Science a GoGo's Home Page Forums General Discussion Not-Quite-Science Forum Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including,

Interesting. Does this really mean what it says? Is it certain that the Bush administration is made up, totally, of "good" Christians? What evidence do we have of this? Sounds like the same kind of prejudice we used to hear out of Berlin before 1945, and aimed at Jews.

There is such a thing as fair comment: SOME Christians, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists...and even Atheists, are hypocrites.

James Watt. His statement isn't really as bad as what I'd been led to believe. From that great source, wikipedia:

when asked whether he believed that natural resources should be preserved for future generations, he replied, "I do not know how many future generations we can count on before the Lord returns, whatever it is we have to manage with a skill to leave the resources needed for future generations."

More at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_G._Watt

James Watt. One of the dimmest, self-serving, bulbs in this country.

Then check out these links:
http://www.ncccusa.org/news/04bushonair.html
http://www.bushgreenwatch.org/

Take a good look at the relative percentage of harm being caused by various countries. I live in the worst, self-centered, country of them all.

And despite having recently awakened to the fact that Bush is leading us down the path of destruction. They still don't get it.

Dan. From your first link:

"The private use of creation’s bounty must serve the needs of all God’s children. Yet we are concerned that powerful corporate interests have had disproportionate influence in shaping and reaping benefits from a clean air program which should serve the common good."

Hey. We'd better stop knocking those people! The second link is a bit more alarming.

In addition to the above, check out Deuteronomy 20--ABOUT WAR. It tells about 1300 BCE, when God ordered his chosen people to take over the land He promised them. Take especial note of verses 16-20. Here the Lord God advocates, "...kill everyone." The prophet Isaiah (the 8th. Century, BCE) tells us how the struggle continued then. In Isaiah 13, it is recorded that God advocated an all-out Holy War against Babylon, Persia (Irag/Iran, today). He promised a total destruction of the place and that it would be turned into a desert. Chapter 14 promises more destruction and that the Gentiles, "...will serve Israel as slaves."

Interestingly, if they had actually been able to do what they were told to do, with God's help, there would be no Palestinians and others to fight today. In addition, what we today call Syria, Jordan, Iran, Iraq, and most of Arabia was included as "the Promised land".

As a minister, I read many of these stories from the Bible to my congregation. I gave my opinion of them: They tell us of the vicious cruelty of the times. I alway added: "This is not the word of God, as I understand the concept".

So we're all agreed then. Any belief in the God of the Old Testament should be punished by stoning.

People who believe, literally, in the God of the OT and/or the God of traditional theism are probably already stoned.

Now you will proably understand why I insist that we forget about God and start thinking about GØD.

Good point Rev. Mind you many who don't believe are probably also stoned.

In the thread on, Is Science the answer? Blacknad writes It is my humble opinion that, if it truly is our goal to unite humanity, we need to look at philosophy (the major religions), all the sciences, including pneumatology--the study of the spirit, and the arts, including engineering and technology.

BTW, the story is told that an engineer once claimed: "Engineering is the original profession; because, long before the surgeon helped God make Eve, it was an engineer who helped God bring order out of chaos."

On hearing this, God spoke up and said: "The truth is, the politicans were here before the engineers. They were the ones who created chaos..."

Yes but before the rapture there is also predicted in the Bible a nuclear war, and america is the 'land of unwalled villages' that will be invaded. This rapture occurs after the war, and with all american cities having no exits they will be easy targets. This will instantly vapourise people in the immediate vacinity of the blast, but further out they will suffer third, second and first degree burns.

A beautiful picture you paint Bgmark. Is that why Gorse W Bush was so keen to start another war in the Middle East? And I thought it was oil. Silly me.

Can you give references for this?

Blacknad.

Here in the land of Oz we do not often meet up with the Rapture and it is not usually given as a reason for the Iraq War. Could someone explain to me-what it is, and--why it is relevant here even in the Relgious Philosophy topic (itself an interesting choice for a science forum, but we have already argued that), ---and do ordinary people anywhere really think that this idea gives them the right to trash the planet?

I too will be interested in the references.

The late Jerry Falwell's Liberty University has the vague viewpoint that Global Warming is a giant hoax designed to foster [evil] globalization. "...or something crazy like that," I said incredulously.

There is a whole 'nother branch of Evangelicals which believe 'stewardship' is a good thing (and GW is real and worrying).

At least I think I've heard that on the news.


~Samwik

Need to be wary of generalizations. The views you refer to above (need to be good stewards etc.) are held by the majority of Christians as far as I am aware. Of course, the fundy nutters are always the most vocal so their views are most likely to be seen as representative of Christianity in general.

My church for instance has as far as I can remember been very hot on environmental and world resource issues. I have moved from driving a 2.0 liter estate to a small 1.6 hatchback and do as much as I can to lower my carbon footprint. It is the same for many others in my church.

Boy do we get a bad press - there's so much criticism of us that I'm almost believing it and feeling that perhaps I really am evil and the cause of most of the world's woes. Maybe they're right - maybe I do need to be wiped out so that humanity can progress.

Regards,

Blacky.

iraq has little to do with it...but russia is the northern gog in the Bible, not iraq or iran

Ezekiel 38
10 Thus saith the Lord GOD; It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy mind, and thou shalt think an evil thought:
11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,
12 To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.
13 Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil?
14 ¶ Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it?
15 And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army:

Iran would be at least 10 years away from building thermo nuclear warheads, and at least 15 years away from making rockects that can hit the US, who could destroy iran with one sub. How could this cause a final battle as written in revelations 6, where people hide in caves. here is an alternative movie to algores http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4boaEbtjByU

bgmark, if you'll excuse what may turn out to be a stupid question, what philosophical point are you making?

(I would have checked out the link, but we don't have access youtube.com in these parts)

RedE, I will second your question. Bgmark, don't be shy: Tell us. we can always agree to disagree, agreably.

Hiya bgmark,

Still waiting for you to substantiate what you have said.

This is what is said about the land of unwalled villages:

"I will invade a land of unwalled villages, I will attack a peaceful and unsuspecting people – all of them living without gates and bars."

'Peaceful', 'unsuspecting'? Do you really think that could be describing America?

1. How do you know that your references are talking about some time soon?

2 How do you know it is talking about a nuclear war?

3 How do you know that America is involved?

Have you really thought this through or are you just going on what someone has told you?

Blacknad.