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#19692 - 03/28/07 06:11 PM Re: KNOCK Revs and Religion. Give it your best sho [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
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Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
ABOUT FIVE DAYS FOR FAITH
The detailed-filled programs which I watched made it very clear that some very qualified scientists are also relgious and believe in God in one way or another. Even those who have with little or no religion--that is a belief in God, or the supernatural--spoke with respect of those who do. The point was made that many of the early American scientists, such as Benjamin Franklin, preferred deism to theism. Deism is still the option for many.

ABOUT DEISM
http://www.deism.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism
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G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#19751 - 03/29/07 07:23 PM Re: KNOCK Revs and Religion. Give it your best sho [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
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This should be read in conjunction with my recent post in EVIDENCE FOR GOD:
=================
IS THIS PART OF THE FORUM ABOUT THE HARD SCIENCES?
Unless I miss my guess, this part of the over-all Scienceagogo is not about any of the hard sciences, chemistry, physics, mathematics and the like. Isn't it called NOT QUITE SCIENCE FORUM? And didn't Kate squelch earlier attempts, even before I appeared, to have this thread killed?

And while you are at it, tell us how come so many ARE interested in reading the few posts to which Wayne, I and others write.

The latest count in: The Evidence-for-God thread alone, started by Tim, has 5,746 clicks. Amazing! Lurkers, do you want this thread dumped by two obscurants.

Add this to the three started by me and a friend of mine
and the total jumps to nearly 10,000 clicks. Not bad!

Seeing that this Site depends on getting advertisments, it seems to me that clicks on threads count for something.

Now let those who have it give us the evidence that readers are not interested in reading what is contained in the the few threads which I frequent.

Kate, as I have always said: Feel free to correct and/or instruct me. I am always open to positive criticisms.


Edited by Revlgking (03/29/07 10:08 PM)
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G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#21678 - 05/18/07 10:57 PM Re: KNOCK Revs and Religion. Give it your best sho [Re: Revlgking]
bgmark Offline
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Registered: 05/04/07
Posts: 17
sad is likely to be a myth just like attention defecit disorder, to make psychologists and docyters more money. How on earth did eskomos ever survive all thses years without the temptation to kill themselves.

Concerning most reverands, most teach a false salvation method, based on early church teachers that are not in the Bible, who later taught torture and then burning people at the stake was all part of the gospel. For light disenters they had there tongues burnt through with a hot iron. This is the doctrine that most Bible schools teach, but minus the torture and burning at the satke as that is un pc these days

Yes sure many teleavengalists and most churches believe in tihting which is not mentioned in the new testament, and does put some people off. However some do preach salvation and would no doubt save many people.
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#21683 - 05/19/07 03:32 AM Re: KNOCK Revs and Religion. Give it your best sho [Re: bgmark]
Revlgking Offline
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bgmark, thanks for dropping in, and for your honest criticisms. I have little or no respect for most TV evangelists. Perhaps there are a few, very few, worthy of respect.

About tithing: I believe that tithers are people who look after themselves, their families and others who need employment, and pay their bills. We need to give people a hand up, not a hand out.

Let us ask others: What is the best way to serve the common good. Is it not about keeping the Golden Rule of service to others?
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#21684 - 05/19/07 04:43 AM Re: KNOCK Revs and Religion. Give it your best sho [Re: Revlgking]
Amaranth Rose II Offline

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Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 962
Loc: Southeast Nebraska, USA
What is the best way to serve the common good? Is it not to be kind in word, thought and deed? If one can keep that thought foremost, all else will necessarily fall into place behind it. I preach tolerance of others and recognition of differences and celebration of the same. For if we were all made in the same mold life would be boring indeed. Respect for all is the basis of the Golden Rule, "Do you unto others as you would have them do unto you". If you want respect, you must first respect yourself and others.
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If you don't care for reality, just wait a while; another will be along shortly. --A Rose


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#21831 - 05/28/07 07:05 PM Re: KNOCK Revs and Religion. Give it your best sho [Re: Amaranth Rose II]
Revlgking Offline
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Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
AR, right on!!!!
May I suggest that, as we communicate with each other physically, mentally and spiritually, we can serve the common good by keeping three things in mind: empathy, empathy, empathy.

About empathy: entering fully, through imagination, into another's feelings or motives. For example, into the meaning of a work of art, etc. It comes from the Greek empatheia--in + pathos, feeling.

IMHO, empathy falls under the category of pneumatology, the mother of psychology. We need the integration of somatology, psychology and pneumatology.

About pneumatology. Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneuma


GØD (IAM-THE) is the one in all that is;
The one with cosmos, earth, sky, sea;
GØD's one with time, the eternal now,
And all pervasive gravity.
One with faith and hope and love;
One with knowledge, wisdom, power;
Around, with, beneath above,
And present at this very hour.

Atheists, agnostics, if you do not feel comfortable with the word GØD, I have no objection to anyone saying IAM-THE.


Edited by Revlgking (05/28/07 07:06 PM)

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#21935 - 06/06/07 10:53 AM Re: KNOCK Revs and Religion. Give it your best sho [Re: Revlgking]
redewenur Offline
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Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 1840
(This has no connection with the above)

May 31, 2007

"The highest court in Malaysia yesterday rejected a Muslim-born woman's appeal to be recognised as a Christian...The Malaysian constitution guarantees freedom of worship, but ethnic Malays must be Muslim by law. "She cannot simply, at her own whim, enter or leave her religion," Judge Ahmad Fairuz said during yesterday's ruling...Two-hundred Muslim protesters who gathered in a prayer vigil outside the court yesterday greeted the verdict with cries of "Allahu Akbar" (God is great)."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,2091812,00.html

No comment.
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#21938 - 06/06/07 06:40 PM Re: KNOCK Revs and Religion. Give it your best sho [Re: redewenur]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
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Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Freedom of, and freedom from religion--an idea which I support, very much--is a relatively modern idea.

It probably grew out of Judaeo-Chriristianiity, but there was a time when all Christian nations were theocracies, not unlike many Muslim countries, today.

Theocrats look to God as the king of all. He appoints kings; kings appoints church and state leaders, and they rule the rest of us. Our duty it is to obey, pray and pay. smile
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_religion

In the west, it was probably the Protestant Reformation which started--note, I said, started--the move away from theocracy. Islam never experience a reformation. This may account for the fact that they find it difficult to think in terms of freedom of and from religion. This reformation may be happening, now. I hope it is.

As a strong believer in the concept that the highest good is love, I am of the opinion that religious leaders should never twist peoples arms and say: "Love God, or I will break your arm!"
Love cannot be commanded; it can only be earned.

BTW, it should be obvious that not all religions are born equal. It should also be obvious that if God were a theocratic and personal being he would leave no doubt about it.




Edited by Revlgking (06/06/07 07:36 PM)
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G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#21946 - 06/07/07 01:54 AM Re: KNOCK Revs and Religion. Give it your best sho [Re: Revlgking]
Ellis Offline
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Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia

"The highest court in Malaysia yesterday rejected a Muslim-born woman's appeal to be recognised as a Christian...The Malaysian constitution guarantees freedom of worship, but ethnic Malays must be Muslim by law. "She cannot simply, at her own whim, enter or leave her religion," Judge Ahmad Fairuz said during yesterday's ruling...Two-hundred Muslim protesters who gathered in a prayer vigil outside the court yesterday greeted the verdict with cries of "Allahu Akbar" (God is great)."

I do not know if there is actual Sharia Law in Malaysia but certainly the Muslim faith is the foundation for government. In countries where there is Sharia Law the judiciary is at one with the religious leaders. In Malaysia if you are not Muslim/Malay you are denied many privileges and your rights are not automatically protected. This can happen to non-Muslim foreign-born inhabitants of Malaysia and their Malaysian-born descendents. They do not have the same citizenship rights or health/education etc. rights even if born there. Maybe this judge was actually doing the woman a favour.

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#21950 - 06/07/07 02:35 AM Re: KNOCK Revs and Religion. Give it your best sho [Re: Ellis]
redewenur Offline
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Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 1840
Yes, Ellis, Malaysia does have Sharia Law. She took her case to the civil court, and you're right, the judge was doing her a favour. Had it been the Sharia court, she would almost certainly have been punished for her 'crime' against Islam.

I have some idea about Malaysian law. I spent time there in the 1970's. "Bhumi putra" (son's of the soil), the native ethnic group that is 60% of the population, have privileges in all aspects of life - in education, business, housing and more. Take housing, for example. At the time when I visited the country, if a Muslim Malay wished to buy a new house, he would be required to make an initial down payment of 10%. For a non-Muslim, such as a Chinese-Malaysian, the figure was 25%. Furthermore, the law stated that 75% of all new housing estates must be reserved for bhumi-putra. in the same way, university places are reserved, irrespective of academic merit. There's one taxation system for ethnic Malays, and another for the rest.

This is the religious subjugation of politics, and religious suppression and discrimination against 40% of a nation's people - by divine right.

Doesn't religion do wonderful things for the world?

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"Time is what prevents everything from happening at once" - John Wheeler

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#21953 - 06/07/07 03:03 AM Re: KNOCK Revs and Religion. Give it your best sho [Re: redewenur]
terrytnewzealand Offline
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Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 1031
Loc: Whangarei New Zealand
Revlgking wrote:

"there was a time when all Christian nations were theocracies, not unlike many Muslim countries, today."

And not really that long ago. The US is beginning to give the appearance of returning there. Perhaps that's why the admin is so anti Islam. The bitterest fights are always between family members.


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#21961 - 06/07/07 01:54 PM Re: KNOCK Revs and Religion. Give it your best sho [Re: redewenur]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Originally Posted By: redewenur
...Doesn't religion do wonderful things for the world?
Rede, I presume you are being sarcastic. Are you implying that all religion is sick? If so, what qualifies as religion? Do you include atheistic communism (The State Is God) as a religion? How much good did sick atheism plus communism do for the majority of Russians and the Chinese?

In my opinion, sarcastic generalizations are always wrong and unfair statements. For example: The white race is arrogant; the black race is lazy: atheism is the only way to truth. Is there anything fair and true about such statements? I don't think so.



Edited by Revlgking (06/07/07 01:59 PM)
_________________________
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#21962 - 06/07/07 05:55 PM Re: KNOCK Revs and Religion. Give it your best sho [Re: Revlgking]
redewenur Offline
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Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 1840
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Originally Posted By: redewenur
...Doesn't religion do wonderful things for the world?
Rede, I presume you are being sarcastic.

Yes, you are quite right, I used sarcasm as a device to highlight the contrast between the words and deeds of some of the worlds foulest hypocrites, and the attrocities perpetrated in the name of God. These people are fully deserving of rebuke, be it by way of sarcasm or otherwise - but in case you missed the point, let me rephrase it in a non-sarcastic form: -

Religion does terrible things to the world.

The 'generalizations' to which you refer are false stereotypes. "Religion does terrible things to the world" is neither generalization nor stereotyping - it's fact. Furthermore, in it's original (sarcastic form) it bears particular relevance to the post in which it appeared.

I have to say, I find your moralizing tone distasteful. I have thus far succeeded in steering a course around your posts, and trust that we'll have the foresight and wisdom to curtail our exchanges forthwith.
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"Time is what prevents everything from happening at once" - John Wheeler

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#21967 - 06/07/07 10:15 PM Re: KNOCK Revs and Religion. Give it your best sho [Re: redewenur]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
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Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Goodbye, Rede. In Old English, it was a short form for: "Good, or God, be with ye!" laugh

I wonder: How does positive atheism, which I respect, give one a blessing?

BTW, I abhor moralizing. I will gladly agree that the moderator remove any moralizing posts I have written.


Edited by Revlgking (06/07/07 10:18 PM)
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#21985 - 06/09/07 05:49 AM Re: KNOCK Revs and Religion. Give it your best sho [Re: Revlgking]
Ellis Offline
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Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
Atheists do not presume to bless people. And further they do not need to.

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#21992 - 06/09/07 04:12 PM Re: KNOCK Revs and Religion. Give it your best sho [Re: Ellis]
Revlgking Offline
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Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
And I presume they never say 'goodbye', or 'adieu' (French, to God), or 'adeos' (Spanish, to God) etc.,... laugh BTW, what do they say?
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#22002 - 06/10/07 12:23 AM Re: KNOCK Revs and Religion. Give it your best sho [Re: Revlgking]
Amaranth Rose II Offline

Superstar

Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 962
Loc: Southeast Nebraska, USA
Farewell.
_________________________
If you don't care for reality, just wait a while; another will be along shortly. --A Rose


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#22009 - 06/10/07 01:52 PM Re: KNOCK Revs and Religion. Give it your best sho [Re: Amaranth Rose II]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Thanks for the blessing. smile

BTW, the Jews and other semitic people say "peace be with you" whether you're coming or going. The Hebrew is 'shalom'; the Arabic is 'salam'. Both words imply the peace of Eloh (the highest power), or Allah (the highest power). The Israeli airline uses the logo ElAl (Eloh, Allah).

As I have said before, the Greek translation is 'Theos', the highest idea--that is, the basic theory behind the power. The Anglo tranlatation, of course, is God--the highest good.

If I were an atheist I would have no problem believing in the one powerful and good idea in, through, around and behind all things, the material cosmos.

As a unitheist, or panentheist, I am not required to believe in an objective and/or personal god. However, I feel no need to vituperate against those of child-like faith who do. The important thing is: Does our theology, or lack of it, actually inspire us to bid each other, "farewell" and help us to act on that which we say. This is why John says, "God is Love". That is, the doing of good, not just talking about it.



Edited by Revlgking (06/10/07 01:53 PM)
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#22024 - 06/11/07 06:26 AM Re: KNOCK Revs and Religion. Give it your best sho [Re: Revlgking]
Ellis Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
I say Goodbye of course. To me the word is just that -a word to say before parting, as yum-yum is a word to say before eating or good night before sleeping. Formalities, nice mannerly phrases which once meant the same thing to everyone , but now, thanks to semantic shift mean other things as well. There are many examples of this---most swear words, the words gay, nice, bloody, sophisticated---there are lots and lots of examples. A word, as Humpty Dumpty said means what you wish it to mean, and I do not ever intend to "bless" anyone or invoke the divine when I wish, for example, to say good bye, or call them a bloody nuisance.

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#22030 - 06/11/07 09:17 AM Re: KNOCK Revs and Religion. Give it your best sho [Re: Ellis]
terrytnewzealand Offline
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Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 1031
Loc: Whangarei New Zealand
Yes indeed. There is the story, said to be true, of a child asking his parent why the founder of a major western religion was named after a swearword.

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