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#20769 - 04/23/07 06:00 PM Vanishing honeybees
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
Go to work, come home. Go to work -- and vanish without a trace. Billions of bees have done just that, leaving the crop fields they are supposed to pollinate, and scientists are mystified about why. The phenomenon was first noticed late last year in the United States, where honeybees are used to pollinate $15 billion worth of fruits, nuts and other crops annually. Disappearing bees have also been reported in Europe and Brazil. Commercial beekeepers would set their bees near a crop field as usual and come back in two or three weeks to find the hives bereft of foraging worker bees, with only the queen and the immature insects remaining. Whatever worker bees survived were often too weak to perform their tasks. There have been other fluctuations in the number of honeybees, going back to the 1880s, where there were "mysterious disappearances without bodies just as we're seeing now, but never at this magnitude," Berenbaum said in a telephone interview. Honeybees are not the only pollinators whose numbers are dropping. Other animals that do this essential job -- non-honeybees, wasps, flies, beetles, birds and bats -- have decreasing populations as well. But honeybees are the big actors in commercial pollination efforts. For the full article: Click Here. One of my colleagues heard that cell phones may interfere with honey bee navigation. I couldn't find anything to confirm it but if it is the case we are about to get an opportunity to trade food for cell phones.
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DA Morgan

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#20771 - 04/23/07 06:28 PM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: DA Morgan]
soilguy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/28/05
Posts: 414
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: DA Morgan
One of my colleagues heard that cell phones may interfere with honey bee navigation. I couldn't find anything to confirm it but if it is the case we are about to get an opportunity to trade food for cell phones.


I heard that too, but so far I think that idea came from some kind of brainstorming session or glib conversation that was overheard by a reporter. I heard it twice as a quick "teaser" on NPR and on one of the three networks' news programs. No further explanation was given.

If the problem is cell phones, why couldn't they have figured that out back in the days when I considered cell phones a sign of humanity's impending downfall? Why now, when cell phones have become a vital part of me making a living?

Now if they can blame it on text messaging, that's a different story. I doubt I'll ever have a hankerin' to text someone.
_________________________
When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
--S. Lewis

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#20779 - 04/23/07 11:57 PM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: soilguy]
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England

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#20781 - 04/24/07 12:42 AM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: Blacknad]
Ellis Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
Whatever the reason, we have sent a heap of redoubtable aussie bees to California to help pollinate the almond trees right now. They will then go all over the States and further contingents will be sent throughout the growing season to help with the various friut crops. These little heroes will never be able to come home because so far no one knows why the bees have died. If it is cell phones then the poor little things will probably die too, but I thought that any immature bees still in the hives were all infested with many different viruses.

You are right DA, honey tastes better than cell phones.

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#20791 - 04/24/07 03:02 AM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: Ellis]
terrytnewzealand Offline
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Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 1031
Loc: Whangarei New Zealand
From Dan's summary:

"Billions of bees have done just that, leaving the crop fields they are supposed to pollinate, and scientists are mystified about why."

Happened in NZ too but scientists here blamed varroa mite. Maybe not the only problem. Far fewer honey bees in the last few years but bumble bees are much more common. Presumably less competition from honey bees. Native bees are doing well too but they don't pollinate introduced crop plants so efficiently. In fact I read somewhere that NZ's flora has been profoundly influenced by the fact our native bees have short tongues.

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#20793 - 04/24/07 03:29 AM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: terrytnewzealand]
DA Morgan Offline
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Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
<rhetorical statement>
There's a joke there somewhere.
</rhetorical statement>
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DA Morgan

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#20804 - 04/24/07 07:51 AM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: DA Morgan]
terrytnewzealand Offline
Megastar

Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 1031
Loc: Whangarei New Zealand
Any joke I can think of is mildly naughty, in the Carry On vein.


Edited by terrytnewzealand (04/24/07 07:52 AM)

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#20862 - 04/25/07 05:31 AM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: terrytnewzealand]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Do bees navigate back to the hives at a certain time everyday? If so, one solution might be to shut cell tower transmissions for a specified span of time daily.
What do you think?

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#20864 - 04/25/07 05:52 AM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: ]
Ellis Offline
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Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
I was going to suggest that the bees are probably going home at the same time that everyone in the train carriage is phoning home to tell the entire world they are on the train so that idea may not work---but the thought of those short-tongued bees has completely distracted me!!

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#20882 - 04/25/07 09:29 AM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: Ellis]
samwik Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/10/06
Posts: 1164
Loc: Colorado
I can't believe it's cell phones anyway, but they do "go home" in the evening (but make many trips during the day, so....)

But c'mon:
There have been other fluctuations in the number of honeybees, going back to the 1880s, where there were "mysterious disappearances without bodies just as we're seeing now, but never at this magnitude," Berenbaum said in a telephone interview.

"The main hypotheses are based on the interpretation that the disappearances represent disruptions in orientation behavior and navigation," said May Berenbaum,

Hmmmm, something to do with the brain.

A mysterious ailment called Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD) is causing agricultural honeybees around the country to abandon their hives and disappear.
Theories about what causes the malady range from a rouge protozoan to new chemicals or a soil fungus, but no one knows for sure.

Many diseases affect the brain.
Toxiplasmosis infects mice and causes them to lose their fear of cats.
...and schizophrenia in people....

This bee thing sounds like a good way to disseminate....

Viv la diversity

~SA
_________________________
Pyrolysis creates reduced carbon! ...Time for the next step in our evolutionary symbiosis with fire.

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#20906 - 04/25/07 03:46 PM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: DA Morgan]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Whether cell phones are the problem or not is not difficult to determine.
The problem started in the east coast, spread to the west coast and now is spreading to England and so on. Does this mirror the spread of the cell phone?
The Asian countries were the first to widely adopt the cell phone.
Have the honeybees been wiped out in Japan, Taiwan or Korea already - and no one noticed??
Unless someone can demonstrate a connection between the pattern of cell phone use and vanishing bee, I think we will have to look elsewhere for an answer.


Edited by japland (04/25/07 03:52 PM)

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#20911 - 04/25/07 04:12 PM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: ]
samwik Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/10/06
Posts: 1164
Loc: Colorado
Very good observation, japland.

as I said: "Toxiplasmosis infects mice and causes them to lose their fear of cats. (what a successful vector)
This bee thing sounds like a good way to disseminate...."

...a disease that causes a small clustered population to scatter would be a very successful disease.

Ellis, probably a good thing your little heroes are not returning.

~SA
_________________________
Pyrolysis creates reduced carbon! ...Time for the next step in our evolutionary symbiosis with fire.

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#20947 - 04/26/07 07:23 AM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: samwik]
Ellis Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
Sad though-we like our aussies to come home!

samwik--Is this post really suggesting a big huge conspiracy theory concerning deliberate spreading of disease?!! Probably not but what a great idea--this site really needs a conspiracy section!!!

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#20949 - 04/26/07 09:38 AM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: Ellis]
samwik Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/10/06
Posts: 1164
Loc: Colorado
Sorry, no. I was only referring to the great conspiracy that evolution has inflicted on us.

smile
~SAM
_________________________
Pyrolysis creates reduced carbon! ...Time for the next step in our evolutionary symbiosis with fire.

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#20955 - 04/26/07 05:39 PM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: samwik]
Wolfman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 264
Loc: Pago Pago, American Samoa
My dad first started using an apiarist on our vegetable farm in the mid-60's. We saw an increase in cucmber yields in the first two weeks. The Bees represent a major factor in crop yield.
I remember reading, back in the '60's, that Bee activity was affected by the prescence of Power Transmission Lines. I wouldn't be at all surprised if Cell Phone transmissions are to blame for the disappearance of Bees. Another example of the Arrogance of Man.

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#20959 - 04/26/07 07:47 PM Re: Vanishing honeybees
Mike Kremer Offline

Megastar

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 1696
Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: DA Morgan
Sorry, no. I was only referring to the great conspiracy that evolution has inflicted on us.
smile
~SAM

A conspiracy theory Samwick? You might be right.

First in all seriousness, I don't believe Cellphone waves are disorientating the Bees, either.
Since in California and elsewhere, Farmers have taken to renting out Beehives, which are then placed actually within their orchards to increase the fruit yield.

So how is it possible, that with their hive within a few yards of their nectar, the Bees are unable to return to their Hive?

I prefer to believe Bees become disorientated due to the chemical sprays they pick up thats been previously left on the flower buds.

As soon as Bees realise that they feel disorientated, they would refuse to fly back to their hive, knowing full well that not only would the Worker bees not let them in, but the workers job is to activily kill and throw out ill and dead Bees, as well as cleaning the nest of disease.

Chemical sprays are highly damaging to insects, also to humans.
Thats why the sprayers have to wear a mask.

The known natural disease of Bees, thats been around for dozens of years would be on the increase, since the worker bee's would be decimated, (they eat pollen) as well. Once the Queen dies, the whole hive, or whats left, fly away, probably to die. Since instinct tells them to look for another Queen.

Now for your conspiracy theory Samwick.
I find it amazing that no-one has mentioned that acricultural spraying could be a problem, even part of the problem.
Since its well known for years that insects, flys, spiders, moths, butterflies, even frogs, are dissapearing due to crop spraying.

The possible conspiracy is the $multi-million companys who supply sprays all over USA, and the rest of the world, have
deliberately made sure that Farmer dos'nt make adverse comments about the Company that he gets his sprays from, for fear that he may not get next years supply of spray, nor his next years supply of chemically treated seeds.

Meanwhile the $ Chemcal Co's are probably working quietly, and franticly trying to develop a more insect friendly spray?
Sound credible?

--------------------
"You will never find a real Human being - even in a mirror." .....Mike Kremer.
.
_________________________
.

.
"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.



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#20962 - 04/26/07 08:44 PM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: Wolfman]
redewenur Offline
Megastar

Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 1840
Wolfman: "Another example of the Arrogance of Man."

There's plenty of arrogance in our species, but I'm not sure that arrogance is a special factor in this case. We do what we do because we are what we are. Humans manipulate the environment. We always have done. It's how we survive. There's a difference between us and our chimp cousins, but I don't think there's much in it. There's still naivety and innocence rolled up in parcel of instincts.

(I can see room for controversy in that last sentence)
_________________________
"Time is what prevents everything from happening at once" - John Wheeler

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#20969 - 04/26/07 11:25 PM Re: Vanishing honeybees
Mike Kremer Offline

Megastar

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 1696
Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: DA Morgan
Sorry, no. I was only referring to the great conspiracy that evolution has inflicted on us.

smile
~SAM

You may actually be right about a conspiracy theory Samwick, My tongue in cheek explanation

follows below.

However, regarding bees homing instincts upset by Cellphones, I dont think their radio waves

effect them either.

Since in California, and elsewhere, Bee hives are often rented out to farmers, when they are

actually placed within their flowering orchards, in order to increase fruit yield.

So how could it possible, with the Bee hives placed in the field, within a few yards of their

nectar, that they are unable to return to their Hive?

I prefere to believe Bees become disorientated due to the chemical sprays they pick up thats

left on the flower buds.

Bees, like Ant work together as a team, each has their specialised place. When a Bee feels

disorientated, ill they refuse to fly back into their hive, knowing full well that the Worker

bees job is to not let them in, due to their chemical hyper-brain random activity. Prehaps

not being able to give the guard workers the ciorrect signals? The Worker Bee's other jobs

are to disenfect and clean the hive. of all germs, plus feed and look after the Queen.

Chemical sprays are highly damaging to insects, also to humans.
The orchard and crop sprayers have wear a mask. Have you ever watched a Wasp fly in circles

after being given a quick blast of Wasp killer?

The known natural disease of Bees, that has been around for dozens of years would be on

the increase
, since even the Worker bee's that feed pollen to the Queen would be

decimated, as well. Once the Queen dies, the whole hive, or whats left, fly away, probably to

die. Since instinct tells them to go look for another Queen.

Your Conspiracy idea, for what its worth, might well be due to the following scenario.

I absolutely believe that the $ Million Dollar Co's that produce the crop sprays
have a lot to answer for. it has been well known for years that agricultural sprays decimate

insect life. Butterflies, Moths, Birds, Spiders, even frogs, and Bees, are dissapearing due

to crop spraying.
But I have not found any item where they admit their sprays actually affect Bees, let alone

kill them?
Nor have any Farmers groups openly accused the Companys, regarding Bees alone.
could it be that the farmer is not only afraid of not getting next years supply of chemical

crop sprays, if he opens his mouth, but would not get his chemically treated seed for next

years crops either?
Mean while the Chemical Co's are lying low, feverishly trying to re-formulate a compound

which would be kinder the the bees, and enviroment.
Sound reasonable?

--------------------
"You will never find a real Human being - even in a mirror." .....Mike Kremer.
.
_________________________
.

.
"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.



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#20970 - 04/26/07 11:30 PM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: samwik]
Mike Kremer Offline

Megastar

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 1696
Loc: London UK
You may actually be right about a conspiracy theory Samwick, My tongue in cheek explanation follows below.

However, regarding bees homing instincts upset by Cellphones, I dont think their radio waves effect them either.

Since in California, and elsewhere, Bee hives are often rented out to farmers, when they are actually placed within their flowering orchards, in order to increase fruit yield.

So how could it possible, with the Bee hives placed in the field, within a few yards of their nectar, that they are unable to return to their Hive?

I prefere to believe Bees become disorientated due to the chemical sprays they pick up thats left on the flower buds.

Bees, like Ant work together as a team, each has their specialised place. When a Bee feels disorientated, ill they refuse to fly back into their hive, knowing full well that the Worker bees job is to not let them in, due to their chemical hyper-brain random activity. Prehaps not being able to give the guard workers the ciorrect signals? The Worker Bee's other jobs are to disenfect and clean the hive. of all germs, plus feed and look after the Queen.

Chemical sprays are highly damaging to insects, also to humans.
The orchard and crop sprayers have wear a mask. Have you ever watched a Wasp fly in circles after being given a quick blast of Wasp killer?

The known natural disease of Bees, that has been around for dozens of years would be on the increase, since even the Worker bee's that feed pollen to the Queen would be decimated, as well. Once the Queen dies, the whole hive, or whats left, fly away, probably to die. Since instinct tells them to go look for another Queen.

Your Conspiracy idea, for what its worth, might well be due to the following scenario.

I absolutely believe that the $ Million Dollar Co's that produce the crop sprays
have a lot to answer for. it has been well known for years that agricultural sprays decimate insect life. Butterflies, Moths, Birds, Spiders, even frogs, and Bees, are dissapearing due to crop spraying.
But I have not found any item where they admit their sprays actually affect Bees, let alone kill them?
Nor have any Farmers groups openly accused the Companys, regarding Bees alone.
could it be that the farmer is not only afraid of not getting next years supply of chemical crop sprays, if he opens his mouth, but would not get his chemically treated seed for next years crops either?
Mean while the Chemical Co's are lying low, feverishly trying to re-formulate a compound which would be kinder the the bees, and enviroment.
Sound reasonable?

--------------------
"You will never find a real Human being - even in a mirror." .....Mike Kremer.
.
_________________________
.

.
"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.



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#20974 - 04/27/07 03:12 AM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: Mike Kremer]
Ellis Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
Sorry- can't do the blue link thing but in the Melbourne Age this morning a new theory on this topic---Fungus!

Nosema ceranae no less. It has been found in dead bees and in the hives as well as 2 other fungi and half a dozen viruses. The phenomenom is being described as Colony Collapse Disorder! and the researcher says he is not sure that this latest fungus is THE culprit or not. There have been losses in England and Canada and a quarter of the 2.4 milion colonies in the US.


Well done Mike---admirable theory! Unfortunately only too plausible.






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#21005 - 04/27/07 08:24 PM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: Ellis]
samwik Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/10/06
Posts: 1164
Loc: Colorado
Originally Posted By: Ellis
Sorry- can't do the blue link thing but in the Melbourne Age this morning a new theory on this topic---Fungus!

Nosema ceranae no less. It has been found in dead bees and in the hives as well as 2 other fungi and half a dozen viruses. The phenomenom is being described as Colony Collapse Disorder! and the researcher says he is not sure that this latest fungus is THE culprit or not. There have been losses in England and Canada and a quarter of the 2.4 milion colonies in the US.


Well done Mike---admirable theory! Unfortunately only too plausible.




Y'know, I've got a backyard carpeted with yellow dandelion flowers (sorry suburbia), and it is silent.

There are no bees to be seen.

There are some bird sounds, but no activity; that carpet would normally be undulating with bees.

A Quiet Spring.

Yikes?

~samwik

p.s. Is anyone seeing normal bee numbers? Paucities?


Edited by samwik (04/27/07 08:50 PM)
_________________________
Pyrolysis creates reduced carbon! ...Time for the next step in our evolutionary symbiosis with fire.

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#21020 - 04/28/07 01:16 AM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: samwik]
Wolfman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 264
Loc: Pago Pago, American Samoa
Samwik, your post reminded me of when I was living in Canada. April 23rd is St' George's Day, and is considered, by certain enthusiasts, as the best day of the year to pick Dandelions for wine-making. I'd batch about 40 Gallons every Spring. It was a HUGE hit the following Christmas, and I got dozens of requests to supply weddings.
And, yes, the Bees would be out in hordes on St. George's Day.

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#21026 - 04/28/07 03:31 AM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: Wolfman]
Mike Kremer Offline

Megastar

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 1696
Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: Wolfman
Samwik, your post reminded me of when I was living in Canada..........................


Hehehe.
Hi Wolfman, your post reminded me of when I was living in Canada.
It was illegal to distil a potent brew.
So I invented us a brew that that had a bigger effect upon the brain than liquor.
Mash up some fresh field mushrooms, add water plus sugar, plus ONE multi-vitamin tab per gallon jar.
It would blow our heads off.
Never had the courage to try it again since.

Mike Kremer
_________________________
.

.
"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.



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#21030 - 04/28/07 06:53 AM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: Mike Kremer]
samwik Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/10/06
Posts: 1164
Loc: Colorado
Hiya Mike,
Hey, I ref.'d your physics post in my last response on the GW forum 'survey' thread.

I've got some year old homemade pesto in the fridge that'd probably do the same thing as your 'shroom juice. smile We've grown some wicked apple cider and grape cider in our fridge too.

Hey, I did see about 5 bees late this afternoon, but...will keep posting.

Did anyone see my post at end of first page about Toxoplasmosis (a cat disease) also infects mice brains, causing mice to loose their fear of cats, thus completing the cycle. I learned that a few months ago and I still think it's amazing. Is that common knowledge? I think it's an amazing example of evolution at work.

Again, I was thinking about how some disease could change bee behavior. CCD would sure help disseminate the disease.

~samwik
_________________________
Pyrolysis creates reduced carbon! ...Time for the next step in our evolutionary symbiosis with fire.

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#21036 - 04/28/07 09:16 AM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: samwik]
terrytnewzealand Offline
Megastar

Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 1031
Loc: Whangarei New Zealand
Mike. Are you sure they were field mushrooms?

On topic. We have quite a few bees around our small block of land but the block hasn't had any pesticides for years. Possibly some support for Mike's theory.

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#21048 - 04/28/07 06:45 PM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: terrytnewzealand]
Mike Kremer Offline

Megastar

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 1696
Loc: London UK
Originally Posted By: terrytnewzealand
Mike. Are you sure they were field mushrooms?

Errr, I may have put in a couple from the 'Amanita' family, to spike it up a bit? Seems like something I might have done, in my younger days.
Originally Posted By: terrytnewzealand

On topic. We have quite a few bees around our small block of land but the block hasn't had any pesticides for years. Possibly some support for Mike's theory.

I think New Zealand is recognised as one of the most pesticide free countrys in the world.
Can you believe that our UK National Health Service give out small tubes of NZ honey (its only found in your country)
to use for healing leg ulcers!
Cant rem the name, but the eating variety, is twice the price in health shops here.
.
"You will never find a real Human being - even in a mirror." .....Mike Kremer.
.

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#21058 - 04/29/07 08:22 AM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: Mike Kremer]
terrytnewzealand Offline
Megastar

Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 1031
Loc: Whangarei New Zealand
Mike wrote:

"I think New Zealand is recognised as one of the most pesticide free countrys in the world."

That would be the promotional propaganda. We spray 'em round as much as, if not more than, any one else. Especially per head of population. The honey would be manuka (Leptospermum scoparium), also called teatree. Member of the Myrtaceae family. Supposed to have magical curing properties. Possibly may have if UK NHS gives it out. Oz teatree is genus melaleuca (spelling prob not correct but plenty of Ozzies to tell us what it should be). Same genus I think.

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#21078 - 04/30/07 04:39 AM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: terrytnewzealand]
Ellis Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
The honey from the Oz teatree is marketed as healing honey and is said to contain natural antibiotics. It is readily available, and I think that the idea did originate here. Can't spell it either but something does look NQR about your effort terry!

Is the disappearance of NZ bees official.? Obviously if Oz bees are rushing to their sister's aid in the US they are still prolific here. Certainly they were around last summer.

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#21079 - 04/30/07 04:40 AM Re: Vanishing honeybees *DELETED* [Re: terrytnewzealand]
Ellis Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
Post deleted by Amaranth Rose II

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#21080 - 04/30/07 04:40 AM Re: Vanishing honeybees *DELETED* [Re: Ellis]
Ellis Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
Post deleted by Amaranth Rose II

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#21084 - 04/30/07 05:11 AM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: Ellis]
samwik Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/10/06
Posts: 1164
Loc: Colorado
Melaleuca alternifolia is the source of tea tree oil that I use.

~samwik
_________________________
Pyrolysis creates reduced carbon! ...Time for the next step in our evolutionary symbiosis with fire.

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#21093 - 04/30/07 09:09 AM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: Ellis]
terrytnewzealand Offline
Megastar

Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 1031
Loc: Whangarei New Zealand
The lowered population of honeybees here is attributed to varroa mite. Pretty well accepted. By the way, boo boo in previous post. Melaleuca (spelling off internet) is obviously not in same genus as NZ teatree. That's the genus name after all. Same family and possibly even more closely related. Oz has Leptospermums as well. Totally off the wall, here is a site dealing with them for those who have nothing better to do:

http://www.anbg.gov.au/leptospermum/index.html

I found it interesting anyway.


Edited by terrytnewzealand (04/30/07 09:14 AM)

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#21094 - 04/30/07 09:15 AM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: terrytnewzealand]
terrytnewzealand Offline
Megastar

Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 1031
Loc: Whangarei New Zealand
Sorry Sam. I didn't see your post.

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#21204 - 05/03/07 01:45 AM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: Ellis]
Amaranth Rose II Offline

Superstar

Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 962
Loc: Southeast Nebraska, USA
Here's a more recent link to the honeybee story.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070502/ap_on_sc/honeybee_die_off

It's hard to imagine a world without orange juice or cranberries.
_________________________
If you don't care for reality, just wait a while; another will be along shortly. --A Rose


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#21207 - 05/03/07 01:56 AM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: Amaranth Rose II]
Mitthrawnuruodo Offline
Member

Registered: 04/05/07
Posts: 30
Loc: Empire State
The cranberries I can do without Rose wink. I have noticed a lack of bees this Spring and reading your article references; perhaps this is why. Just goes to show how dependent upon mother nature-even the humble bee we are. Is this a world-wide phenom?
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#21208 - 05/03/07 02:04 AM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: Mitthrawnuruodo]
Amaranth Rose II Offline

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The article mentions several locations where this is a problem. Apparently it has not hit Australia, as we are getting replacement bees from there. How long this will hold up is anyone's guess. If it is a disease it may find a way to spread all over the world eventually.

Cranberries are good for you. I like them ground up with apples and oranges and sweetened for all they are worth. They contain loads of anti-oxidants and polyphenols. They are good for your kidneys and a good source of fiber. I don't eat them straight up, although I know some who do. To each his/her own. But if the alfalfa crop fails I know some farmers around here who are going to be awfully disappointed, and selling cows at rock-bottom prices. Maybe this year I'll be able to afford beef! smile
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#21214 - 05/03/07 04:33 AM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: Amaranth Rose II]
Ellis Offline
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Interesting article. Taiwan also has dying honeybees too, as have other parts of Asia. A point from the article --someone was commenting that we are too dependent on honeybees--- Einstein apparently said that wiping out the honeybee would cause the death of mankind in 3 years. In view of the arrogance of someone who can declare that we are too dependent on their pollinating our crops, I can only say we will have only ourselves to blame as I feel that overuse of chemicals may be a cause of this present situation. We have seen before that eradication of bacteria has lead to beneficial bacteria being eliminated alongside disease carrying ones.The death of honeybees could, if not stopped, lead to the death of all seeded crops, and possibly grasses too. The latter would be a disaster too terrible to imagine.

These are of course only my opinions and probably not good science, but those bees are very important and not many people seem to know that they are disappearing.

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#21223 - 05/03/07 09:06 AM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: Ellis]
samwik Offline
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from current National Geographic Magazine.

But the largest ecological impact may have been wreaked by a much smaller, seemingly benign domestic animal: the European honeybee. In early 1622, a ship arrived in Jamestown that was a living exhibit of the Columbian exchange. It was loaded with exotic entities for the colonists to experiment with: grapevine cuttings, silkworm eggs, and beehives. Most bees pollinate only a few species; they tend to be fussy about where they live. European honeybees, promiscuous beasts, reside almost anywhere and pollinate almost anything in sight. Quickly, they swarmed from their hives and set up shop throughout the Americas.

The English imported the bees for honey, not to pollinate crops—pollination wasn't widely understood until the late 19th century—but feral honeybees pollinated farms and orchards up and down the East Coast anyway. Without them, many of the plants the Europeans brought with them wouldn't have proliferated. Georgia probably wouldn't have become the Peach State; Johnny Appleseed's trees might never have borne fruit; Huckleberry Finn might not have had any watermelons to steal. So critical to European success was the honeybee that Indians came to view it as a harbinger of invasion; the first sight of one in a new territory, noted French-American writer Jean de Crèvecoeur in 1782, "spreads sadness and consternation in all [Indian] minds."
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#21233 - 05/03/07 09:54 PM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: Ellis]
Amaranth Rose II Offline

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Not to worry about grasses; they are wind pollinated. But alfalfa, buckwheat, and most fruit trees require honey bees to pollinate them.
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If you don't care for reality, just wait a while; another will be along shortly. --A Rose


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#21325 - 05/07/07 03:40 AM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: Amaranth Rose II]
Ellis Offline
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Registered: 01/08/07
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Sad news on the radio today. Our brave little bees are dying! It appears that, as feared, the little Aussie girls were not immune to the "thing" that is killing the bees in America. The latest information is that whatever it is totally wrecks the bee's immune system, and leaves it vulnerable to other infections. 90% of all crops in the US are crops that need to be pollinated by insects, primarily bees.

AR- Good news about grasses, thanks.

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#21326 - 05/07/07 03:53 AM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: Ellis]
Wolfman Offline
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Loc: Pago Pago, American Samoa
NINETY PERCENT!!!
Maybe this is the Big Wake Up Call.

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#21766 - 05/24/07 01:07 AM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: samwik]
Mike Kremer Offline

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The Salt Lake Tribune
Article Last Updated: 05/23/2007 08:57:35 AM MDT

LOGAN -- A Cache Valley beekeeper is blaming peticides for the hundreds of dead bees he found clustered at a hive entrance.
Darren Cox says he's had this problem before.
The third-generation honey producer says he experienced huge losses from 2001 to 2005 due to insecticides. He says he would find dead bees an inch thick throughout the yard.
When he had them tested they tested positive for pesticides.
Utah State University bee researcher Rosalind James says spraying can cause problems for beekeepers. She says many of the die-offs occur when pesticide product labels are ignored.
Bee Inspector Martin James says communication is key to preventing the deaths.
He says his neighbors notify him that they are spraying so he can protect his bees.
Those who do ignore pesticide labels can face a fine of more than $500.

Mike Kremer
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#21772 - 05/24/07 03:07 AM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: Mike Kremer]
Amaranth Rose II Offline

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A $500 fine does not replace a single honeybee. Those responsible should be forced to do without any bee-pollinated foodstuffs for one year, minimum. That would teach them to respect bees and beekeepers, I think. It might go a long way toward helping solve the problem. Like they say, "if you ain't part of the solution you is part of the problem."
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If you don't care for reality, just wait a while; another will be along shortly. --A Rose


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#21804 - 05/26/07 03:48 AM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: Amaranth Rose II]
Ellis Offline
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Registered: 01/08/07
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$500 ? For a honey bee?

Oscar Wilde was probably right when he suggested that some people know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

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#21966 - 06/07/07 09:01 PM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: Ellis]
redewenur Offline
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The problem is now even more widespread:

"Since the last ATCA article in February which was focused on the mysterious sudden disappearance of bees new data has come in and the problem is growing. Colony Collapse Disorder has now been determined to be affecting 30 states up from 22 in the United States and is now also showing up in Canada. Other European countries like Germany, Poland, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Croatia, Switzerland and Greece are also reporting bee die-offs."

Climate change is a prime suspect:

"The factor that could play the biggest role considering the planet wide scope is the climate and extreme or unusual weather patterns. Pesticides and genetically modified plants have also been indicated as factors in what may be a compound effect. Some of the causes of the die-offs are known, often the result of an increasing number of viral mutations, or a fungus spreading in abundance due to a warmer climate."

http://www.mi2g.com/cgi/mi2g/frameset.php?pageid=http%3A//www.mi2g.com/cgi/mi2g/press/070607.php [07 June 2007]
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#21975 - 06/08/07 05:26 PM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: redewenur]
paul Offline
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I live in the DEEP south.
usually there are plenty of bees everywhere.

this year I have seen (1) and that was yesterday.
it was a bumblebee not a honeybee.

there have been lots of fires in the south east sector of the U.S. and that is probably the reason or at least one reason for the bees to move away.

smoke might make bees move to other locations not only calm them.
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#21976 - 06/08/07 05:38 PM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: paul]
paul Offline
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perhaps farmers should plant a row of nectar bearring flowers every 20 - 30 rows of crops.

this would attract bees at a earlier time of year and sustain them as well as they move through the fields.


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3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#22222 - 06/20/07 06:35 PM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: paul]
paul Offline
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Registered: 03/21/06
Posts: 4136
beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

I wonder if a helicopter could also polinate crops.
since bee keepers charge so much these days..
if you can find one that has bees to rent.

if not just put some flowers some old clothes and rotten food in the fields.

butterflies, moths, wasp , flies etc will do the job.






Edited by paul (06/20/07 06:40 PM)
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3/4 inch of dust build up on the moon in 4.527 billion years,LOL and QM is fantasy science.

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#24299 - 11/13/07 05:50 AM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: paul]
Ellis Offline
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Loc: Australia
It was suspected that the Australian bees imported to help the farmers in the US, may have infected the American bees with the latest virus- however now they are cleared as it appears that the new virus was in the US for 2 years before the Oz bees arrived!! It is believed the virus came from Israel. The Oz bees seem to be surviving, and curiously some do show the virus but are still alive. There is a way to go on this I feel. We need to check more thoroughly any non-indigeonous plants and living things brought into countries... eg..Beware the cane toad, the rabbit, the prickly pear and now the Equine Influenza!

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#26170 - 05/24/08 06:03 AM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: Ellis]
Ellis Offline
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How are the bees this Spring? I heard on the radio that it wasn't going at all well and bees were falling in numbers again in the US. Is this so?


Edited by Ellis (05/24/08 06:06 AM)
Edit Reason: correction

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#26178 - 05/24/08 05:02 PM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: Ellis]
paul Offline
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Registered: 03/21/06
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Ellis

Quote:
How are the bees this Spring?


I have a small garden , last year I only saw 1 honeybee somewhere
I dont remember where it was , but it wasnt in my garden.

this year I allowed a row of weeds to grow between my planted rows and several types of wild flowers grew on the rows I left to nature.

I noticed hundreds of honeybees this year , along with bumblebees , wasp , hornets , all types of insects.

my garden seems to be doing its work again , if only I would apply as much work.

anyway to answer your question , they are ok in my garden.

it may be that the extra shade provided by the weeds are cooling down the garden a little more and this helps the bees.

the added variety of wild flowers nectar to the garden and the added shade might be something to look into.

I felt the ground under the thick weeds and the ground was cool , the air just above the ground was cool , I felt the ground around my planted plants and the ground was hot.

there may be a little help that farmers can give to the bees to help them survive.

so that we can survive...













Edited by paul (05/24/08 05:13 PM)
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#27301 - 07/26/08 01:54 AM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: paul]
Ellis Offline
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There is an article on the left hand side of the opening page about the vanishing honey bees. It seems that things are not any better. Are there any stories on this during the summer season in the Northern Hemisphere? Is it a worry at all?

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#27305 - 07/26/08 04:07 AM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: Ellis]
Amaranth Rose II Offline

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It is a big worry. About three quarters of the food in our grocery stores is pollinated by honeybees. Some beekeepers have lost as much as 75% of their hives. No one knows for sure what causes it, and there is much speculation. One source even suggested that cell phones were to blame (they're not). Researchers are keen to find the cause, as it is very injurious to the hives. They are not finding dead bees anywhere, so that is part of the mystery.
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#27334 - 07/27/08 09:57 PM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: Amaranth Rose II]
Zephir Offline
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Registered: 07/01/08
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By my opinion, the bees colony collapse disorder (CCD) is the consequence of gradual sensitization of bees by pollens of transgenic plants (GMO), the "roundup ready" soybeans, rape and maize pollen in particular. The reason is similar structure of toxins, which are produced by GMO organism and Bacillus Thuringiensis (bacterial allergen) and the fact, the pollens are food supply for bees. The allergenicity follows from immune response of bees to the unusual proteins in food, which results in gradual sensitization. The same origin is the "white nose" syndrome of bats, which is basically a sort of vasomotor rhinitis. Some modern pesticides, like Imidacloprid can be suspected too - but by my opinion, the GMO is the most probable reason, because of short history of both transgenic plant growing, both the CCD.

The sensitization mechanism is the sort of vaccination: the organism of bee is trying to find a proper antidote in contact with foreign protein (allergen). Normally, the fast mutation of imunoglobuline production succeeds in production of the proper antidote, which neutralizes the foreign protein and it prohibits the infection. The concentration of foreign protein in organism decreases, so that the immune system is informed, his response was successful and it stops the mutation and production of another imunoglobulines.

But at the case, the contact with foreign protein is prolonged/repetitive (which is the case of contact of bees with GMO pollens), the immune system of bees is forced to produce new antidotes again and again, because the concentration of foreign protein in organism cannot decrease. Such stock antidotes are capable to induce the immune response even in contact with common proteins, which are harmless under common circumstances - they become allergens, too. This is the way, how the vasomotor rhinitis evolves in prolonged contact with allergens.

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#27339 - 07/28/08 03:48 AM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: Zephir]
redewenur Offline
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Registered: 02/14/07
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Interesting, Zaphir. but there's a great deal of unsupported conjecture in your argument, is there not? Any references to related research into your well defined theory? It might be better to stick to the term 'rhinitis' rather than 'vasomotor rhinitis', since the latter is non-allergenic. By the way, do bees have vasomotor neurones?

The Wiki entry on CCD:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony_Collapse_Disorder

It includes a discussion of genetically modified crops as a possible cause.

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#27340 - 07/28/08 09:21 AM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: redewenur]
Zephir Offline
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Registered: 07/01/08
Posts: 498
I see, I just used blindly the czech translation of Czech phrase "alergická rinitida" from my favorite online vocabulary, which is nonsense. Thank you for your notice. The bees indeed cannot have a vasomotor rhinitis, while the bats supposedly can, being mammals.

GMO origin of CCD is indeed hypothesis in its present state, but here are some evidence, the import of GMO soybean has increased the allergy occurrence even at the case of humans. We should realize, the active BT-toxins of GMO crops are coming from soil bacteria, which is very similar to anthrax and for immune system couldn't be so easy to distinguish it safely. The problem is, the soil bacteria toxins never appeared in food during human/bees evolution, so here's a risk in mixing food from different sources (the similar story is lactose allergy, which occurs at places, where ancient people never consumed the milk of other animals).



The above doesn't mean indeed, every GMO is dangerous - but here's a general problem in mixing of genes and proteins of organisms, which never met in food chain during long-term evolution. The organism of bees/humans was used to fight with every protein of soil bacteria for megayears, so now - when these proteins are incorporated into food intentionally - their immune systems are literally "scrambled" and "terrified" in the sense of immunologic response, which is complex chain of chemical reactions, exhibiting their own "memory" and "intelligence". We shouldn't cross the rules of evolution (which are given by long-term metabolic equilibrium) carelessly, or we will pay for it.

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#27348 - 07/29/08 12:09 AM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: Zephir]
Mike Kremer Offline

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The subject is 'Vanishing honeybees' so I am assuming whenever the word bee's are used it relates to honeybees, and not bumble bees?
Bumble bees live in small colonies, usually underground, in foxholes or mouse holes, under a flagstone, even behind a house airbrick. They only produce a small amount of honey just sufficient for their needs, but they are good pollinators which is why large greenhouse keepers use them, rather than the large colonies of honey bees that are kept out in the open, in man made hives.
Bumble bees do not appear to be disappearing or dying as the honey bee is, as far as I know?

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"You will never find a real Human being - Even in a mirror." ....Mike Kremer.



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#27350 - 07/29/08 08:44 AM Re: Vanishing honeybees [Re: Mike Kremer]
Zephir Offline
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Registered: 07/01/08
Posts: 498
The problem is, the bumble bee populations are not so easy to monitor, like the honey bees, which are of primary economic interest. As a wild species living in small collonies in diaspora (dispersion), bumble bees are not so sensitive to local attacks of other infestants, like the parasitic mites. There is reliable evidence, that some North American pollinator species have gone extinct, become locally extirpated, or have declined in number. At least two bumble bee species, one of which is a crop pollinator, could face imminent extinction, and several other pollinators have declined significantly.

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