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Some of us do know and hope to visit. Sure hope quantum has a list of the best restaurants. <g>


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Wolfman
I didn't mean nothing bad, just needed some time to figure it out. Didn't expect you'll reply on croatian smile
About Kresimir Cosic again, Croatians do have custom to react like that, especially considering athletes - they are particulary sensitive about them. When Janica and Ivica Kostelic came back from Winter Olympics few years ago, almost whole Croatia was on the Zagreb's town square...you should see that.


Well, you're all welcome anytime! I'll give you a tour.

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The following is not on topic, sorry. A lot of people round here came from Croatia many years ago. They're usually called Dallies, from Dalmatia. Do you know of a book (in English) about the history of the Adriatic region in pre-Roman times? I find it interesting that Minoans seem not to have exploited the region very much, if at all. Was there another people who kept them out of the region?

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Yes, we are a bit off the subject...
Well, Terry, it is familiar that there was a great culture in Neolithic Age on this areas but there is no evidence who were the first habitants. In fifth or sixt century BC, or even before, whole coast was populated, especially Hvar (between 3000 and 2000 BC) and Butmir (between 2000 and 1800 BC). They used stone, Bazalt and bones to make weapons and implements, sewing needles, pins and were familiar with use of sails and helms.
The Minoans were flourishing from approximately 2700 to 1450 BC so it is possible that they were kept away by these people. Also, it is familiar that this culture was connected with the culture from the Aegean Sea (it preceded Camares culture and was very similar to culture from east coasts of Mediterranean). Archeologists found a lot of articles such as cheramics of high quality wich they assumed were result of trade between east and west coast, as well those coasts with Sicilia and cultures from Aegean Sea. Maybe they had some kind of agreement with them in the welfare of the trade?
Someone was there, that's for sure, but first populace we have real evidence about were Ilirs (or Illyrians) who moved here in Bronze and Iron Age (around 2000 years BC).

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Thanks Quantum. I've suspected for some time your comment is true:

"The Minoans were flourishing from approximately 2700 to 1450 BC so it is possible that they were kept away by these people."

They must have been very effective sailors to achieve that but we don't hear anything about them in history books. Presumably they traded up into the Po valley and so to Western Europe. Perhaps their trade with the Aegean region was via the Danube and Black Sea? I read recently that the Illyrian language was related to the East Italian languages, which makes sense. There seems to have been a lot happening in the region we know nothing about.

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It's a facinating, over-looked part of the World. Right in the path between Italy and Turkey, between Moscow and Rome. Did you know that in Serbia they say "Da" for Yes and "Ciao" for Good-bye? Great looking women, too.

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No, I didn't Wolfman. There are many more Croatians than Serbians here. They used to call themselves Yugoslavs. About all I know is that surnames in the region nearly all end in ...ic. Pronounced here, probably correctly, as itch.

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Did I mention they have great looking women? Tall, thin, sexy?

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Yes Wolfman, you've mentioned it!

Serbia is separated from Croatia for more then ten years now, but for long time those countries were connected (as well some others) so the languages are extremly similar. Croatians, Bosnians, Serbians, they all use "da" for yes and often "ciao" for good-bye. It is also noticable that southern and western parts of Croatia use amazingly lot of Italian words (ponistra, manistra, lavandin, sentada, la porta, puntizel), some of western parts, like Istra, still speak in Italian, and northern and eastern parts use German and Hungarian words. Serbia and Bosnia difference a bit becouse mostly one language inteferes (per instance Turkism in Bosnia). Also, Serbians talk very similar but they write on Cirilica.

Terry you wrote: Do you know of a book (in English) about the history of the Adriatic region in pre-Roman times?

No, I'm not familiar with that book. But I found a lot of informations in "Povijest Dalmacije" ("The History Of Dalmatia") by Grga Novak - last Croatian pre-historian.
Also Minoans waren't really mentioned.
As I said, they culture flourished while there was culture on this areas. Or they were kept away, or there was some kind of agreement, but as you said:
"Presumably they traded up into the Po valley and so to Western Europe. Perhaps their trade with the Aegean region was via the Danube and Black Sea?" Not sure. There was a lot of tradeing paths, archeological findings confirm that. But most of the history is just guessing.
you wrote: "I read recently that the Illyrian language was related to the East Italian languages, which makes sense."
Illyrians were bunch of nations called that becouse of their similarities. Languages also developed along the way by "adopting" words from other languages. Presuming that they were tradeing with Italy, that is logical. As Wolfman wrote: "Right in the path between Italy and Turkey, between Moscow and Rome." Being in the middle explains the diversity inside the language.
We still notice those words - we use them every day.

Oh, and yes. Mostly all surnames end with -ic (pronounced as itch smile )
Croatian, Bosnian, Serbian, practically every surname from ex Yugoslavia, so you'll find Jovovic, Andrijasevic, Juric, Mitrovic, Papic, Vladislavic, Jelovic, Kostelic, Cosic,...
Only some surnames from Lika seeme to differ (like Zobenica or Tesla) and those derived from other countries (mostly Italy).

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Thanks Quantum. I'll try to track down the book "The History Of Dalmatia" by Grga Novak through our local library. With so many local people from the region it's likely to be available. Other common names here: Vadanovich, Marsich, Yovich, Kokich (local spellings).

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I'm not sure the book is available on English. Try to find it, or ask someone to translate it for you.

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Correction:
Ask someone to translate the parts you're interested in, of course, not the whole book (it isn't that long but it has two parts).

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