Science a GoGo's Home Page Forums General Discussion General Science Discussion Forum Basic organisms are smarter than we thought

Quantum. I think humans have always wasted resources when the resources seem limitless. For example scientists have examined sites where the large flightless birds called moa were butchered in early Polynesian days. They found the hunters ate only the drumsticks. Mind you, what drumsticks. It's only once a resources becomes scarce that humans are forced to become more in harmony with their environment. However Jared Diamond ("Collapse") recounts a few regions on earth where humans didn't take this step. They became extinct in those regions.

Sorry to drift off topic.

terry - yes. i'm afraid you're right. apsolutely.

terry: I think humans have always wasted resources when the resources seem limitless.

still, when will they learn that resources are never limitless...

Open question:

Do you think that such 'smart' behaviour of simple organisms goes beyond what could written into 1KB of computer program and run on a Sinclair ZX80 of the early 1980s.

Yes.

Oh. OK.

"Immediately after an amoeba turned right, it was twice as likely to turn left as right again, and vice versa"

Then you know more about it than you're letting on by that snippet.

come on guys, don't fight now...

My point, to expand, was that the amoeba makes decisions based upon input from numerous sensors. Some detect light, some heat, some the chemical composition of the media, some the texture of the surface.

On a petri dish in a lab the decision may appear Boolean. But in the real world it is not. The amoeba is not going to turn toward the sulfuric acid just becomes some mindless program says "go left."

Quantum, have no fear. A lot of folks here are forum buddies. It's not about being 'right'. DA enjoys an argument as much as I do, but it's unusual for him settle for a one syllable reply. He'll be back...<g>

(What did I tell you, quantum? He even beat me to the post)

DA
'The amoeba is not going to turn toward the sulfuric acid just becomes some mindless program says "go left."'

No, I dare to say it wouldn't. Any single cell contains a great deal of information and instructions, and the amoeba certainly employs some interesting physiological responses to its environment. So one should hardly be surprised to discover a very minor subroutine that has a survival advantage - a subroutine which, although working within the greater program, hardly puts it in the AI category.

In truth ... the click was accidental.

I am rarely a person of few words.

No offense intended.

None taken. You know me better than that.

I challenge you to show me the waste in our cattle industry.

We use enough of the animal to put our ancestors to shame.

Think of all the millions of cows slaughtered every month. Where is the fifty-mile high pile of unusable hooves? 50 mile pile? Not really - our entire planet would be knee deep in remains if we didn't use them all. Or, we could burn it all and cause "cattle winter".

It's an unsavory topic, but what doesn't get used for meat goes to a rendering plant where just about every molecule of it is turned into something that somebody can use. And there's more of it around you than you imagine.

You know that nice sheen that you have on the paint on your glossy kitchen walls? That comes from cattle by-product. It's in cosmetics. It gives the street you drive on that slightly reflective sheen. It's everywhere. Everywhere. Anybody who worships cows (lots of people) would be horrified if they really knew just how prolific we are in spreading cow around.

And it's not just cows - any animal can be rendered at a rendering plant. They put the tissues through all kinds of processes. THe first processes are pretty normal-seeming and turn it into dog food or whatever. But then they get into stuff like treating it with lye and acids to turn it into various chemical products.

The very little that is left is burned. That part, you could say, is wasted. But it is a portion that shrinks every year as more ways are discovered to use what's left.

The meat industry is guilty of a lot of things, cruelty to animals certain being one of them, but it ain't guilty of waste. Cattle might as well be made of gold for all the money it brings in, and the last thing the meat industry will do is throw away money.

w

Well said Wayne. Agree completely.

i agree with that, apsolutely.
but as i wrote: "so what do they do? lot of unethical things"
i find that disgusting.

I do too. I'm not interested in eating growth hormones and antibiotics so some guy can have a more profitable farm.

Then, on the other hand, I am rather fond of not starving to death. Compromises ... compromises.

You do have the point there.
Also, you can understand my situation: I live in a country that still has small farms - most of my generation has grandparents in the villages and on the islands who grow vegetables that hasn't been scattered with pesticides. Some of them keep goats, chikens, make their own cheese and almost everyone out town has rain-water.
My grandmother, per example, provides me with some of vegetables grew in those conditions.
Truth, I don't refuse meat only becouse it's filled with hormones and antibiotics - as I already wrote, it makes my conscience calmer. I love animals. Stupid reason? Probably. But I'm happy with my decision.

One of the most wonderful things I find traveling out of the US is the difference in the food.

Not how it is prepared.

But rather that it has taste.

US food is factory food and while always the right size, the right color, and the right shape, is lacking in flavor.

Every time I visit the UK, for example, I am reminded that food should have flavor. I suspect part of America's obesity problem is trying to make up for those non-superficial constituents of what used to be known as food.

You've hit upon the reason why I try every year to grow my own tomatoes. The ones in the store are hard and lacking in flavor. You just can't beat a home grown tomato, ripened on the vine.

A friend of mine grows his own salsa. Every single ingredient comes from his own garden. It is, without reservation, the best salsa I have ever tasted.

And yes, UK food is really great these days. There was a time, not long ago, that it was bland and terrible. What changed? It seems odd for a whole country to suddenly change the taste of it's food.

w

It has changed so rapidly due to multiculturalism and the fact that it was so bland.

We have recently had an influx of Poles and there are now supermarket shelves devoted to their cuisine. It will eventually be incorporated into our standard menu when our palette adjusts slightly.

We still love our 'pig's blood and fat' sausages though (black pudding).

Blacknad.

And I worry about drifting off topic. Or are we talking about smart lettuces here?