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#23921 - 10/18/07 02:45 AM Magnetic Poles Shifting
Wyldfire Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/18/07
Posts: 20
I will admit it has been a while since I delved into the world of sceince although its something I have always be interested in and most of my knowledge that I have gained is probably a little dated.

I seem to remember being taught that the magnetic poles of the world have been slowly shifting, in the back of my mind I have always wondered if that would have had any effect on climate change.

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#23922 - 10/18/07 03:09 AM Re: Magnetic Poles Shifting [Re: Wyldfire]
Chris Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/05/07
Posts: 22
This is a topic with a lot of question marks in the scientific community. To my knowledge, it is getting weaker, but we don't know any timescales, where we would be in the shift, what it might do to climate or ecosystems, etc. Certainly no consensus has emerged despite a lot of study, and I've not done too much research into the topic but I know that through paleomagentism we know when they have reversed in the past, and there have been dozens upon dozens of reversals, and I'm sure there is a great deal of correlating between that and paleoenvironments to look for what it might do to climates and biology and other things, but for prediction I would not rely on it. Certainly would be interesting to get more details, and it is always interesting for scientists to learn "new physics." Perhaps if I can find a good paleomagnetist I will e-mail him

A lot of reversals here to explain the changes we're having today. I don't think we have anything past 160 mya because of plate tectonics (we don't have seafloor past about 200 million years old)-- Chris




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#23957 - 10/19/07 08:13 AM Re: Magnetic Poles Shifting [Re: Chris]
terrytnewzealand Offline
Megastar

Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 1031
Loc: Whangarei New Zealand
Chris wrote:

"I don't think we have anything past 160 mya because of plate tectonics (we don't have seafloor past about 200 million years old)"

Yes, and the vast majority of the sea floor is younger than half that age. However earlier magnetic reversals show up in rock erupted as lava. As the rock cooled the magnetic direction was set in it. And, as you hint, magnetic reversals surprisingly seem to have no effect on life.

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#23959 - 10/19/07 10:19 AM Re: Magnetic Poles Shifting [Re: Wyldfire]
Mike Kremer Offline

Megastar

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 1696
Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: Wyldfire

.........................................>
I seem to remember being taught that the magnetic poles of the world have been slowly shifting, in the back of my mind I have always wondered if that would have had any effect on climate change.


Hi and welcome.
I will try to keep on topic when you ask if our Magnetic poles could influence our climate?
Interesting question... All I can say is maybe?
Our North magnetic Pole hovers around N Canada at the moment.
But our South Magnetic pole is just off South Africa.

The Mag.poles protect us from the Suns ionic particles and cosmic rays by attracting them.
Now since our North mag pole is very close to our geographic pole
may be thats why our North pole is warming?
And our South pole is not?
The South African Magnetic pole not being anywhere as near to the Antartica South pole, as our N Mag pole is to the Artic.
Prehaps the attracted amounts of cosmic particles raining down upon the Artic are tending to warm it?

Theres a lot of discussions about Global Warming going on in
our forum,, under 'Climate Change' at the moment.

Incidentally our Sun reverses its Magnetic Poles every eleven years.

I expect the interval between our Earths magnetic reversals will tend to lengthen, since our internal liquid molten dynamoe must eventually, cool and become more fixed in time.

_________________________
.

.
"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.



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#24187 - 11/06/07 03:54 PM Re: Magnetic Poles Shifting [Re: Mike Kremer]
Max Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/07
Posts: 93
The Earth's magnetic field is a topic that I have spent much time studying. Unfortunately, I have little time these days to participate in these forums. I tried to discuss this with my first post here, and received a "warm" welcome from the belligerent purple people eater. LOL! Such bitterness!

Anyway, I have many ideas about the field that need further research. So, I'll just give you a couple of ideas and a couple of links, and hope that I don't get my head bit off. lol

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Crack in field above the Arctic the size of California...

"In the new observations, the Imager for Magnetopause to Aurora Global Exploration (IMAGE) satellite revealed an area almost the size of California in the arctic upper atmosphere where a 75-megawatt "proton aurora" flared for hours. A proton aurora is a form of Northern Lights caused by heavy solar ions striking Earth's upper atmosphere, causing it to emit ultraviolet light--invisible to the human eye but detectable by the Far Ultraviolet Imager on IMAGE. While this aurora was being recorded by IMAGE, the 4-satellite Cluster constellation flew far above IMAGE, directly through the crack, and detected solar wind ions streaming through it."

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2003/03dec_magneticcracks.htm

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The field started weakening right when the little ice age ended, and is moving four times faster than normal. This is another old article from 03, and I have heard that the pole is now crossing Siberia at record speed...But I haven't verified this.

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2003/29dec_magneticfield.htm

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Any website on magnetic refrigeration should explain how a weakening magnetic field will affect the magnetic dipoles of atoms and cause warming.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_refrigeration#Thermodynamic_cycle

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have a strong feeling that the Magnetic field is responsible for evolution. Our brainwaves are tuned to the frequency of the field, and if it changes, I have no doubt that we will mutate. Also, I wonder if some mental disorders are linked to people who are slightly "out of tune" and can be cured by a device to adjust the frequency to "tune them in". A crude example would be a helmet that generates Schuman resonances in the same frequency as their brain.

I have many more ideas about the field...but, that's all they are...ideas. I wouldn't be surprised if all of the following are related to a weakening field, or frequency change.

El Nino, hurricanes, tornados, earthquakes, volcanoes, higher cancer rates, climate change, Triangle phenomenon, faster moving magnetic poles, stronger or more frequent geomagnetic storms causing power blackouts, communication blackouts, migratory animal problems, animals sensing earthquakes.....and so on.

Thank you for your time.


Edited by Max (11/06/07 04:41 PM)

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#24192 - 11/06/07 08:37 PM Re: Magnetic Poles Shifting [Re: Max]
John M Reynolds Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/14/06
Posts: 174
Loc: Canada
"Our brainwaves are tuned to the frequency of the field, and if it changes, I have no doubt that we will mutate." That is interesting how thoughts can affect DNA. Too bad that is off topic for this thread.

Chris' picture is interesting. If a strong field is associated with an ice age, could a weak field be associated with interglacial periods? That could be a definate link to climate change.

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#24194 - 11/06/07 10:45 PM Re: Magnetic Poles Shifting [Re: John M Reynolds]
Max Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/07
Posts: 93
"That is interesting how thoughts can affect DNA"

No, not thoughts. Radiation.

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#24203 - 11/07/07 04:34 PM Re: Magnetic Poles Shifting [Re: Max]
Max Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/07
Posts: 93

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#24209 - 11/07/07 09:24 PM Re: Magnetic Poles Shifting [Re: Max]
John M Reynolds Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/14/06
Posts: 174
Loc: Canada
If the radiation field frequency changes then our DNA changes? So then the radiation field frequency must be keeping our DNA stable....

Could this affect plants' ability to photosynthesize (and trap carbon). They have DNA. It would not just be humans that are susecptable to changes the radiation field frequency.

Your last link raises another question. It says, "... analysis of better datasets using geostatistics and statistical-regression indicates global temperatures respond significantly to variations in Earth’s magnetic-field strength."

If it the field strength, then once it reverses, it will start to become stronger. The negative effects would be at their worst when the field goes through the zero mark.

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#24212 - 11/08/07 01:24 AM Re: Magnetic Poles Shifting [Re: John M Reynolds]
Max Offline
Member

Registered: 02/18/07
Posts: 93
“The negative effects would be at their worst when the field goes through the zero mark.”

“zero mark”...lol. Wouldn’t the earth have to stop spinning first?
Ouch! That would be an extinction event. This link shows how a reversal works. It might weaken, but we will still have a field. The frequency is what worries me.
http://www.es.ucsc.edu/%7Eglatz/geodynamo.html

“Could this affect plants' ability to photosynthesize (and trap carbon). They have DNA. It would not just be humans that are susceptible to changes the radiation field frequency.”

“Radiation field frequency”...Well, okay.
Change...Yes. I couldn’t begin to guess how it would change, though. I’m not familiar with this aspect. However, I would hate to imagine how it could cause embryo mutation. I’m sure the tolerance levels would be different for most species.

Here's a google search, take your pick...
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Bioelectromagnetics&btnG=Google+Search

Yes, they have models, too. lol
http://www.ursi.org/Proceedings/ProcGA02/papers/p2229.pdf

I’ll try to find an old article on an experiment...no promises.


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#24316 - 11/16/07 05:07 PM Re: Magnetic Poles Shifting [Re: Max]
John M Reynolds Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/14/06
Posts: 174
Loc: Canada
Thanks for the links Max.

Perhaps you missed my question because I forgot my verb. Please let me correct my sentence:

If it is the field strength that matters, then once it reverses, it will start to become stronger. The negative effects would be at their worst when the field goes through the weakest level mark. Is this right?

When you say that it is the frequency that worries you, is that an electromagnetic (radiation field was just a term I built using your words) frequency or the number of reversals we have had in say the past million years?

Is there any way to predict, considering the present earth's heterogeneous heat flux, whether or not this particular reversal will be successful or if the field will just start to get stronger? Either way, can we even predict yet when the field should start to strengthen? Seeing as how we fail to understand when the next solar cycle will begin, I have my doubts as to our level of understanding of pole reversal.

The weakening happens slowly over time. The flip, I am guessing, would be quick (perahps a few years?), but then the re-strengthening would happen slowly too would it not? If we are soon to experience a re-strengthening, either just after a reversal or just after a failed reversal, could that indicate a coming ice age? Who is monitoring the current strength of the earth's magnetic field?

Is it possible that outside forces act upon the earth that may affect the earth's field orientation? I know the field is generated internally by the iron in the solid core and outer liquid core, but I am just curious if the Sun's magnetic field is sometimes big enough to affect the iron in our core. I realize that we may be too far away, but I am just asking.

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