Science a GoGo's Home Page Forums General Discussion Climate Change Forum Was Global Warming Planned 130 years ago?

Does anyone have access to old copies of the journal Nature? I found a very interesting article in the Dec 16, 1880 issue. (If I remember the date correctly) Curiously, Google pulled the issue as I was reading it. There was a detailed study from the RS on altering two land masses to allow the Gulf Stream to warm Western  Europe and open it up for agriculture. It was a very detailed study that claimed the Arctic would melt, Northern Canada would be suitable for agriculture, the Eastern USA would cool, and Japan and East Asia would have an ultimate climate. This study was reviewed by the journal, and it was determined that the Eastern USA would not cool.

Anyway, I did a little bit of research (really, not much at all) and found a couple of interesting photographs.

My first thought was, these land masses must be underwater. So, I used Google Earth to look for a land mass that might alter the current, and what I found left me with a couple of questions...

Are these lines natural? I couldn't find anything similar in the Atlantic.

Area of interest...
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p112/maxter-1/2.jpg

Lines in area...
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p112/maxter-1/g.jpg

Heat from the Gulf Stream reaching Europe and the Arctic
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p112/maxter-1/le-gulf-stream.jpg

Any comments?

Eighteen80????? If that's correct it is amazing. Certainly by 1980 the idea of there being changes in climate were being explored. For example I have a book I bought in the 70s, (& which was published in the 70s) called The Doomsday Book!! It has warming as a possibility. This is not new stuff.

Yes Max, those underwater seabed lines are real.

You found an interesting article, from which an interesting theory was formed.
Even if the implementing of land, or sea barriers were possible, one areas warming would mean anothers cooling, with problems.

Here is a quick way for anyone to look at the actual land shapes underneath the Oceans

Goto:- http://www.n2yo.com/?s=25544

Within the map that displays...click on SATELLITE (top right)

Then press and hold down left mouse button to scan ocean seafloor
Plus or minus key in Map, will give you zoom.

The map has been obtained over a number of years using sum-millimeter side looking Radar. Which amazingly averages out the wave heights on the oceans surface....and is thus able to actually read the small change in sea surface height, as the sea currents flow over the undersea topography.

There is a military Satellite that can detect moving submarines within the ocean........but thats classified.
I tried to find the Lomonosov Ridge that would legally allow Russia to claim the Oil riches under the North pole.

http://www.scienceagogo.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showthreaded&Number=22497#Post22497

Its either been blacked out...or I hav'nt used the right Satellite
PS. nearly forgot.IMPORTANT...Change the map to PAUSE( bottom)

Max asked:

"Are these lines natural?"

The lines at right angles to the mid-ocean ridges are fracture zones. Of course the mid-ocean ridge doesn't expand evenly along its whole length. So each little bit fractures. The Atlantic has the same sort of lines.

Mike, that satellite link is wonderful.

Thanks everyone. Is that satellite link different from Google Earth? I get the exact same 4 year old pictures that Google Earth gives. They both show that my old truck is still parked in front of my house, and I sold it 3 years ago. I would recommend Google Earth because it has more features, unless that link offers some way to view real time images?

Anyway, I'm not talking about the lines on the ridge, and yes, I do know they are "real". Please look at the circled area of interest. The lines I'm referring to are much, much, much smaller than the lines around the ridge. They are nowhere near the ridge, and are located between two mounds. I figure the lines were natural, but would like an explanation of how they were formed. These lines appear to be carved out, rather than raised like the lines on the ridges. A closer observation would be greatly appreciated. The area of interest is circled in the first map, the second map shows an extreme enlargement of the circled area. The study might have mentioned the land masses that needed to be altered. I didn't get to read the whole study because it was removed from the web. I just made a quick scan, looking for something that didn't look right, and these carved out lines were the first features to catch my attention. They probably are natural...just curious on how they formed between the mounds. What type of cross current, or other natural event, carved out these perfectly symmetrical straight lines, between the mounds, and not extending to the top surface of the mounds. Exactly "how" were these lines formed..The actual process that carved these lines between the mounds...If anyone happens to know. "They are real" is not the answer I'm after...that part is obvious, but thanks anyway.

Allowing warm water to reach Europe and the Arctic would not mean a cooling effect somewhere else. Due to thermoclines, the cooler water would sink. The RS study claimed that the Eastern USA would cool, but that was dismissed.

Now they are saying that even with their inflated figures, CO2 cannot account for their "current observations". However, this 130 year old plan not only accounts for their observations...It predicts them. The plan was to create more farmable land to feed the growing population. I have to wonder if something, somewhere, has been altered.

I haven't checked in over 20 years, but I seem to remember a strong thermocline just south of Iceland and don't remember the Norwegian Current to be as powerful as it is shown today. I find it obvious that a slight reduction in the Norwegian Current would reverse any of the claimed warming, and could even cause an ice age in some areas.

Texas trend...No warming here, and having a very cool year. The 4th coolest July on record, and even a very rare snowfall in March.
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p112/maxter-1/texas.gif

NCDC/NOAA, if anyone is interested..
http://lwf.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/cag3/cag3.htmldr

I would love to read the study again, in full this time. This wasn't a small article, it was a complete study with a review from the journal Nature.

Thanks again.

Max wrote-Texas trend...No warming here, and having a very cool year. The 4th coolest July on record, and even a very rare snowfall in March

Isn't this is exactly the sort of thing that is predicted to happen with climate change?l

Great photos everyone, I have just spent far too long playing with them! I've no idea if someone has been landscpae gardening under water, looks very natural to me as the result of drift, currents or storms etc.

Max, I get an error--not found on your second link. Do you have another reference?

Might be of interest to some here - over at climate audit, Steve McIntyre is looking only at long term rural stations, and to some people's surprise, isn't finding any (or neglible) upwards trend.
Hypothesis - warming shown in observed record is due to urbanization surrounding climate stations.

Lemme guess Max, that climate station you linked to is far away from any black asphalt?

So glad you liked it Terry.
I have been able to spot a few fabled lost ancient islands with it. Plus a strange circular 'sink hole' in the Black Sea. (Zoom mode is better)
Atlantis, is definately West of Gibraltar, shown out in the Atlantic very slightly to the North (NWW) Atlantis was known to Plato, who talked about them.
I guess they must only be about 20 ft under the sea, or less, to be shown the way they are!

Link correction...

http://lwf.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/cag3/cag3.html

Sorry, I knew my cat had stepped on the keyboard, but I didn't notice any damage. It looks like she added a dr to the address.

Canuck,
The graph was made from NCDC/NOAA data from the site above. I selected "annual" under "period". Texas does have a few suspicious stations, but most look like this one in San Antonio...

http://gallery.surfacestations.org/main.php?g2_itemId=15141