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I would allow malicious.... because maybe malice indicates a degree of strategic intent, or at least some degree of analysis. Actually I think blinkered incompetence, (and a dash of vanity), truly describes this particular tragedy.

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Ellis wrote:

"I think blinkered incompetence, (and a dash of vanity), truly describes this particular tragedy".

Blinkered incompetence describes the lack of planning for any possible resistance on the part of the population but the deceit and lies used to justify the original invasion demonstrate cynical strategic intent. They even fooled poor old Colin Powell. I wonder why no attempt has been made to hold those responsible accountable?

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Oh I had forgotten poor old Colin- I think he was an honourable man made to look foolish. I think that noone wants to stir that particular possum-- just imagine what may emerge. I think that deceit is part of the mess too, and all those deaths, on both sides, would have to lie on someone's conscience.

To hark back to the original topic - we are evolving quite nastily. If I had created this planet I think I'd be wishing I'd stuck with the dinosaurs, at least you would know where you were with them!

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Back to the subject. Here are some sites that clear the problem up for us sceptics. I'm sure they'll convince us all that Noah's ark is not just another myth:

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/dino_ark.html

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-c013.html

http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v19/i2/animals.asp

And this one even explains why they died out once Noah had released them:

http://www.christiananswers.net/dinosaurs/j-fate2.html

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Staggering stuff, Terry.

My impression is...

... that Creationists are at the end of their rope with a fear that drives them to desperate lengths to bury reality beneath fantasy. There have always been truly horrendous conditions of life endured by many millions. There is cause enough for fear in any rational heart. There are certainly times when we all have difficulty dealing with objective truth - it can often be very unpleasant, to say the least. So, maybe I should feel more sympathy for Creationists. Yet burying the head in the proverbial sand doesn't even begin to meet the challenge of improving the world. Ultimately, reality has to be faced. If there are solutions to be found, science and a rational system of ethics will find them.


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Thanks terry - I needed to start the week with a laugh and the tiny, titchy dinosaur theory raised my spirits beautifully. Check the startled expression on the rabbit! And where did the idea of small mountains come from? Do people believe this rubbish? I know I keep asking that but honestly, it's really, really silly!!!! I am going to have to start treating it all with more respect like rede does.

So I'll, seriously, ask why believing such rubbish makes more sense to anyone than scientific historical truth. And why focus so much on dinosaurs?--could it be they are SO saleable and Disney has done the donkey work in marketting? Truth too hard----cue in Fantasy--yes that sounds like Disney!!!

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Ellis: "I am going to have to start treating it all with more respect like rede does."

Alas, keeping a straight face just makes it worse frown :

I was chatting with my friend Tom last night. I happened to mention SAGG, and Terry's links above. I told him about the person who wrote several paragraphs about...how they got the dinosaurs onto the Ark. It was a serious chat, and what I told Tom was just matter of fact. But the result was he nearly choked on his beer and was splitting his sides for several minutes. grin



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Glad you all enjoyed it folks. Ellis asked, "why believing such rubbish makes more sense to anyone than scientific historical truth." I think it's summed up in this link:

http://www.soulcare.org/Bible%20Studies/Genesis/Genesis6v14-7v24-Ark-Animals.html

Quote: "if a person doubts the Bible's accuracy about Noah's Ark, then for that person, the entire Bible looses its absolute authority in every other area in which it speaks ... Peter, and most significantly, Jesus, all present this story as historically accurate. In fact, it's historical validity is an essential cornerstone undergirding the very gospel in which we trust. If the story of Noah is not literally true as claimed by the writers of Scripture, then the promise of eternal life in Christ would be no more trustworthy than a fable."

Yes. If it's not literally true then the whole Bible is open to interpretation, God forbid (sorry, couldn't resist).

Here's another titbit from the link:

"Our CREATOR originally created many different types of creatures, each kind having a DNA genome capable of a vast potential for variation within that kind."

Really? Now perhaps someone can explain this to me. Each individual can have a maximum of only two variations for each gene. So two individuals can have a total of only four. Just these four variations have given rise to all the dog kinds?

One more regarding dinosaurs:

"Noah certainly would have taken young or even baby animals on the ark, not full grown adults of every kind. Even T. Rex eggs are smaller than a football, folks."

Wonder what he used as an incubator?

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"I was chatting with my friend Tom last night. I happened to mention SAGG, and Terry's links above. I told him about the person who wrote several paragraphs about...how they got the dinosaurs onto the Ark. It was a serious chat, and what I told Tom was just matter of fact. But the result was he nearly choked on his beer and was splitting his sides for several minutes."

That's awesome. And terrytnewzealand's post is humorous as well. Good one.

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And feeding the hoards of little baby animls would have been beyond challenging-what about the baby mammals with all their specialised milk requirements? (no don't suggest pigs ANYONE), plus the meat requirements of baby dinosaurs and grass for elephants and what about the whales, did they just bob along beside the Ark? It doesn't make sense and people believe it? Personally if I were a believer of this nonsense I would be happier to believe that the divine being helped and I had to have faith that it happened as stated ...or that it was arranged by aliens and it is in fact DNA not animals and they decanted them at the end. Actually I think the latter silly theory makes far more sense really!!

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Ellis wrote:

"or that it was arranged by aliens and it is in fact DNA not animals and they decanted them at the end."

I actually know people who believe that. I keep trying to point out to them the whole story is most likely a myth. The story may have originated through the survival of a Mesopotamian farmer along with his family and livestock but there's no need to explain anything more complicated. But biblical beliefs are so deeply ingrained that even people who would claim not to be Christian still try to come up with explanations for biblical stories. Crazy, isn't it.

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Yes, certainly resembles craziness.

It's the kind of 'craziness' that's particularly evident in many religious people, who opt to support a religious viewpoint or organisation, or else are born into membership, then seem to spend the rest of their lives trying, and failing in their heart of hearts, to justify their beliefs. On the other side of the fence, there are many people calling themselves 'atheists' who, whilst asserting their non-belief, display an equivalent uncertainly in an apparent search for evidence that their non-belief is justified. Somehow, in both cases, the search for justification does not convince.

The impression I have from this is that, adamant claims notwithstanding, agnosticism rules. Beneath the veneer of certainty lies a question mark that admits a lack of vital knowledge, in place of which exists a hypothesis.



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Redewenur wrote:

"in place of which exists a hypothesis."

Just one hypothesis?

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...or various hypotheses.

(Thank you, Terry)


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"But biblical beliefs are so deeply ingrained that even people who would claim not to be Christian still try to come up with explanations for biblical stories. Crazy, isn't it."

I dont think it's crazy, its just been implanted in our culture. For many years, Christianity was the "norm," but not its losing steam to agnosticism and atheism, who try to give different reasons for biblical beleifs. Thus, if you were to say it was crazy, you would be asserting both the Christians and the non-Christians are.
Yeah, the hypotheses or theories about the past are made (some with supporting evidence, some without). It is not crazyness, it is human-ness.
But wait, aren't human-ness and craziness the same?! laugh

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Tim.

"Thus, if you were to say it was crazy, you would be asserting both the Christians and the non-Christians are"

- In this matter I didn't draw a distinction between "many religious people" (I didn't specify 'Christians') and "many people calling themselves atheists".

"Yeah, the hypotheses or theories about the past are made"

- I did not refer to hypotheses about the past, but about God.


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Tim, your comments:

'its just been implanted in our culture. For many years, Christianity was the "norm," ... the hypotheses or theories about the past are made (some with supporting evidence, some without).'

sum up my ideas on the subject very well. The comments are even more relevant for hypotheses about God as they are for hypotheses about the past. Christianity (and all other religions) is simply based on hypotheses about God.

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"Christianity (and all other religions) is simply based on hypotheses about God"

Bull's-eye.

Yet many, whose inner experience is sufficient, have no need to hypothesise about either God or history.


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Hear, hear, rede.

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