Science a GoGo's Home Page Forums General Discussion General Science Discussion Forum Stargate, yes or no?

Hi there,

Should we build a stargate, or forget it?

Cheers,
MM

P.S.: Please forget my last thread:

http://www.scienceagogo.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=5754&page=25



I deleted your picture and link as the link clearly pointed to a website that has zero science value and is promoting a political agenda complete with campaign advertising for a candidate for president.

If you want to post here, and we'd certainly like to have you as part of our community, you need to separate science from American politics.

Thank you.

I wish you hadn’t done that. You cannot deny any revolutionary technological innovation, say a realized stargate, would find profound relations with the politics. The clearest example, is the nuclear crisis of Iran, the country where I live in it.
Anyway, you’re the boss & you can do anything you want, but I intended to launch a discussion on the social ramifications of this technology, otherwise other visitors (not me) could send their comments on my newest paper, published by the American Institute of Physics (AIP):

http://proceedings.aip.org/vsearch/servl...1&chapter=0

My deletion had nothing to do with stargates or any other pseudoscience. It had to do with promoting a specific candidate for the Presidency of the United States.

Stick to science and you such as you'll be fine.

Personally I think this thread belongs under NOT QUITE as it is a long way from anything more serious than a movie plot.

I don’t know what you’re talking about; anyhow, forget it.



I wonder what would be your judgment, if someday, when – believe it or not - is not far at all, it’d get serious, indeed, terribly serious!

Good night,

P.S.: If you’d not delete again, I put this article herein:

http://www.starstreamresearch.com/mansouryar.htm

Mansouryar wrote:
"I wonder what would be your judgment, if someday, when ? believe it or not - is not far at all, it?d get serious, indeed, terribly serious."

When there is any science supporting it I will get interested. Right now it belongs with flux converters, dilithium crystals, UFOs, and invisible purple rhinoceroses.

Really, Dan, what do you have against invisible purple rhinoceroses? To put them in the same category as this is a serious insult to them.

Invisible Purple Rhino for President, 2008!!!!!

w

My humblest apology.

Go purple go.

Our campaign slogan ... "bigger than Barney and I don't dance around the issues."

Welcome, MM, it's nice to have somebody from your part of the World here.
As far as a Working Stargate goes, I can't see how we could deal with it. Somehow, someway, we'd foul things up and end up becoming slaves to the Goa'uld, or somebody. And while we might get along alright with the Tokra, and maybe the Nox, I doubt very much that Thor and the rest of the Asgard would look as fondly on us as they do in the TV Series.

Since we're into the subject with good humoured camaraderie, why not go on, DA's Purple Rhino having evidently found a mate and nature taken its course.

I very much hope that MM acquires the wherewithal and manages to get a stargate built. Actually, there should be one outside every pub so we wouldn't have to feel our way home. Anyway, how do you get the destination sorted out? I mean, there'd be no point in staggering out of the pub, into the blessed stargate, and finding yourself in the barmaid's bedroom, right? Oh? well OK, not a good example...

The stargate is preposterous by any known physics.

The first rule you would need to violate is that you would need to move things faster than the speed of light. We believe that to be impossible.

And not just simple things such as the polarization of a photon or the spin of an electron.

Rather you are talking about transporting complex systems containing massive amounts of chaos and near infinite amounts of quantum effects happening with virtual particles between closely space molecules.

It is laughable television shtick and will be until long after all of us are dust. MM needs to get back in touch with reality.

Oh, come on DA, where's your sense of humour?

"Rather you are talking about transporting complex systems containing massive amounts of chaos and near infinite amounts of quantum effects happening with virtual particles between closely space molecules."

You could try your president's brain, you should have no trouble with that <g>

I'll write a check to $1,000 USD to the first person that, having proven my President has a brain, can then transports it across the universe.

"I hold that truth to be self-evident" - I can't recall who said that. Now It's down to MM to do his bit, then it's $500 a piece.

(I'm no saint, I'll say anything for $500 dollars)

Ah! now you're getting into nanotechnology.

OK, so MM needs a Reality Check, fair enough. BUT. What if the Goa'uld were to mount an attack on Earth RIGHT NOW? Here we are without a single GRAM of Niquadria to protect ourselves. We'd look pretty damn silly, now wouldn't we, DA?

Well, Wolfman, I think it would be a way of getting rid of our excess population, if the Goa'uld were to come in. It would solve one problem at least.

Ever notice that no one ever sees the females?

Perhaps we'd like to meet them. ;-)

Ask Kip S. Thorne on the supporter science.



Bring up a reason if you can, or don&#8217;t make joke.



Why? More details please & tell your possible counter-strategies too.



Why Mr. Einstein? Tell a reason.



Why dear believer? Why?



I&#8217;m talking about reducing the distance by traversable wormholes, but maybe you don&#8217;t understand English.



Why so far? Don&#8217;t talk based on your feeling, speak logically.

http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/W/wormhole.html

"Interest in so-called traversable wormholes gathered pace following the publication of a 1987 paper by Michael Morris, Kip Thorne, and Uri Yertsever (MTY) at the California Institute of Technology. This paper stemmed from an inquiry to Thorne by Carl Sagan who was mulling over a way of conveying the heroine in his novel Contact across interstellar distances at trans-light speed. Thorne gave the problem to his Ph.D. students, Michael Morris and Uri Yertsever, who realized that such a journey might be possible if a wormhole could be held open long enough for a spacecraft (or any other object) to pass through. MTY concluded that to keep a wormhole open would require matter with a negative energy density and a large negative pressure ? larger in magnitude than the energy density. Such hypothetical matter is called exotic matter.
________

"We aren't saying you can't build a wormhole. But the ones you would like to build - the predictable ones where you can say Mr Spock will land in New York at 2pm on this day - those look like they will fall apart," Dr Hsu said.

- Stephen Hsu, University of Oregon, May 2005

Well, I'm afraid it's the problem that I mentioned earlier. When I step out of the pub and into the wormhole, I want it to take me home, not into the barmaid's bedroom (as it were).

And, of course, there's that little detail about getting hold of some of that hypothetical exotic matter.

MM, do you have any idea of the magnitude of the total energy required to perform a traversal of this hypothetical wormhole?

1. The Hsu's arguments are not general.
2. The equations are strict & I can take one from any desired pub to any desired hell.

****
MM, do you have any idea of the magnitude of the total energy required to perform a traversal of this hypothetical wormhole?
****

Yes, I've generalized Peter Kuhfittig's efforts; for example, see this abstract:

P. K. F. Kuhfittig, "Can a wormhole supported by only small amounts of exotic matter really be traversable?", Phys. Rev. D68, 067502 (2003).
http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0401048

Mansouryar I verified the facts. So far what you have published is scifi ... not science.

There is nothing but wild speculation, almost all discredited, with respect to the idea.

You are just now catching up with tachyons.

MM:
I sent you a Personal Message, did you not receive it?
As far as interacting poorly with Inter-stellar Races, I look at our history here at home, on Mother Earth. We can't even get along with ourselves, how do you think we'd interact with ET's?

As far as the viability of a working Stargate, hey, I've been to Las Vegas, anything is possible.

"I can take one from any desired pub to any desired hell."

"to any desired hell.". I realise that you're on the defensive, and are likely to be over-sensitive, so, my apologies if I offended your sensibilities. It's English humour, you know - tends to be a bit course at times.

MM, what is the proposed source of exotic matter? My understanding is that there is no evidence that it exists.

Up to now, my main paper has been referred by six authors in two papers:
http://www.slac.stanford.edu/spires/find/hep?c=GR-QC/0511086
Also, you say AIP publishes sci-fi?!!



I assume you were drunk while posting this? I really do not know how many times do I need to ask you talk based on evidences?



I have no idea about them.



Yes, & thanks for that Mike, but I do not know how should be my reply to it.



Look at these discussions to find a better insight on this matter:

http://forum.stargatetls.net/index.php?topic=1679.0
http://uplink.space.com/showflat.php?Cat...part=1&vc=1
http://www.dreamviews.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=39532
http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/for...=82901&st=0
http://www.advancedphysics.org/forum/showthread.php?p=31754

There have been experiments such as this:

G. Bressi, G. Carugno, R. Onofrio, G. Ruoso (2002), "Measurement of the Casimir force between parallel metallic surfaces", Phys. Rev. Lett. 88 (2002) 041804.
(http://www.arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0203002)

Also, proposed setups to testify, like this:

Davis, E.W., and Puthoff, H.E., "Experimental Concepts for Generating Negative Energy in the Laboratory," in these proceedings of Space Technology and Applications International Forum (STAIF-2007), edited by M. S. El-Genk, American Institute of Physics, Melville, New York, 2007.

So, MM, is the Casimir effect your proposed source of exotic matter?

Yes.

Then prepare for substantial disappointment because, it would seem, you do not understand what the Casimir force is.

Our best understanding of it puts it, in terms of what you are considering, to be as useful as feathers on a fish.

Professor DA Morgan,

I humbly beg you please, please explain me what the Casimir force is.

Your idiot student,
MM

Trying to gain useful work from the Casimir force is equivalent to trying to scoop water out of the Pacific Ocean and leave a hole.

Start here though I don't go to Wikipedia for serious science.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density

I can find a lot of good stuff in the library at the U but try as I might using google I can't find a single article, except those from the nut brigade, claiming you can extract energy from the zero point and end up with negative energy.

Not a single peer reviewed publication seems to take your notion seriously.

Respected Prof. DA Morgan,

Thank you so much for your great favor in posting the required information. Please take a look at this paper:

http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0611133

It has been written by five physicists and has been accepted to be published in Gen. Rel. Grav. 39 (2007) 145-151. You can find my name in the References division of the mentioned paper. Also, my newest paper was presented in STAIF-2007. I think those documents can be considered peer review enough, therefore I humbly request you to post the list of your papers (& probably books) to continue the discussion. Please make me aware of your official scientific researches, accepted by the mainstream physics community.

Sincerely yours,
MM

P.S.: Furthermore, the technical critics you brought up on my 7-years efforts, was extremely useful. I mean this:



Please let me confess that the involved mathematics you applied, is indeed too complicated to my understanding.

MM ... do you know what arxiv.org is?

Do you know what is required to publish there?

I could publish just about anything there I want. So could you as we've seen.

MM, no need to shout, OK?

MM isn't interested in science. He is a advocate. And, as such, I will ignore him from here on unless he can demonstrate some level of critical thinking and scientific skepticism.

I've read the paper MM. I am wholly unimpressed. As is my daughter. As is everyone here I asked about it.

This conversation is over.

I do not shout, I only want to know what is the position of the man who says I am wrong. The one who says I am not interested in science, must have a high scientific background. I just asked him to show me one evidence, very politely.

You shouted
You were not polite
I will no longer play your game.
YOYO

While the last thing I want to do is resurrect this... wretched excuse for a debate... I feel compelled to comment on what I saw here.

What happened in this thankfully dead forum thread was absolutely shameful.

This is a science forum. If you think the theory a man posted is the crackpot ramblings of an opiate-addicted science fiction fanatic, then either meet his charge with your own thoughts, work and research or ignore him.

What is pathetic, the worst possible option, is to attack the person, presume his politics, ignore utterly what he's trying to say rather than simply discrediting it rationally.
Beyond that, not even making an attempt to discredit what he's saying!
Then when he finally gets tired of being personally belittled and insulted and gives in to human weakness, lowering himself to match the level of those with whom he was trying to speak, he is spun to be the cause. He is declared the one who went too far, and is utterly shut out.

Simply shameful. Shameful and very childish.

Either debate it, or ignore it. Those are the options of a rational, scientific adult. Everything else is flotsam.

You are right Andy, I met no reason in this forum. I wish we could have had a pleasant dialog like this:

Futuristic ideas from the "Iranian Einstein"

I gave serious consideration to deleting your post but after reading it the humor was so good I just had to let it stand.

"Jason said the creation of atomic modules could be considered the biggest revolution of the 21st century and described the innovation by Kamali-Sarvestani as the work of a genius."

ROFLOL!
ROFLOL!
ROFLOL!

In that discussion, it was shown the above news was a lie.
You funny Moggy, I laughed at that story, just like you, even more. Talk on my theory if you dare!

Good night!!!!

No more comment? Feel free to send any comment, of course not like Moggy who ruined a healthy discussion.

I hope the Chin. J. phys. is a peer-reviewed journal!
See the Reference [9] of this paper:

Gravitational lensing by stable C-field wormhole