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#19374 - 03/23/07 07:29 AM Re: Alchemy...possible? [Re: redewenur]
DA Morgan Offline
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Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
I was expecting better than that. Seems like the coincidence is essentially insignificant. I suspect it only sticks in your mind as both the dream and the reality had a similar emotional content.
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#19379 - 03/23/07 07:49 AM Re: Alchemy...possible? [Re: DA Morgan]
redewenur Offline
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Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 1840
DA.

"I was expecting better than that."

- What do you want? A miracle? <g>

"Seems like the coincidence is essentially insignificant."

- An understandable and duly scientific assumption, since the data to which you have access is limited to the words that I typed. You don't have access to the experiential data, i.e, the highly detailed contents of the dream, with the geographic features of the land, locations of buildings - the temple, for example, the only one of its kind on a beach. Also, the angle of view of all these things - the same in the dream and in the reality. Think on it if you like - or not.

I would be stretching reason way too far to fool myself that it was coincidence. That would definitely be Purple Rhino territory.

Can I prove it? No. Can I do the trick again? Well, it never happened before, nor since. Is it a testable, repeatable phenomanon? Very unlikely. So why do I accept it as 'precognition'? Because I witnessed it.

It's of no practical consequence. It doesn't earn me a better quality of life. As my mother would have said "It doesn't get the baby bathed". It doesn't appeal to any need for mystery or religious experience. It just happened. It therefore has implications for my considerations of space, time and mind.

Conclusions:

(1) I don't discount the possibility of Wayne's 'atemporal universe'.
(2) It may be possible that mind is confined neither by space nor time.
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#19388 - 03/23/07 04:25 PM Re: Alchemy...possible? [Re: redewenur]
quantum Offline
Member

Registered: 03/21/07
Posts: 51
Loc: Croatia
To wayne:
NO, i didn't said it is definitely possible, i didn't said people didn't tried it, i just wanted to say that science is about proving or disproving a theory and so far science wasn't able to accurately confute the possibility of having precognitions (and could't confirm - true).
also, it is sure that people are not the same and if there are such things as precog dreams or thoughts, they wouldn't appear at the same extent amoung everybody.

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#19392 - 03/23/07 04:31 PM Re: Alchemy...possible? [Re: quantum]
quantum Offline
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Registered: 03/21/07
Posts: 51
Loc: Croatia
redewenur:
I would be stretching reason way too far to fool myself that it was coincidence. Can I prove it? No. Can I do the trick again? Well, it never happened before, nor since. Is it a testable, repeatable phenomanon? Very unlikely. So why do I accept it as 'precognition'? Because I witnessed it.

as i said, happend to me more than once and since you just said this i believe you know what i mean.
i want to think completely scientificaly but concerning this phenomena i simply can't.

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#19425 - 03/23/07 08:34 PM Re: Alchemy...possible? [Re: quantum]
DA Morgan Offline
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redewenur wrote:
"You don't have access to the experiential data, i.e, the highly detailed contents of the dream, with the geographic features of the land, locations of buildings - the temple, for example, the only one of its kind on a beach."

True, very true, but neither do you now nor did you then. You had no photograph to hold up to make that comparison. And as you well know from numerous double-blind studies the mind is more then capable of filling in the blanks. In fact we now have substantial data showing that what the brain records from the eyes is a far cry from photographic. And isn't it convenient how you discount those parts of the picture that weren't there while adding weight to those that were. A classical case of painting the target after firing the arrow.

Not that you did it intentionally ... it is just that this is precisely how the human mind words. Sorry to say ... you're only human. <g>
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#19428 - 03/23/07 08:47 PM Re: Alchemy...possible? [Re: DA Morgan]
redewenur Offline
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Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 1840
Your argument is rational. Your conclusion is, in this case incorrect; but you're right, in the scientific sense, not to take my word for it. No further comment <g>
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#20538 - 04/17/07 05:03 AM Re: Alchemy...possible? [Re: redewenur]
reasonable Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/17/07
Posts: 4
Xcuse me for bargin in (so late) gentlemen, but how can you discuss alchemy if you apparently know so little about it?

Allow me to enlighten you. The following is a very brief description.

Alchemy, first of all, was about transmutation of a human and all that metal talk was a code for initiated. The uninitiated evolved into chemists. The initiated alchemist sought personal evolution. The stuff the legends are made of.

Much of the European tradition has been lost. The best preserved and now revived with scientific exploration etc. is Chinese alchemy, which nowadays is called qigong. There are literarly thousands of schools, most of which deal with simple health matters or martial arts. But the knowledge is there for those who seek it.

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#20548 - 04/17/07 06:17 AM Re: Alchemy...possible? [Re: reasonable]
redewenur Offline
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Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 1840
Hi, reasonable.
You appear to presume that, because Hermeticism, Rosicrucianism and so on haven't been discussed here, that we must all be ignorant of it. Not so.

RECONMAN started this thread with the following post. Note point 3. Also note, below it, his last sentence.

Originally Posted By: RECONMAN
Alchemy's goals are

1. The transmutation of metals

2. The creation of an elixir that would prolong life indefinitely

3. The transmutation of human life

I was wondering, with modern science, would it be possible to transmutate metals by switching up atoms and stuff? And the transmutation of human life, isn't that like cloning?

http://www.crystalinks.com/alchemy2.html

The thread was not intended to be a discussion of the scope of alchemy. It was specifically about the possibility of applying modern science to the transmutation of metals.

RECONMAN's question was addressed in the earlier posts. Admittedly there have since been various digressions, but that's par for the course smile

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#20558 - 04/17/07 11:49 AM Re: Alchemy...possible? [Re: redewenur]
DA Morgan Offline
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Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
reasonable wrote:
"Alchemy, first of all, was about transmutation of a human and all that metal talk was a code for initiated"

Source please. Name, author, publisher, page.

We're not in the habit of taking such statements as having value without being able to verify the source.

Thank you.
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#20597 - 04/18/07 04:53 PM Re: Alchemy...possible? [Re: RECONMAN]
Truely_Grim Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/18/07
Posts: 6
Loc: PA
hey ive been reading this forum for some time now and i think that mankind has already hit these 3 points on the head. we have changed metals with science, doctors have created new medicene 2 increase the life time of dieing people, and well i dont have a lot of research done cause im only 17 and i dont have the best grades...i just wanted my opinion out there
thanks 4 reading
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#20598 - 04/18/07 04:55 PM Re: Alchemy...possible? [Re: Truely_Grim]
Truely_Grim Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/18/07
Posts: 6
Loc: PA
...sorry i forgot to ask if u guys could explain to me what the purple rinos are and tell me about alchemy
i might be young but i want to know more and ive been goin crazy and i cant find trustworthy sites to tell me...
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#20609 - 04/18/07 08:01 PM Re: Alchemy...possible? [Re: Truely_Grim]
redewenur Offline
Megastar

Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 1840
TG, if you're interested in the history of alchemy, or fascinated by its mysticism, there are many websites about it. Here's one:
http://www.levity.com/alchemy/

- but note the first words on the subject in the Encyclopedia Britannica:

"alchemy [:] a form of speculative thought that, among other aims, tried to transform base metals such as lead or copper into silver or gold and to discover a cure for disease and a way of extending life."

If your real interest is in science, you won't want to waste too much time on speculative thought from centuries past.

(For a definition of a 'invisible purple rhino', ask DA Morgan laugh )

P.S. - to avoid double-posts, use the 'Edit' button smile
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#20624 - 04/19/07 01:45 AM Re: Alchemy...possible? [Re: redewenur]
terrytnewzealand Offline
Megastar

Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 1031
Loc: Whangarei New Zealand
Truly-Grim. Rede is correct. DA Morgan is the resident expert on purple rhinos. Others of us imagine pink elephants when we have consumed too much alcohol, seems you see black beasts, Dan imagines invisible purple rhinos. To be truthful he doubts their existence but others of us know better.

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