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#20569 - 04/17/07 07:44 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
What about economics? Is it a hard or soft science? Speaking of which, I find the following interesting about getting rid of the
THE LAW OF SUPPLY AND DEMAND:

http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=518015

BTW, DA, I promise not to campaign to get rid of you...I mean any of your threads...or have you certified as....??????

BTW 2: Credit the LAW OF CHRISTIAN LOVE for Christians being willing to be this way. As Paul puts it in his great poem about love, I Corinthians 13: Love looks for a way of being constructive...not possessive...has good manners...not selfish, not touchy...does not gloat over the sins and evil of others and the hell they insist on making for themselves and others...glad with all, (especially scientists) when truth prevails...it endures, trusts, hopes...suffers long and is kind....

Faith and hope are great and lasting qualities...but love is the greatest.
With thanks for the help of the JB Phillip's translation.


Edited by Revlgking (04/17/07 07:49 PM)
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#20570 - 04/17/07 07:54 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
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Political Science, a hard science?
http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract;jsessionid=B889944762A8A7DFE26C6182AC43DA7E.tomcat1?fromPage=online&aid=134485#
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#20575 - 04/17/07 11:12 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
DA Morgan Offline
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Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
No we are not into diagnose. We are into pointing out hypocrisy.

That done YOYO!
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#20580 - 04/18/07 12:34 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: DA Morgan]
Revlgking Offline
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Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Originally Posted By: DA Morgan
No we are not into diagnose. We are into pointing out hypocrisy.

That done YOYO!
As one who has asked quite a few questions about the nature and function of science--of which I know so little--I was kinda hoping we were into education, if there is any available. Is there????

Perhaps some people are more qualified to teach us about the nature and function of hypocrisy, eh? smile


Edited by Revlgking (04/18/07 12:44 AM)
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#20583 - 04/18/07 12:59 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
DA Morgan Offline
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Registered: 10/17/04
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revlgking wrote:
"I was kinda hoping we were into education"

were ... past tense.

You wasted your opportunity and your sincerity rating here is 0.

I am marking you *** Ignore *** and hope others do too.
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#20584 - 04/18/07 01:29 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: DA Morgan]
Wolfman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 264
Loc: Pago Pago, American Samoa
My son called earlier today, it's my 55th birthday. We talked for close to an hour and in the course of our conversation he asked me how the fishing went this year. I got a few Billfish and plenty of Skipjacks, but not a single Bigeye Tuna. We used to pull in close to 50 in a season. If the fish are starting to get scarce way out here in the vast South Pacific, we've really screwed things up. He used a term that I thought was very insightful. The "Arrogance of Man", is to blame for how we've treated our planet.
And now, perusing these postings on religion, it strikes me - how much more "arrogant" can you get than to think that a Diety created us in his image?

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#20590 - 04/18/07 07:54 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Wolfman]
DA Morgan Offline
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Loc: Seattle, WA
No doubt T. rex thought the same thing.

Our time is coming too if we don't do a lot better.
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#20594 - 04/18/07 09:14 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Wolfman]
redewenur Offline
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Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 1840
A brief digression:

Originally Posted By: Wolfman
...not a single Bigeye Tuna. We used to pull in close to 50 in a season.

A link re overfishing of Bigeye tuna -
http://www.bigmarinefish.com/bigeye_tuna.html

The chart (Fig 8) was created a few years ago, and shows a projection, coincidentally, to the present. From what you say, the dotted line (medium projection) was much too optimistic, and the lowest projection is what your local catches suggest.
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#20595 - 04/18/07 10:26 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: redewenur]
Wolfman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/17/06
Posts: 264
Loc: Pago Pago, American Samoa
Rede, that's a very eye-opening chart. If those guys are taking little wee tuna, 3.2 kg, the fish don't stand a chance of procreating. The lures that we use around here will only attract bites from fish weighing 15 lbs. and up. The dark red flesh of the Bigeye is excellent as sushi, the Japanese go crazy for it.

I doubt that Climatic change affects the Bigeye, they're very deep swimming fish.

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#20596 - 04/18/07 02:09 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Wolfman]
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England

Hiya Wolfy,

I’m sure you’re not looking for a long response to a single comment but here goes anyway smile

Originally Posted By: Wolfman
...how much more "arrogant" can you get than to think that a Deity created us in his image?


On one level it could be seen that way, but what are the implications of being created in the image of a god?

1. The idea of being created in a creator’s image is simply saying that we have the capacity to love, to reason, to understand morality and to have a desire to create.

2. On the other hand, the idea of there being a creator that is all knowing (we are not), all powerful (we are not), eternal and uncreated (we are not), places us in a position where it is difficult to be arrogant. Christian scriptures also warn of us not thinking of ourselves as ‘little gods’, but to have a realistic understanding of who we are.

3. Being created means that we are answerable to something else besides our own whims and desires. It means we are not entirely autonomous and we have responsibilities that extend outwards from ourselves. Again there is no room for arrogance here.

4. We are told that whilst we are created in a creator’s image, we live here only for a period and that we are held responsible for the legacy we leave behind on this planet. We are told that the planet is a gift and that we will collectively hand it back. The inference is that we should return it in as good a condition as we received it. We are STEWARDS of its resources and are accountable. Again this precludes us arrogantly squandering what we have.

For me personally, the idea that we have been created does not lead to arrogance but to humility.

If you think it’s always the province of the religious to show arrogance then I would remind you of the many non-religious dictators that have shown unbelievable levels of arrogance in their belief that they and they alone, know what is best for entire nations, including what sections of society they should liquidate.

Blacknad.

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#20613 - 04/18/07 08:20 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Blacknad]
DA Morgan Offline
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Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
Wolfman wrote:
"I doubt that Climatic change affects the Bigeye, they're very deep swimming fish."

You may well be correct in your conclusion but not for the reason you cite.

Almost all marine life starts at the surface: The sole exception, of which I am aware, being life fueled by undersea thermal activity.

If warming is affecting the surface then changes will percolate downward eventually affecting all lifeforms in some manner.
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#20614 - 04/18/07 08:22 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Blacknad]
DA Morgan Offline
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Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
Lets be honest here.

The word "image" as used in the text can be interpreted in multiple ways by multiple people to mean any darned thing they want.

It is roughly the equivalent of saying A is like B.

Yeah? In what way?

Like almost all theological writing it has no substance. And I don't think that is accidental.
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#20622 - 04/19/07 01:17 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Blacknad]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Originally Posted By: Blacknad

Hiya Wolfy,

I’m sure you’re not looking for a long response to a single comment but here goes anyway smile....Blacknad.
Blacknad, lots of good thought in this post to Wolfy.

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#20626 - 04/19/07 02:10 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
terrytnewzealand Offline
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Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 1031
Loc: Whangarei New Zealand
Blacknad wrote:

"4. We are told that whilst we are created in a creator’s image, we live here only for a period and that we are held responsible for the legacy we leave behind on this planet. We are told that the planet is a gift and that we will collectively hand it back. The inference is that we should return it in as good a condition as we received it. We are STEWARDS of its resources and are accountable. Again this precludes us arrogantly squandering what we have."

Now Blacky, I'd like to believe you but the evidence seems to indicate that many religious people believe their God is going to return some time soon and, like their parents used to do, clean up any mess they make. This means they feel no responsibility for the condition they leave the earth in. It doesn't matter. Good old God's gonna clean it all up.

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#20776 - 04/23/07 09:39 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: terrytnewzealand]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
TerryNZ, when you write: "Good old God's gonna clean it all up."

What do you have in mind?
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G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#20777 - 04/23/07 11:03 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
DA Morgan Offline
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Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
Genocide and a flood. Same thing done on previous occasions.

The monster only has one solution to any problem: Blood.

II Kings 2:24
And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LØrd. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

What a lovely heart warming story. I wonder why they don't read this to the kiddies in Sunday school any more?
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#20780 - 04/24/07 12:05 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: terrytnewzealand]
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
Originally Posted By: terrytnewzealand
Now Blacky, I'd like to believe you but the evidence seems to indicate that many religious people believe their God is going to return some time soon and, like their parents used to do, clean up any mess they make. This means they feel no responsibility for the condition they leave the earth in. It doesn't matter. Good old God's gonna clean it all up.


Terry,

What evidence is that? Most Christians I know feel a keen responsibility to take ecological issues seriously. Is there evidence for the contrary? And is there any evidence that they care less than your average Joe?

Blacky.

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#20784 - 04/24/07 12:45 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Blacknad]
samwik Offline
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Registered: 10/10/06
Posts: 1164
Loc: Colorado
Blacknad
I have to support TNZ on this one (at least a little). In America (maybe uniquely) SOME fundy's feel the "Rapture" is all that matters; and they think the war in the middle east is a good thing (sign of impending rapture). Several Halloween's ago I was walking with my son's friend's mom and I was talking about global warming. I got the same answer (doesn't matter; the rapture....)!
I think most mainstream Christians feel the call of stewardship more strongly, but the attitude that "Good old God's gonna clean it all up," is out there to some extent.

~SA
P.S. ohhh, and thanks for expaining the 42 reference, Terry!
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#20787 - 04/24/07 02:16 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: samwik]
terrytnewzealand Offline
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Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 1031
Loc: Whangarei New Zealand
Yes Samwik. Someone in the US admin is actually on record as saying that. I forget who but someone here may recall and find a link. I'll do my best.

As soon as I'd logged off I remembered it was during Reagan admin. I'm none the wiser who it was but it narrows the search.


Edited by terrytnewzealand (04/24/07 03:23 AM)

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#20796 - 04/24/07 03:45 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: terrytnewzealand]
DA Morgan Offline
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Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
Blacknad wrote:
"Most Christians I know feel a keen responsibility to take ecological issues seriously."

My goodness you really do need to take a trip over here to the colonies.

The good Christians George W. Bush has appointed are willing to sell this planet to the highest bidder in exchange for quarterly profits.
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