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#43032 - 04/03/12 06:04 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Turner]
Bill S. Offline
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Registered: 08/20/10
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Quote:
Sanity is "authoritarian" in the same sense, because reality is "authoritarian."


Our perception of reality is "authoritarian", and our concept of sanity is based on that perception. Reality is an unknown and wisdom is a matter of interpretation.

A mish-mash of opinions? Of course it is, but it's the sort of thing that, if said with sufficient conviction, someone will believe.
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There never was nothing.

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#43033 - 04/03/12 07:13 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Turner]
TheFallibleFiend Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
Posts: 1940
Loc: http://thefalliblefiend.blogsp...
Humans don't have absolute knowledge, which does not mean they have no knowledge at all. Imperfect knowledge does not mean no knowledge. And lack of knowledge is often preferable to anti-knowledge.

Humans have some, albeit imperfect, knowledge of reality. Some things are unknown and some of those things unknowable, but some things are known to be true and others false. Again "known" does not mean imply absolute knowledge, but "correspondence to the facts."

Not all knowledge reduces to mere opinion.

TM adherents (to include MMY) have indicated in the past that yogic flying included corporeal levitation (not just "spiritual" levitation but physical levitation as the video reveals).

Those people (including MMY) are full of crap.

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#43039 - 04/04/12 03:36 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Turner]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Let me know if you can get short story:

LIFE, GAMES, BASEBALL, G~0~D and BIG-innings

http://brainmeta.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=23863&hl=


Edited by Revlgking (04/04/12 03:38 AM)
_________________________
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#43051 - 04/05/12 01:09 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Revlgking]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Registered: 06/19/08
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Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#43053 - 04/05/12 02:36 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Turner]
TheFallibleFiend Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
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Loc: http://thefalliblefiend.blogsp...
My God! It's a Murkle! I'm finally convinced!

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#43055 - 04/05/12 05:04 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Turner]
Ellis Offline
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Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
I remember that party trick from many years ago! It isn't levitation and the person being lifted has to keep still. Also it is just straight up and down, no one is floating effortlessly here! I have no idea how it works but it has nothing to do with chakras!

Ah the good old days!!

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#43059 - 04/05/12 02:04 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Turner]
TheFallibleFiend Offline
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Registered: 06/08/05
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Acolytes of a modern sect of one of the world's most ancient religions have rediscovered a parlor trick frat-boys play for the plebes.

I'm not sure in what sense these constitute "experiments."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rEgXTBgmv1E

Here's one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZ9InzTLNjs
Another: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e59lwhFzdvQ

Here's another one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33BVZvsI6t8
(hands held wrong this time!)

Chi, Qi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yx2RZoi7hY

Large part of the trick:
http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2008/05/27/2257305.htm

Real yogic flying!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHwhGUo90jw


Edited by TheFallibleFiend (04/05/12 02:12 PM)

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#43060 - 04/05/12 02:41 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: TheFallibleFiend]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1249
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Like I said:
A Mental and Physical exercise.

http://www.ctmu.net/
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#43061 - 04/05/12 03:00 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Turner]
TheFallibleFiend Offline
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I accept that yoga (including yogic flying) is a mental and physical exercise. I currently DO yoga.

I tried it some years back and quit after only 2 or 3 sessions, because it hurt in a bad way for days afterward.

I tried it again 3 or 4 months ago and have not stopped, because this teacher modifies the movements for us old guys (and also for the more advanced students).

It has helped me. I'm miserable nearly every second of the thing (except the last 5 minutes which are a deep relax). In addition to the obvious stretching, it requires a lot more strength and balance than I had anticipated. But I always feel really good for the next several days. Also, I've had a number of injuries that have improved - including a nagging rotator cuff that I tore about 10 years ago - that I had assumed I would always feel. I just got accustomed to feeling the pain. I still feel the pain - when I do certain yoga postures or lift certain weights - but otherwise, I'm actually very often able to forget I was once injured.

It has also helped me with a back injury I got last year. Some of the postures are identical to physical therapy; others not.

There is a qualified sense in which I am willing to recommend yoga. Even if the help has only been in my mind - it is still help.

I read somewhere that the Pope had come out against yoga and I remember thinking that was a serious mistake. One can acknowledge the benefits without acknowledging the mumbo-jumbo.
Again, even if the benefits are only in our minds, they are still benefits.

I think yoga has potential to help a lot of people, though I am not married to it. It helped me more than my previous stretching routine had done. Maybe one could use non-yoga as a base for stretching / balance and then augment with particularly good yoga. Or maybe one could start with a yoga base and augment. Or maybe either way is sufficient.

To the extent that yogic flying is a mental / physical exercise that obviously makes the adherents happy (and is probably very healthy), I'm all for it - sincerely, unreservedly, 100% happy for them. But some TM advocates (including the Maharishi himself) have claimed that this exercise results in actual levitation. THAT is 100% bullcrap.

In the same way, for any religious person, say, for example (and not to pick on him), but Rev. The fact that nearly everything he writes sounds like gibberish doesn't mean I'm not happy for him. If his religion (or quasi-religion or non-religion or whatever he calls it) makes him happy, I AM HAPPY FOR HIM.

And I think science can and some scientists ARE trying to figure out what in religion is useful - even if every fact of every religion is wrong, it could still be useful. Understanding what the facts are, picking them out, testing them, is something science is good at. Part of that requires them to figure out what religion is and how it works in the brain and in society - all within the scope of science.



Edited by TheFallibleFiend (04/05/12 03:04 PM)

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#43072 - 04/06/12 04:55 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: TheFallibleFiend]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
TFF, your recent comments are very interesting. They raise so many issues and posE so many important questions. Also, note how I parse them.

For example, you now say
Originally Posted By: TheFallibleFiend
I accept that yoga (including yogic flying) is a mental and physical exercise. I currently DO yoga...
So you do change your mind, eh? Good for you.
================================
WHERE I LEARNED TO DO YOGA--from my daughter 56, April 1. She and her husband, Wayne Adams, both artists, built this home starting in 1992. They named the cove FREEDOM.
http://browningpass.com/freedom-cove-february-2012/
THAT WAS IN 2005--I was 75
http://www.mkprojects.com/pf_TibetanRites.htm
=====================

As well as Yoga, may I suggest that, if you are willing to keep an open-mind, it is also possible you may eventually find that, while religion, like all human endeavours, can be evil as well as good, it is not all what you call "gibberish"-- senseless talk.
Quote:
...In the same way, for any religious person, say, for example (and not to pick on him), but the Rev. The fact that nearly everything he writes sounds like gibberish [senseless talk?] doesn't mean I'm not happy for him.[Well! Thanks for your patronage.] Then on you go with YOUR gibberish[quote]If his religion (or quasi-religion or non-religion or whatever he calls it) makes him happy, I AM HAPPY FOR HIM.
You ARE? Well now, isn't that nice of you smile? Would you like to have a go at my other cheek? laugh
Are you saying that all the great moral, ethical and loving men and women of history--would you like a list?--spoke nothing but "crap and gibberish."
Quote:
And I think science can and some scientists ARE trying to figure out what, in religion, is useful - even if every fact of every religion is wrong, it could still be useful.
Bully for them! You mean scientists like http://listverse.com/2007/11/18/top-10-evil-scientists/ smile

But seriously, I prefer to trust
http://clericalwhispers.blogspot.ca/2011/07/formation-of-irish-chapter-of-society.html
EVOLUTION and CLERGY
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clergy_Letter_Project

Clergy who helped influence Darwin (he who studied theology at Cambridge, not Botany and the like.)
http://creation.com/clergy-mentor-darwin

RELIGIOUS SCIENTISTS
http://www.adherents.com/people/100_scientists.html#Christian

100 RELIGIOUS & SECULAR SCIENTISTS
http://www.adherents.com/people/100_scientists.html
===============================
You say,"Understanding what the facts are, picking them out, testing them, is something science is good at." TFF

BUT WE ALSO NEED TO BE AWARE! AND LOOK AT THE OTHER SIDE OF THE COIN.
Like un-bridled capitalism, it is also possible to have un-bridled science--science with NO moral, ethical and loving roots will lead us to develop weapons of mass destruction and become M.A.D--mutually assured destruction.
====
We end with a positive and a spiritually-based thought
Quote:
And I think science can and some scientists ARE trying to figure out what in religion is useful - even if every fact of every religion is wrong, it could still be useful.
Understanding what the facts are, picking them out, testing them, is something science is good at.
Part of that requires them to figure out what religion is and how it works in the brain and in society - all within the scope of science.
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#43074 - 04/06/12 04:22 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Turner]
Bill S. Offline
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Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 3570
Loc: Essex, UK
People who hold firm beliefs, or sets of ideas, religious, scientific, social or otherwise, do tend to regard anything outside that particular frame of reference as being "all my eye and Betty Martin". Of course, this is unfortunate, but it is quite understandable when you consider how frightening it can be to question beliefs that might have underpinned your whole life. Those of us who have asked and answered, or are still answering, those questions, and can enjoy peace of mind, should try not to be too critical of those who may still be working on it, or may not (yet) have mustered the courage.
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There never was nothing.

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#43075 - 04/06/12 04:49 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Turner]
Bill S. Offline
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Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 3570
Loc: Essex, UK
Looking at my previous post I realised that I could be suspected of saying I thought all those who hold firm beliefs etc should get rid of them. Far from it. All I am saying is that those who can look honestly at such beliefs and change where they feel they should/can are fortunate, and should neither squander the opportunity, nor condemn those who are, perhaps, less fortunate.
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There never was nothing.

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#43078 - 04/06/12 08:47 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Turner]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
WHAT AN ENJOYABLE DIALOGUE IS HAPPENING HERE
Bill S., let me address all readers, especially newcomers, students, octogenarians like me--you name it--for a moment:
Hey, anyone: Feel free to click on the link to the Not-Quite-Science section of the Forum

http://www.scienceagogo.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=2&page=1

and you will find that the number of hits on this thread is now over 4,800,000 hits. Moderators, is this some kind of a record?

How come more and more of you are not at least dropping in just to say, hello? And, surely you must have a question, or two! Do fear that one of us--or all of us--old fogies--are there young fogies?--will clobber you with an ad hominem or two?

Have no fear! at least not from us. "Experts" though we may be--we hope--in our own fields, we are "humble" enough to give anyone the right to be wrong. Right Bill S? laugh

But seriously, don't miss out. Practicing the art of having a good dialogue can be a very joy-filled experience. At least tell us why you keep reading in the SAGGO forum.

Bill, I have an idea: Maybe we would get some "particip-action" if we threatened to go on strike for higher pay, eh? smile
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#43085 - 04/07/12 01:05 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Turner]
Bill S. Offline
Megastar

Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 3570
Loc: Essex, UK
Originally Posted By: Rev
Bill S., let me address all readers,


I could stop you???
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There never was nothing.

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#43089 - 04/07/12 01:55 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Turner]
Ellis Offline
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Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
Oh come on Bill! We miss him when he isn't there!

(For TT"s benefit----"I miss him when" etc etc.)

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#43113 - 04/07/12 02:31 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Ellis]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1249
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
Aww...Isn't that spatial....
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#43114 - 04/07/12 07:14 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Turner]
Bill S. Offline
Megastar

Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 3570
Loc: Essex, UK
Quote:
Bill, I have an idea: Maybe we would get some "particip-action" if we threatened to go on strike for higher pay, eh?


Are you paid by the word?
Anyway, you can't go on strike; Ellis would miss you, even if TT didn't. smile
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There never was nothing.

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#43118 - 04/07/12 09:14 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Turner]
Ellis Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
All of us have to admit that the millions of hits Rev has totalled is amazing. Though personally I think that his trick of jollying things along with an especially verbose and annoying post when things lull down a bit is more than partially responsible. But that's the art of it I guess!

I no longer argue (or discuss) the point like I used to. I found I could not keep saying the same thing over and over. Well I could SAY them but I am a very slow and bad typist having never learned to do it properly and so I can't be bothered endlessly repeating myself very, very slowly!

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#43122 - 04/08/12 04:28 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Ellis]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Originally Posted By: Ellis
...Though personally I think that his trick of jollying things along with an especially verbose and annoying post when things lull down a bit is more than partially responsible. But that's the art of it I guess ...
Go ahead, Ellis, and take your time...: Tell us what annoy you ...people would enjoy reading about the kind of things I say that annoys you, or not just you. crazy idea, eh?


Edited by Revlgking (04/08/12 04:29 AM)
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#43123 - 04/08/12 05:01 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, including, [Re: Turner]
Ellis Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
Exactly that!

For example-
Annoyingly asking people to justify silly 'points of order' ------ and guess what?--- we are now at hit number 3,824,010!

And a reply will turn the speedo over again. As I said, there is an art in nurturing a topic and giving it the kiss of life now and then, and you, Rev, are very good at it. However it can become annoying.

Also, while I am being critical, the multiple type face names of GOD thing is annoying too!

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