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Local scientist calls global warming theory 'hooey'
Samara Kalk Derby — 6/18/2007 8:01 am

Reid Bryson, known as the father of scientific climatology, considers global warming a bunch of hooey.

The UW-Madison professor emeritus, who stands against the scientific consensus on this issue, is referred to as a global warming skeptic. But he is not skeptical that global warming exists, he is just doubtful that humans are the cause of it.

There is no question the earth has been warming. It is coming out of the "Little Ice Age," he said in an interview this week.

"However, there is no credible evidence that it is due to mankind and carbon dioxide. We've been coming out of a Little Ice Age for 300 years. We have not been making very much carbon dioxide for 300 years. It's been warming up for a long time," Bryson said.

The Little Ice Age was driven by volcanic activity. That settled down so it is getting warmer, he said.

Humans are polluting the air and adding carbon dioxide to the atmosphere, but the effect is tiny, Bryson said.

"It's like there is an elephant charging in and you worry about the fact that there is a fly sitting on its head. It's just a total misplacement of emphasis," he said. "It really isn't science because there's no really good scientific evidence."

Just because almost all of the scientific community believes in man-made global warming proves absolutely nothing, Bryson said. "Consensus doesn't prove anything, in science or anywhere else, except in democracy, maybe."

Bryson, 87, was the founding chairman of the department of meteorology at UW-Madison and of the Institute for Environmental Studies, now known as the Gaylord Nelson Institute for Environmental Studies. He retired in 1985, but has gone into the office almost every day since. He does it without pay.

"I have now worked for zero dollars since I retired, long enough that I have paid back the people of Wisconsin every cent they paid me to give me a wonderful, wonderful career. So we are even now. And I feel good about that," said Bryson.

So, if global warming isn't such a burning issue, why are thousands of scientists so concerned about it?

"Why are so many thousands not concerned about it?" Bryson shot back.

"There is a lot of money to be made in this," he added. "If you want to be an eminent scientist you have to have a lot of grad students and a lot of grants. You can't get grants unless you say, 'Oh global warming, yes, yes, carbon dioxide.'"

Speaking out against global warming is like being a heretic, Bryson noted.

And it's not something that he does regularly.

"I can't waste my time on that, I have too many other things to do," he said.

But if somebody asks him for his opinion on global warming, he'll give it. "And I think I know about as much about it as anybody does."

Up against his students' students: Reporters will often call the meteorology building seeking the opinion of a scientist and some beginning graduate student will pick up the phone and say he or she is a meteorologist, Bryson said. "And that goes in the paper as 'scientists say.'"

The word of this young graduate student then trumps the views of someone like Bryson, who has been working in the field for more than 50 years, he said. "It is sort of a smear."

Bryson said he recently wrote something on the subject and two graduate students told him he was wrong, citing research done by one of their professors. That professor, Bryson noted, is probably the student of one of his students.

"Well, that professor happened to be wrong," he said.

"There is very little truth to what is being said and an awful lot of religion. It's almost a religion. Where you have to believe in anthropogenic (or man-made) global warming or else you are nuts."

While Bryson doesn't think that global warming is man-made, he said there is some evidence of an effect from mankind, but not an effect of carbon dioxide.

For example, in Wisconsin in the last 100 years the biggest heating has been around Madison, Milwaukee and in the Southeast, where the cities are. There was a slight change in the Green Bay area, he said. The rest of the state shows no warming at all.

"The growth of cities makes it hotter, but that was true back in the 1930s, too," Bryson said. "Big cities were hotter than the surrounding countryside because you concentrate the traffic and you concentrate the home heating. And you modify the surface, you pave a lot of it."

Bryson didn't see Al Gore's movie about global warming, "An Inconvenient Truth."

"Don't make me throw up," he said. "It is not science. It is not true."

Not so fast, say scientists: Galen McKinley, an assistant professor of atmospheric and oceanic sciences at UW-Madison disagrees with Bryson, whom she notes is a respected researcher and professor with a long history at the university.

"There are innumerable studies that show that the shoe fits for global warming, I guess you could say, and the human causation for it," McKinley said.

"We understand very well the basic process of the greenhouse effect, which is that we know that the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere increases the heat trapped by the atmosphere. You put one dollar more in the bank and you have one dollar more there tomorrow. It's a very clear feedback," she said.

Carbon dioxide emissions have been increasing over the industrial period, about 200 years, and can be observed very clearly through about 100 monitoring stations worldwide, McKinley said.

The concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is increasing consistently with the amount that humans are putting into the atmosphere, she said.

"We know humans are putting it there, we understand the basic mechanism and we know that the temperatures are warming. Many, many, many studies illustrate that both at the global scale and at the regional scale."

She cited the work of John Magnuson, a UW-Madison professor emeritus of limnology who is internationally known for his lake studies. Magnuson records the number of days of ice on the lakes in southern Wisconsin, including Mendota and Monona.

His research shows that over the course of the last 150 years, the average has gone from about four months of ice cover to more like 2.5 months, McKinley said.

Bryson would say that it is due to coming out of an Ice Age, McKinley notes, "but the rate of change that we are seeing on the planet is inconsistent with changes in the past that have been due to an Ice Age."

The huge changes in temperature that scientists are seeing are happening much faster than have ever been observed in the past due to the change from an Ice Age phase to a non-Ice Age phase, she said.

"We know that humans are putting CO2 into the atmosphere at an incredibly fast rate, much, much faster than any natural process has done it in the last at least 400,000 years and probably more like millions of years."

The rate of change is consistent with human activity, she said. That is why so many major scientific societies are concerned about global warming, she added.

The release in February of the latest report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) put the likelihood that human beings are the cause of global warming at 90 percent. It noted that temperatures will continue to climb for decades, that heat waves and floods will become more frequent and that the last time the Arctic and the Antarctic were warmer than they are today for an extended period -- before the start of the last Ice Age -- global sea levels were at least thirteen feet higher.

IPCC, founded in 1988, is the joint venture of the United Nations Environment Program and the World Meteorological Organization. Every four or five years, it conducts an exhaustive survey of the available data and issues a multivolume assessment of the state of the climate. IPCC's reports are vetted by thousands of scientists and the organization's 190-plus participating governments.

"My views are very similar to those expressed by IPCC," said Steve Vavrus, an associate scientist at the UW-Madison Center for Climatic Research.

"Reid Bryson maintains his long-standing opinions on anthropogenic climate change, and he's certainly entitled to them," Vavrus said.

"The scientific process is never 100 percent sure and it could be proven wrong," McKinley added.

"But I would say that the chances of that based on all of the best information at this current time are incredibly slim. And even though that possibility is out there, it would be irresponsible of us as a society not to act based on the best scientific information we have at the moment, which is that humans are causing the warming of the planet," she said.

"If you saw smoke in your house, it would be irresponsible not to get your family out, right?"

http://www.madison.com/tct/mad/topstories/197613


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First of all, I was struck by the diametrical 'local - global' in your thread name. It sorta reeks of the sentiment "rural local hero tells city-boy to go fly a kite"
Secondly, change is hard, especially if your 87. If you live your whole life one way then people tell you to not drive your car or to turn off the tv once in a while or that flying may kill the environment for your grandchildren, yeah sure he's gonna protest, and he's gonna respond in a way familiar to him: he's gonna diss the science. But until he puts forth one sound argument, he has to shut up. Put up or shut up. Saying the science is bad and leave it at that, is not gonna get you there, I don't care how old you are. Scientist usually are productive and creative around their forties or before. There were only 5 men who extended that: Einstein, Bohr, Planck, Newton and i think oppenheimer. Or maybe he was 40ish too?
To change your science coz you respect what a dude has done 40 years ago, that is deadly to science.
And scp, there's a lot more money to be made to support the no-warming side, from oil companies and such.
So sing another song than "boohoo they got all the grants", 'cause it's out of tune,

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Originally Posted By: BrianPatrix
Scientist usually are productive and creative around their forties or before.


Just a bit agist of you.

My friend Karl Klager was productive well into his 80s. He was a Chemist brought over from Germany after WWII. His last creation was an environmentally safe rocket fuel the government refuses to use. When he died at the age of 93 he held over 100 patents on rocket fuels. Like him, many scientists are productive well past their 40s.


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Also, it's kinda suspicious that he's going into his office for 22 years after his retirement: It's more like the university is a replacement old folks home for him. This is all well and good and what probably keeps him sane, but if he means to repay the hospitality with being maverick and going against good science ... then shove him out, I say. Let him prove that humans are not the cause of this. Everybody can put up some reasoning, of which the assumptions are totally false.

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Originally Posted By: BrianPatrix
Also, it's kinda suspicious that he's going into his office for 22 years after his retirement:


Again, my friend Karl was contracted with AeroJet until he was 91.


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Interesting, scpg02...
"Dr. Klager was himself a rocket, burning bright and energetic with ideas and innovations well into his 80s...held more than 150 patents in the United States and abroad for his inventions in rocketry...retired from Aerojet in 1973, he continued working for the rocket manufacturer as a consultant for the next 25 years...As recently as 1998 [age 89], his work on propulsion was presented to a joint military-NASA conference".
http://www.zoominfo.com/people/Klager_Karl_155471069.aspx


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When the movie Apollo 13 came out I asked him about his work with that program. He said he had the patents on the 4,5 and 6 stages. I didn't know there was any past the 3rd.

I had a guy on a forum once tell me that Karl was a liar and wasn't who he said he was. Tried to tell me that no chemist worked in both solid and liquid fuels though Karl did. Right and all those plaques on his wall were fake too.


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Right. Well, that's the forum 'conspiracy' brigade for you. Forum fungus.

I'd never heard of Dr. Klager., but there's quite a bit of info on the net.

BrianPatrix has a good point that in most cases, the most productive years for scientists are in line with the most productive years for most non-scientists (isn't it true that the Nobel prizes and similar honours are almost always awarded for work done by the under 50's?). I don't agree, though, that there are no exceptions, and your example is a good one


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I linked stuff but the guy refused to read it. He knew everything since he worked in rockets himself. You know the type. I enjoyed talking politics with Karl.

Surprised you were able to find stuff about him. The only thing on the web I could ever find was a NASA site about rocket fuels. You didn't happen to see a picture did you?


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My mistake. It turns out that the Google links I'm checking are to sites that reference his work, not to the actual work. I'll keep trying. No photo yet.


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Here is the NASA paper I linked to with the other guy. Mentions Karl on page 5 and 7.

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/pdf/88635main_H-2330.pdf


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Yes, I had found the same one - which, unfortunately, suggests there probably aren't any others.

Seems that you must have known him quite well. I can imagine that chatting with someone with his abilities and long experience was pretty engrossing.


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He liked to keep a low profile. He had one son who was a dentist in the Army. After Karl passed, his wife Elizabeth moved to Tacoma where he was living. He was Austrian, she was Hungarian. Their house has beautiful oak parquet tiles. Sadly it was torn down after it was sold.

He used to tell a story about his immigration to the US. He was brought over here by the government in Operation Paper Clip. When he was hired by...can't remember the name of the company now...rocket industry down in Southern California. Anyway, he was here illegally basically and he had to go down to the Mexican border, crossover and then re-enter legally so he could work. You would think since the government brought him here they could have fixed that with some paperwork. Go figure.

He was very much against our current immigration policy. He felt that today’s immigrants didn't try to assimilate.


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Originally Posted By: redewenur
Yes, I had found the same one - which, unfortunately, suggests there probably aren't any others.

Seems that you must have known him quite well. I can imagine that chatting with someone with his abilities and long experience was pretty engrossing.


I had a cleaning business and was their housekeeper for many years. My father-in-law, also a Vice President out at Aerojet, was surprised when he found out I knew Karl. Yes, I enjoyed talking to him. He used to listen to Rush and we would talk about current political events etc.


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I'm sure he was right to be opposed to the immigration policy. It may be true that immigrants don't try hard enough to assimilate, but there may be physiological and psycho-social reasons for it that are beyond their control, such as the 'crystallisation' that makes us less malleable with age. Even with the best of intentions assimilation can be difficult.


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scpg, your evidence is anecdotal. You knew ONE man that was productive at a late age, this doesn't prove that more can, especially not some one from a small college who remained there all his life. This suggest there was not anything remarkable about his scientific performance. There's a reason there are only a few people who can run the 100 metres under 10 seconds, the same reason that Klager exists: they are exceptional. Again, put your money where his mouth is: provide numbers that the production of CO2 by man is far less than whatever produced by natural means. If ya can't measure it, it's not science. What you are doing is fallacious reasoning: you claim to have been close to the guy 'cause you used to clean his house and that's supposed to give your arguments more weight? Get real. Welcome to the world of peer-reviewed message boards.
On any other subject, I wouldn't have cared but I'll be damned to do it on this one. Just because you're to unwilling to change or because you wanna drive your SUV around, I'm not gonna let my grandchildren suffer.

On immigration: In a colour sensitive society like the USA it's of course far easier to integrate as a white AUSTRIAN AND HUNGARIAN than it is as a Mexican.

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Originally Posted By: BrianPatrix
Welcome to the world of peer-reviewed message boards.
On any other subject, I wouldn't have cared but I'll be damned to do it on this one. Just because you're to unwilling to change or because you wanna drive your SUV around, I'm not gonna let my grandchildren suffer.


LOL! After chastising me about "fallacious reasoning" you make a statement like that? Aren't you making assumptions based on NO evidence? You don't know me from Adam but you are quick to make the argument personal rather than refute what I have said with published facts. That's what is required on a political board. Sorry your peer reviewed board doesn't use the same standards.

You made a claim you couldn't back up and somehow that makes me wrong. Go figure.


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Oops. Yet another climate change thread hits the emotional barrier...we've been there, done that, umpteen times...time to recede into the blue yonder...


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Originally Posted By: redewenur
Oops. Yet another climate change thread hits the emotional barrier...we've been there, done that, umpteen times...time to recede into the blue yonder...


Well it wasn't as bad as the last time I was here.


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Originally Posted By: scpg02
You don't know me from Adam but you are quick to make the argument personal

Is it a sign of global overheating?


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