Welcome to
Science a GoGo's
Discussion Forums
Please keep your postings on-topic or they will be moved to a galaxy far, far away.
Your use of this forum indicates your agreement to our terms of use.
So that we remain spam-free, please note that all posts by new users are moderated.


The Forums
General Science Talk        Not-Quite-Science        Climate Change Discussion        Physics Forum        Science Fiction

Who's Online
0 registered (), 203 Guests and 1 Spider online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Posts
Is there anybody out there?
by paul
12/07/19 03:58 AM
Top Posters (30 Days)
True 1
paul 1
Page 32 of 35 < 1 2 ... 30 31 32 33 34 35 >
Topic Options
#21037 - 04/28/07 09:21 AM Re: Evidence for God [Re: Revlgking]
terrytnewzealand Offline
Megastar

Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 1031
Loc: Whangarei New Zealand
Revlgking wrote:

"I strongly suspect it would be the ones I choose to feed."

Lot of truth in that Rev.

Top
.
#21042 - 04/28/07 03:51 PM Re: Evidence for God [Re: terrytnewzealand]
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
Originally Posted By: terrytnewzealand
That suggests that all Christians in the UK oppose evolutionary theory! The 45% must be made up of Muslims, Jews etc.


Terry,

I don't know what form of logic you used to get at that statement. You happen to be talking to a Christian who accepts evolutionary theory - if you think that by some freaky chance you are talking to the only Christian in the UK that accepts evolution then run out and buy a lotto ticket because you are obviously on a roll. I know probably about a thousand Christians and easily the majority accept evolution.

Blacknad.

Top
#21060 - 04/29/07 08:31 AM Re: Evidence for God [Re: Blacknad]
terrytnewzealand Offline
Megastar

Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 1031
Loc: Whangarei New Zealand
Sorry Blacknad. I did assume it would be mostly religious people who doubted evolution. It seems there must be many atheist in the UK that don't accept it.

Top
#21071 - 04/29/07 02:26 PM Re: Evidence for God [Re: terrytnewzealand]
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
Cheers Terry,

IGNORE THIS IF YOU WANT - IT IS NOT ON SUBJECT AND IS MY PERSONAL RANT ABOUT STUFF.

I look over my words in my last post now and they sound a little harsh. It wasn't my intent - it just doesn't always come across as it is in your head in internet land. I'm sure you realize that I view you with a lot of respect - and although I feel a bit poncy for saying it, I think its important to let people know what you think of them.

I always think to myself that if I go to my grave (and I've hopefully got a good few decades yet, in my late 30s) and I never told people the good things and the positive effect they have had on me, then what was it all for? As you can probably tell, I'm a bit of a strange one with a real morbid streak - but harmless enough.

But I can tell from all your posts I have read that you are a good guy and as with others here I think 'I could get on with them in real life I'm sure'. There are others that I think, 'no, I probably wouldn't connect with that person'.

Just indulging myself now in a bit of meandering. Its a strange thing - but we find friendship where we can - even in the middle of a board on science. I enjoy the interactions I have and enjoy it when I connect with people here. I've been thinking about it for a while now - it is an entirely new form of social interaction. It is one where you really don't know the other people and conduct relationships without any of the normal queues such as knowing what they look like, seeing their physical expressions, knowing anything really about their lives - and I suppose not even knowing they are who they say they are. In reality I might be a very well written computer program (we will get to that real possibility in a few years).

And yet I get enjoyment from my interactions here. It may just be me and everyone else may be more sane and just see it as an interesting way to learn and debate and nothing more - while I am sitting here insanely believing that in some sense and for maybe just a time, I actually have made some friends here or acquaintances.

I suppose that we have always had some relationships that have been conducted over the telephone and as pen friends, but it was a very occasional thing. Now many people have contact with others through this almost anonymous electronic medium. It does mean I suppose that you can immediately meet up with others that share your interests, be it science, feminism, terrorism or a particular fetish. I can count on three fingers the amount of my friends who are really interested in the same types of issues as me and even here we have different flavors of interest, but the common theme is that we all have interest in using our grey matter to think deeply about things. And that, most of all, is what I enjoy.

I was going to become a monk and just get away from it all - I was going to commit to two years and see how it went. I think maybe I would have found it hard because I need to discuss things. Maybe I could do it now, but regularly access SAGG on my mobile after daily devotions smile

But I suppose I am thinking, what will it do to human development that we have this much greater interconnectivity with people almost anywhere in the world? What happens to different cultures when a Bedouin Tribesman can now chat to a teenage New Yorker? What about an Iraqi who finds that his American blogfriend has pretty much the same needs, fears and desires as he does? Will the net eventually connect people on a much deeper level that purely debating in science boards?

Should have posted this in Is Science the Answer?

Blacknad.

Top
#21073 - 04/29/07 08:11 PM Re: Evidence for God [Re: Blacknad]
samwik Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/10/06
Posts: 1164
Loc: Colorado
Very nicely put, Blacky, if I may be so presumptious.

Just this morning, having about a half hour trouble with my modem, the "comunity" that I was eagerly (as I came to realize) trying to connect with, was more tangible than I take for granted. It was palpable, a bit of adrenaline rushing, as with face to face socializing.

I sure appreciate your thoughts here, and don't think they're on the wrong post (kinda just one big conversation, eh?).
After reading your post, and having what I related above percolate through, I thought, "Well, there is evidence for God right there!"

Thank you God, for screwing with my modem this morning.

~~Later - wink
_________________________
Pyrolysis creates reduced carbon! ...Time for the next step in our evolutionary symbiosis with fire.

Top
#21087 - 04/30/07 08:22 AM Re: Evidence for God [Re: samwik]
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
Cheers Samwik - much appreciated.

Blacknad.

Top
#21097 - 04/30/07 09:41 AM Re: Evidence for God [Re: Blacknad]
terrytnewzealand Offline
Megastar

Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 1031
Loc: Whangarei New Zealand
Samwik wrote:

"Very nicely put, Blacky".

Totally agree.

Blacknad wrote:

"it just doesn't always come across as it is in your head in internet land."

The written word always lacks the subtle intonations of speech and certainly the gestures that accompany direct contact. No offence ever taken Blacky.

Another comment from you:

"I'm a bit of a strange one with a real morbid streak".

I must confess I have noticed your morbid streak at times. I was going to comment once but refrained. Perhaps I will draw your attention to it next time. I would rather like to have a beer or two with you one day Blacky. Who knows? The Arabic phrase "Insha'Allah" is perhaps appropriate on a thread called "Evidence for God". Except they frown on alcohol.

Top
#21270 - 05/05/07 03:40 AM Re: Evidence for God [Re: terrytnewzealand]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
I wonder how come the Koran says nothing about the danger of tobacco, caffeine, transfats and the like? Neither does the Bible.

BTW, did you hear about ATHEISM INC.? It is registered as a not-for-prophets corporation. smile
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

Top
#21271 - 05/05/07 06:30 AM Re: Evidence for God [Re: Revlgking]
samwik Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/10/06
Posts: 1164
Loc: Colorado
Hiya Rev.

I figured it was because I pulled an all-nighter (final exams!) that I kept giggling all day about "May the 4th be with you!"

But I really enjoy your 'BTW...not-for-prophets' on a whole 'nother level. Very funny, creative... and true!

But wait! Is it true? Why do you have to be religious to see the future? Hmmm, guess it's in the definition. If they're not religious, then they're called clairvoyient (wow, there's a word i don't know how to spell).

no sleep, can you tell?
~samwik - wink

p.s. Just saw Christopher Hitchens on Charlie Rose. He mentioned how coincidental it was that Religions offer just the kind of things that we crave the most (security, freedom, assuagement or soothing, etc.). Your point about "..says nothing about the danger of tobacco.." made me think about how religions only deal with what they know about.

Whereas science.... opposite...unknown.
:))

Chris acknowledged that sure, may be a god out there; but doesn't care about us or intervene.

Is that what people mean when they talk about a "personal God?"
I hear that phrase around, as in '~90% of AAAS don't believe in a personal god.' -cited from audience query, Religion & Culture Panel, CSPAN2....guess i been editing too much....

~SPunchy

...but seriously....
Is that what people mean when they talk about a "personal God?"
_________________________
Pyrolysis creates reduced carbon! ...Time for the next step in our evolutionary symbiosis with fire.

Top
#21278 - 05/05/07 05:34 PM Re: Evidence for God [Re: samwik]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Sam, You comment: "Chris Hitchins acknowledged that, ...'sure, there may be a god out there; but he doesn't care about us or intervene.'" This is the theology of deism. Check out

http://207.234.216.228/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism

You ask: What do people mean when they talk about a "personal God?" This kind of question can only be answered by those who say they do. Mormons think of 'God' as a person. I think so do the Jehovah Witnesses.
http://www.watchtower.org/library/jt/index.htm

In my opinion, there is no separate being called God. For me, this is a form of mental idol making. Christians need to be reminded St. Augustine (354-430 CE, formerly AD) wrote of God as being "like a circle whose circumerfvence is everyswhere and whose centre is nowhere."--A kind of no thing in which things exist.

For me, this means that GØD is like the knowledge, wisdom and power originating in the human spirit, the pneuma. For me, it is the power to believe that, despite the reality of evil, it is possible to accept that there is goodness and truth--in the form of love. Similar to the way that light turns darkness into day, and the heat sun can turn the cold of winter into Spring and Summer, so love can turn despair into hope and fear into joy. I John 3:8 sums this up with the words: God is love.

BTW, keep in mind that too much light and too much heat can do much harm.

Atheists: Do you allow for any kind of spirituality? What is your concept of mind? Spirit, Soul? Ghost?

What do you believe about life following the death of the brain?
[And there are more questions.]

_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

Top
#21280 - 05/05/07 06:55 PM Re: Evidence for God [Re: samwik]
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
Originally Posted By: samwik
Is that what people mean when they talk about a "personal God?"


A 'Personal God' is simply about the difference in Theism and Deism.

Deists believe that an intelligence created the universe, but has no particular interest in it. I have heard it said that it is like a god that winds up the universe like a clock and then leaves it to wind down on its own.

Theists believe in a creative intelligence that is interested in the universe, all the way down to every individual the universe produces - e.g. the verse 'I knit you together in the womb'.

Blacknad.

Top
#21283 - 05/05/07 09:02 PM Re: Evidence for God [Re: Blacknad]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
For me, and I do not choose to be dogmatic about this: GØD is personal in persons.

That is, GØD is in persons, persons who make the personal choice that this be so. I choose to relate to GØD, without being imposed upon by the hope of reward or fear of punishment. I call this theology, unitheism. Some call it panENtheism.

Unitheism, or panENtheism--thankful to the insights of both theism and deism--is a balance between both of them.

I see us as taking the opportunity to create ourselves and start living within a heaven, or a hell, in the eternal and infinite NOW.


Edited by Revlgking (05/05/07 10:16 PM)

Top
#21284 - 05/05/07 09:10 PM Re: Evidence for God [Re: Blacknad]
samwik Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/10/06
Posts: 1164
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Blacknad
A 'Personal God' is simply about the difference in Theism and Deism.



Thanks Blacky,

And I suppose the 'personal God' is the Theistic side of the picture. They should more accurately say a "personalble God," I think.

So, an impersonal God would be Deistic; the clock winding down?

I always thought a 'personal God' meant the understanding of God that one achieves on a personal level. Y'know, my own idea of God, vs. someone else's idea of what God is.

Much as Revl.'s idea, "For me, this means that GØD is like...the pneuma." -whoops, sorry for using Notepad, Revl.
Or like my own ideas of extradimensionality (or any other transcending ideas), or St. Augustine's ideas.

That's why i was puzzled by the "'~90% of AAAS don't believe in a personal god.' -cited from audience query," statement that I heard.

So many of those 90% could be diests, I suppose.

I could argue either way on Theist/Deist, but Theism seems more human centered; hence more accessible and fun to talk about.

Revl., thanks for the circle/center quote!

It sounds just like a "description of the universe" that an astronomer once gave me when I asked 'In what direction was the Big Bang?'

Lightning! better log off.

Thanks,

~SA
_________________________
Pyrolysis creates reduced carbon! ...Time for the next step in our evolutionary symbiosis with fire.

Top
#21286 - 05/05/07 10:01 PM Re: Evidence for God [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Theologically speaking, theism and deism--and I respect both their points of view--are not the only options, IMHO. Note the re-edit I did with my last posts. Thanks!


Edited by Revlgking (05/05/07 10:18 PM)

Top
#21292 - 05/05/07 11:12 PM Re: Evidence for God [Re: Revlgking]
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
I choose to relate to GØD, without being imposed upon by the hope of reward or fear of punishment.


Rev,

Then you needs to move squarely away from Christianity because on even the most liberal reading of it you cannot get away from reward and punishment.

And I don't really think it is about what you choose - it is about what is or is not.

Blacknad.

Top
#21299 - 05/06/07 05:01 AM Re: Evidence for God [Re: Blacknad]
Ellis Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
So what happened to the Trinity which gives us God the Father (the creator of all things- omnipotent and all-encompassing), God the Son, (god made flesh, the part that enables us to be made in His image) and God the Holy Spirit (that part of God which is divine and supernatural)? It seems a nice tidy way to sum it all up, or do we no longer believe it this manifestation? If not how does the Son of God concept fit with the Deist theory, or even the Theist? Or are these last two theories not in fact concerned with Christianity?

Top
#21302 - 05/06/07 07:05 AM Re: Evidence for God [Re: Ellis]
terrytnewzealand Offline
Megastar

Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 1031
Loc: Whangarei New Zealand
This trinity business has always confused me. Seems it confused the early Christians too. Christianity claims to be a monotheistic religion yet it immediately claims three gods. Not to mention the devil who, if he was part of any other belief system, would be called a god as well. At least Muslims keep it simple in that department. Sorry Blacky, I couldn't resist.

By the way Samwik. What subject was your exam?

Top
#21310 - 05/06/07 09:01 AM Re: Evidence for God [Re: terrytnewzealand]
samwik Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/10/06
Posts: 1164
Loc: Colorado
Hiya Terry, I see what I wrote, but...
Praise be to.....

It was not my final exam that had me up for 36 hrs.

You'd think that for a Master's class, they wouldn't wait until Wed. night to get their paper, due Friday, edited; especially if your ESL. Oh well, that's how we get the big bucks!

As for the Trinity, I wasn't raised any particular way, but always thought the 3-in-1 idea was a good way of breaking our preconceptions about "what God is."

I don't think that was the intent, and a lot of people probably focus on them separately (and maybe even unequally); but viewed just as a philosophical concept, it helps make God a bit less anthropomorphic.

...Not that there's anything wrong with that.... - wink

~~SA
_________________________
Pyrolysis creates reduced carbon! ...Time for the next step in our evolutionary symbiosis with fire.

Top
#21317 - 05/06/07 09:27 PM Re: Evidence for God [Re: Blacknad]
Revlgking Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Blacknad, you quote me as saying
Quote:
I choose to relate to GØD, without being imposed upon by the hope of reward or fear of punishment.
Let me put it another way: I choose to relate to GØD in the same way as I relate to life and existence itself, positively, not out of a false hope or a negative fear.

BTW, generally speaking, this is the kind of relationship chosen by those who accept the approach known as panENtheism, which, as the following shows is not all that new an idea.
Quote:
This universal arrangement is not pantheism (all is God), but panentheism, a term devised by Karl C. F. Krause (1781-1832) to describe his thought. It is best known for its use by Charles Hartshorne and recently by Matthew Fox.

Panentheism says that all is in God, somewhat as if God were the ocean and we were fish. If one considers what is in God's body to be part of God, then we can say that God is all there is and then some. The universe is God's body, but God's awareness or personality is greater than the sum of all the parts of the universe. All the parts have some degree of freedom in co-creating with God.

At the start of its momentary career as a subject, an experience is God--as the divine initial aim. As the experience carries on its choosing process, it is a freely aiming reality that is not strictly God, since it departs from God's purpose to some degree. Yet everything is within God.
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

Top
#21318 - 05/06/07 11:22 PM Re: Evidence for God [Re: Revlgking]
Tim Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 192
Loc: California
Christianity is a monotheistic religion, with God having three parts (personalities?) of Him. There is one God, but He has three masks, if you will. I am not here to preach, but that is what my denominations has to say (unless I am mistaken) about the trinity, for clarification. Good job, Revlgking, I enjoyed your quote: "Let me put it another way: I choose to relate to GØD in the same way as I relate to life and existence itself, positively, not out of a false hope or a negative fear."

Top
Page 32 of 35 < 1 2 ... 30 31 32 33 34 35 >



Newest Members
debbieevans, bkhj, jackk, Johnmattison, RacerGT
865 Registered Users
Sponsor
Facebook

We're on Facebook
Join Our Group

Science a GoGo's Home Page | Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Contact Us
Features | News | Books | Physics | Space | Climate Change | Health | Technology | Natural World

Copyright © 1998 - 2016 Science a GoGo and its licensors. All rights reserved.