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#22416 - 06/26/07 11:27 PM Re: Local scientist calls global warming theory 'h [Re: BrianPatrix]
scpg02 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 217
Loc: Sacramento
Originally Posted By: BrianPatrix
The fact that they don't get published in peer-reviewed magazines has no doubt something to do with that their assertions can not be proven ...




http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/03/11/ngreen211.xml

Scientists threatened for 'climate denial'
By Tom Harper, Sunday Telegraph
Last Updated: 12:24am GMT 11/03/2007

Scientists who questioned mankind's impact on climate change have received death threats and claim to have been shunned by the scientific community.

They say the debate on global warming has been "hijacked" by a powerful alliance of politicians, scientists and environmentalists who have stifled all questioning about the true environmental impact of carbon dioxide emissions.
~snip~

_____________________________________________________________

Petition Project

Explanation

Listed below are 17,200 of the initial signers

During the past several years, more than 17,100 basic and applied American scientists, two-thirds with advanced degrees, have signed the Global Warming Petition.
S
igners of this petition so far include 2,660 physicists, geophysicists, climatologists, meteorologists, oceanographers, and environmental scientists (select this link for a listing of these individuals) who are especially well qualified to evaluate the effects of carbon dioxide on the Earth's atmosphere and climate.

Signers of this petition also include 5,017 scientists whose fields of specialization in chemistry, biochemistry, biology, and other life sciences (select this link for a listing of these individuals) make them especially well qualified to evaluate the effects of carbon dioxide upon the Earth's plant and animal life.

Nearly all of the initial 17,100 scientist signers have technical training suitable for the evaluation of the relevant research data, and many are trained in related fields. In addition to these 17,100, approximately 2,400 individuals have signed the petition who are trained in fields other than science or whose field of specialization was not specified on their returned petition.

Of the 19,700 signatures that the project has received in total so far, 17,800 have been independently verified and the other 1,900 have not yet been independently verified. Of those signers holding the degree of PhD, 95% have now been independently verified. One name that was sent in by enviro pranksters, Geri Halliwell, PhD, has been eliminated. Several names, such as Perry Mason and Robert Byrd are still on the list even though enviro press reports have ridiculed their identity with the names of famous personalities. They are actual signers. Perry Mason, for example, is a PhD Chemist.

The costs of this petition project have been paid entirely by private donations. No industrial funding or money from sources within the coal, oil, natural gas or related industries has been utilized. The petition's organizers, who include some faculty members and staff of the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine, do not otherwise receive funds from such sources. The Institute itself has no such funding. Also, no funds of tax-exempt organizations have been used for this project.

The signatures and the text of the petition stand alone and speak for themselves. These scientists have signed this specific document. They are not associated with any particular organization. Their signatures represent a strong statement about this important issue by many of the best scientific minds in the United States.

This project is titled "Petition Project" and uses a mailing address of its own because the organizers desired an independent, individual opinion from each scientist based on the scientific issues involved - without any implied endorsements of individuals, groups, or institutions.
_________________________
It's not Global Warming, it's Ice Age Abatement.

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#22417 - 06/26/07 11:35 PM Re: Local scientist calls global warming theory 'h [Re: scpg02]
BrianPatrix Offline
Member

Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 44
It is politics (i.e. opinions) only if one is not capable of .... Didn't Clarke say something about this like: "To the untrained mind, any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."?



Edited by BrianPatrix (06/26/07 11:37 PM)

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#22418 - 06/26/07 11:36 PM Re: Local scientist calls global warming theory 'h [Re: BrianPatrix]
scpg02 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 217
Loc: Sacramento
Originally Posted By: BrianPatrix
Originally Posted By: scpg02
I've read reports that said they have a hard time getting published. Even in the post here they said they lost grants because they weren't toeing the party line anymore.

Well, boohoo! See what scgp does? By using statements like toeing the party line she's making it sound like a political thing, something one can have an opinion about, like abortion, the death penalty or guncontrol.

Global warming is something which can be scientifically proven or disproven. Given the impressive amount of scientific organiza...nge is manmade, I say that the science is still on the MMGW side.

The fact that they don't get published in peer-reviewed magazines has no doubt something to do with that their assertions can not be proven ...



http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2007/1/23/93038.shtml?s=ic

Scientists Group's Funding 'Openly Political'

At a time when the Union of Concerned Scientists (UCS) is censuring free market organizations for accepting donations from ExxonMobil, critics have turned the spotlight back onto the UCS, its left-wing positions, and its own funding practices.

In a recent report, the UCS charged that organizations are using oil industry money to create public uncertainty about what it calls "consensus" about climate change and the role of human activity in affecting temperatures see related story. Organizations named in the report have denied the claims.

The UCS describes itself as an "alliance" of over 200,000 citizens and scientists that initially came together in 1969. It integrates "independent scientific research" with "citizen action" for the purpose of developing and implementing "changes to government policy, corporate practices and consumer choices."

But critics say it is an openly political group.
~snip~

____________________________________________________________

http://www.sepp.org/Archive/controv/ipcccont/Item05.htm

A Major Deception on Global Warming
Op-Ed by Frederick Seitz
Wall Street Journal, June 12, 1996

Last week the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, a United Nations organization regarded by many as the best source of scientific information about the human impact on the earth's climate, released "The Science of Climate Change 1995," its first new report in five years. The report will surely be hailed as the latest and most authoritative statement on global warming. Policy makers and the press around the world will likely view the report as the basis for critical decisions on energy policy that would have an enormous impact on U.S. oil and gas prices and on the international economy.

This IPCC report, like all others, is held in such high regard largely because it has been peer-reviewed. That is, it has been read, discussed, modified and approved by an international body of experts. These scientists have laid their reputations on the line. But this report is not what it appears to be--it is not the version that was approved by the contributing scientists listed on the title page. In my more than 60 years as a member of the American scientific community, including service as president of both the National Academy of Sciences and the American Physical Society, I have never witnessed a more disturbing corruption of the peer-review process than the events that led to this IPCC report.

A comparison between the report approved by the contributing scientists and the published version reveals that key changes were made after the scientists had met and accepted what they thought was the final peer-reviewed version. The scientists were assuming that the IPCC would obey the IPCC Rules--a body of regulations that is supposed to govern the panel's actions. Nothing in the IPCC Rules permits anyone to change a scientific report after it has been accepted by the panel of scientific contributors and the full IPCC.

The participating scientists accepted "The Science of Climate Change" in Madrid last November; the full IPCC accepted it the following month in Rome. But more than 15 sections in Chapter 8 of the report--the key chapter setting out the scientific evidence for and against a human influence over climate--were changed or deleted after the scientists charged with examining this question had accepted the supposedly final text.
~snip~
_________________________
It's not Global Warming, it's Ice Age Abatement.

Top
#22419 - 06/26/07 11:56 PM Re: Local scientist calls global warming theory 'h [Re: scpg02]
BrianPatrix Offline
Member

Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 44
And your point with this 10 year old newspaper article is ...?
Please come up with something more recent about the IPCC?

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#22421 - 06/26/07 11:59 PM Re: Local scientist calls global warming theory 'h [Re: BrianPatrix]
scpg02 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 217
Loc: Sacramento
Originally Posted By: BrianPatrix
And your point with this 10 year old newspaper article is ...?




_________________________
It's not Global Warming, it's Ice Age Abatement.

Top
#22423 - 06/27/07 01:01 AM Re: Local scientist calls global warming theory 'h [Re: scpg02]
BrianPatrix Offline
Member

Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 44
Originally Posted By: scpg02
Originally Posted By: BrianPatrix
And your point with this 10 year old newspaper article is ...?





Ah, we should be so lucky ...

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#22424 - 06/27/07 01:10 AM Re: Local scientist calls global warming theory 'h [Re: BrianPatrix]
BrianPatrix Offline
Member

Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 44
Oh, and that GW petition proves exactly nothing. It doesn't say that each of the 17000 has done research on the subject which was subsequently published in peer-reviewed magazines.
It just proves that 17.000 scientist wanted to play Mary-Mary-Quite-Contrary.

So far, I haven't seen ANY science reference from you, just:
1. Politics from the denier side
2. Opinions
3. A bit of Mamby-Pambying about the big boys are bullying you, (other scientist who actually did the work are getting the grants and your side doesn't)
Listen, I'm not saying that scientist aren't capable of politics, YOUR side certainly is, you HAVE proven that fact, I'm just saying: Where is their science?? (Preferably not articles that have been blasted since publication).

Bye bye now. Y'all be good now, you hear?

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#22543 - 06/30/07 12:38 PM Re: Local scientist calls global warming theory 'h [Re: BrianPatrix]
BrianPatrix Offline
Member

Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 44
Originally Posted By: BrianPatrix
Originally Posted By: scpg02
Originally Posted By: BrianPatrix
And your point with this 10 year old newspaper article is ...?





Ah, we should be so lucky ...


Of course I meant: If only that WERE your real head and that WAS a real brick wall .... wink wink j/k !



cool


Edited by BrianPatrix (06/30/07 12:41 PM)

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#22546 - 06/30/07 02:43 PM Re: Local scientist calls global warming theory 'h [Re: BrianPatrix]
scpg02 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/03/07
Posts: 217
Loc: Sacramento
_________________________
It's not Global Warming, it's Ice Age Abatement.

Top
#22570 - 07/01/07 01:58 PM Re: Local scientist calls global warming theory 'h [Re: scpg02]
Count Iblis II Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/21/05
Posts: 375
Originally Posted By: scpg02
I've read reports that said they have a hard time getting published. Even in the post here they said they lost grants because they weren't toeing the party line anymore.


Hard time getting published usually means that their articles are bogus. Assume for a moment that they don't get published for political reasons. Then you would expect there to be a lot of good quality research being done written up in high quality articles that don't get published. Scientists would not accept that, they would put their work on their home pages together with the flawed referee reports.

Of course, in reality there is no research that proves the consensus view wrong. There are no articles that report on that. There are just unfounded criticism that are published in newspapers like the Wall Street Journal. The readers of these newspapers don't have a clue about how science works in practice.

Not getting grants would put the scientists with alternative views at a disadvantage, but it doesn't explain why no publishable material has been produced by these nay sayers. I guess that'S then the very reason why such people cannot get grants, because scientists are expected to be productive and not waste their time writing nonsensical comments on their personal blogs or in the Wall Street Journal.


Edited by Count Iblis II (07/01/07 01:59 PM)

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#22978 - 07/29/07 12:51 PM Re: Local scientist calls global warming theory 'h [Re: Count Iblis II]
BrianPatrix Offline
Member

Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 44
Count, you've said it much more eloquent than I could. I'm gonna steal your phrases, count on that.
Glad to see there's some sanity out there.
It boggles the mind to consider the tenacity of the Pollutionists side, to come up with all sorts of smear campaigns and such.

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#23004 - 07/30/07 01:44 PM Re: Local scientist calls global warming theory 'h [Re: redewenur]
John M Reynolds Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/14/06
Posts: 174
Loc: Canada
The madison link does not work. Is it just too old?

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#23018 - 07/31/07 12:32 PM Re: Local scientist calls global warming theory 'h [Re: John M Reynolds]
BrianPatrix Offline
Member

Registered: 06/18/07
Posts: 44
maybe the madison people came to their senses and found that global warming, after all, IS man-made

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