried Azzo in the oasis Sidi Fillah and its grave was inviolable.
In the "confidence", the participants one erz?t, which had concerned it with Azzo no normal humans.
Most time, he ran naked duch the area, used only vestige? Ger? and was also only able, some, to speak usually also unverst?liche words.

F?die expedition, was very unfortunate it, da?Azzo no longer alive was.
But the Dorf?este announced it with two women.
Were the sisters Hisa and Herkaia.
One called it last related Azzo's.
The two women, who look strong of their ago?lichkeit with Azzo had, mu?en usually the heavy work to perform.

But whether the two women were really related to it to unfortunately it will not leave itself, no more kl?n.
There Azzo's grave f?die village inhabitants somewhat special is inviolable and therefore, can no genetic investigations be also unfortunately employed.

Thus becomes probably never clear gekl? it becomes k?en whether it really concerned the last Neandertaler.


also the professional world, showed at that time no very large interest.

the professional world showed no interest in researching such an obvious finding , that might interfere with the "norm" , you see as long as the norm seems to be socially accepted even if its wrong , why change it...

even if its wrong !!

the proffesional world "scientific community" tends to cover up things like evidence , its almost a miracle that this man lived long at all.

but I guess he was no real threat , as he was ignored.

Just like energy is covered up by the norm

SMOT a basic truth something not found when energy is concerned


SMOT ???????????????????????

Trying to promote Hungarian Anti-semetism now are you?

Shame on you. Get a Scientific life, instead of posting
all your Cr-p. Byeeeeeee

Mike Kremer

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
P
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
P
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
Quote:
SMOT ???????????????????????

Trying to promote Hungarian Anti-semetism now are you?

Shame on you. Get a Scientific life, instead of posting
all your Cr-p. Byeeeeeee

Mike Kremer


SMOT simple magnetic overunity toy

Dont get your panties in a wad mike , Im not prejudice

talking about jumping off at tangents !!

sometimes you need to open the (door/link) to see whats behind it , unless your certain that you already know.





Last edited by paul; 01/12/08 04:50 PM.

3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,490
E
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
E
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,490
There are many variations on 'normal' human appearance, this is one. I have absolutely no doubt that Bassou, tested properly, would conform to the human genome profile. Chromosome abnormalities produce many aberrations, which most of us never see, and this is in addition to the enormous variation we also allow to 'normal' humans.

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,490
E
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
E
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,490
So, Anon, your point is....? This ancient story from the NYT merely states that such creatures had been found. I would still maintain that there are many chromosome aberrations which would allow for such an appearance without altering the fact that the chromosome profile would be human not ape.

Last edited by Ellis; 08/10/08 01:23 AM. Reason: spelling!
M
marry
Unregistered
marry
Unregistered
M
Remember 'Roundup' the Glyphosphate chemical developed by Monsanto. Roundup killed all the weeds on farmers fields, allowing him to produce more crops per acre, year after year.

good luck

Last edited by marry; 06/08/10 06:33 AM.
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 410
I
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
I
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 410
Originally Posted By: paul

So did it take a change in ape chromosomes in order for humans
to begin to walk upright and to begin to look like humans?

according to this ape it did not.

perhaps that is because humans did not evolve from apes !

perhaps it is because apes evolved from humans !


Humans ARE apes.

Apes evolved first, then the chimp/human ancestor. We're simply a divergent arm within the ape clade.

Bryan


UAA...CAUGCUAUGAUGGAACGAACAAUUAUGGAA
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 410
I
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
I
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 410
Originally Posted By: paul



now if only there was an example of this type , of an ape that
is living in the wild being shunned by other apes because he resembled a human ... figure the odds.


That's a human with developmental disorder, specifically some type of cephalic disorder (there are many). Given his race, the apparent lack of asymmetry in his skull (as far as we can tell from this angle), and the fact he reached adulthood, he most likely has microcephaly - a developmental disorder caused by a mutation in the microcephalin gene:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcephaly

There are a range of other mutations, as well as infectious diseases and teratogens (alcohol, for example) that could have caused this kind of cranial malformation.

No need for cross-species matings, or anything like that - just day-to-day human genetics and fetal development.

Bryan


UAA...CAUGCUAUGAUGGAACGAACAAUUAUGGAA
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
P
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
P
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,136
you must be smoking the left handed cigarettes bryan

because this is what I said:

now if only there was an example of this type , of an ape that
is living in the wild being shunned by other apes because he resembled a human ... figure the odds.

this man is clearly human , he is being shunned by humans.

what I meant was:

now if only there was an example of this type , of an ape that
is living in the wild being shunned by other apes because he resembled a human ... figure the odds.

not that it really matters to me , because I dont consider things you say as being important.


3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 410
I
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
I
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 410
Originally Posted By: paul
you must be smoking the left handed cigarettes bryan

because this is what I said:

now if only there was an example of this type , of an ape that
is living in the wild being shunned by other apes because he resembled a human ... figure the odds.


You titled your link as being a half-man, half-ape hybrid. I simply pointed out that was not the case.

But apes do shun other apes with congenital malformations - in fact, apes with malformed babies will usually abandon them.

Its (shunning, not necessarily infant abandonment) is pretty normal animal behavior, not just something limited to apes like us humans.

Bryan

Last edited by ImagingGeek; 06/09/10 09:22 PM.

UAA...CAUGCUAUGAUGGAACGAACAAUUAUGGAA
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Newest Members
debbieevans, bkhj, jackk, Johnmattison, RacerGT
865 Registered Users
Sponsor

Science a GoGo's Home Page | Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Contact UsokÂþ»­¾W
Features | News | Books | Physics | Space | Climate Change | Health | Technology | Natural World

Copyright © 1998 - 2016 Science a GoGo and its licensors. All rights reserved.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5