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#27988 - 10/09/08 06:18 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Ellis Offline
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Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
Well, well well!!! We do have something in common Rev!! I too have a daughter called Catherine!! She is a scientist.

The floating house thing sounds wonderful. I love seeing our grown children and I am constantly surprised they all survived their childhood and are nice people now! Parenting is terrifying.

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#27989 - 10/09/08 06:32 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Ellis]
Tutor Turtle Offline
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Registered: 06/19/08
Posts: 1249
Loc: Everywhere and nowhere
Originally Posted By: Ellis
It is possible to discuss brain surgery without a great understanding of the nature of the brain. Performing surgery may need high expertise but it is possible for a lay person to understand what is involved. We all have some understanding of living- I mean here, as in the state of being alive, though we would all have different ways to express our experiences of life. None are right, correct or the only answer. Similarly I feel that your conclusion regarding the ultimate reality is merely one opinion. You state:

Yes we can discuss anything without any degree of accuracy and we often do, compiling our collective beliefs into some form of accepted philosophy, but then if it is possible to actually know something for real, at what point does one come to the conclusion that knowledge is far more than the inexperienced opinion of personality?
Obviously the Earth didn't stop spinning as a sphere while man had the opinion that the Sun rotated around the flat earth.
Originally Posted By: Ellis
Quote:

"For anyone who has invested years into belief and, making assumptions of God without the actual experience of God, it can be a great blow to the ego to discover everything you believe in is built on shaky ground."

And for certain that could be so. However it is possible that another person making the same journey may have come to a different conclusion, as a person's experience of god is different for each one, and some belief may be rock-solid but flawed.

The only way you could be certain is to find something that everyone experiences differently but still remains the same.
God is like that. The personality experiences it with the senses but when the heart engages it beyond the senses everyone who has the different sensory experience has the same understanding of it and knows it to be the same.
Until then the ego tries to absorb and solidify what the senses have observed.
Then in that sense of understanding it becomes obvious when the brain surgeon talks to the layman and easily discovers the layman has no surgical experience and no expertise on the subject of brain surgery.
Originally Posted By: Ellis

Whilst the certainty that is shown by those who believe that they have achieved ultimate reality, or truth or revelation is enviable, it may in fact be no more verifiable than disbelief, and therefore have no more validity in argument (no matter how irritating the antagonist). After all who is to define the "shaky ground"?

Only one who knows the difference in truth and illusion.


Actually, I can put it another way. Truth and illusion separate leaving what is real for one who can see past the illusions of personal opinion founded on conclusions that are sense oriented to belief rather than universal mind. Universal mind becomes the mind of personality when one is in the NOW.
Ego has left the building... whistle
_________________________
I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!





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#27991 - 10/09/08 03:11 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Tutor Turtle]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
See the other thread for a summary of Tolle's concepts and ideas.

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#28381 - 11/17/08 11:31 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
NOW IS YOUR OPPORTUNITY
=======================
Readers and posters: Way back, I started this thread using my wife's surname and the name of our only son, Turner.

Thanks to all of you who have taken the time to tune in to this thread and to the others spin-off threads of it.

If you just enjoy being part of the forum, generally speaking, good for you, just enjoy.

However, if, on the other hand, you would like to get more personally involved, feel free to do so.

You can do this by posting, or you can send anyone of those of us, more directly involved, a personal message. We are on the way to getting 1,000,000 clicks. Amazing!!!!

_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#28971 - 12/30/08 05:51 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Now over 696,000! What is it about this thread title that keeps on attracting readers? When will we get to 1,000,000? Who among you have read Eckhart Tolle's books?

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#29313 - 01/31/09 03:16 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Well! Now over 750,000 clicks on this thread. I started it using the last name of my wife and my son's name, Turner.
Meanwhile you may want to check out what is happening at:
http://www.wondercafe.ca/discussion/heal...ealth-begin-ego
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#29316 - 01/31/09 05:44 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
redewenur Offline
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Registered: 02/14/07
Posts: 1840
I congratulate you, Rev. May your best dreams come true.
_________________________
"Time is what prevents everything from happening at once" - John Wheeler

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#29320 - 01/31/09 10:33 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: redewenur]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
Originally Posted By: redewenur
I congratulate you, Rev. May your best dreams come true.
Thank you, Rede. Your comment poses an interesting question: What do we really mean when we say:
1. You and I are daydreaming!
2. I had a dream.
3. I have a dream ...
4. Is there such a thing as an "impossible dream"?

Have you heard about the work of the Oxford Professor of mathematics, John Lennox, who accepts that God is?
http://www.a-strange-beginning.com/yomna/rrt_20090114.mp3
IMO, he is really talking about GOD, or as in my signature.
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#29322 - 01/31/09 11:20 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Ellis Offline
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Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
Well done Rev-- It is an amazing total. But why don't more of those 750,000 post their views here? It would be good to read them.

We need our dreams, even day- dreams - without them, and the sleep that sometimes nourishes them we would go mad!

Of course we can have impossible dreams, it's part of being human. It's silly to have too many though, there's little that is attractive in unbridled ambition!

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#29327 - 02/01/09 03:00 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Ellis]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
I can imagine that a lot of readers (lurkers) are quite conservative, or even fundamentalist, in their thinking. After reading some of the stuff here, especially what I write, they say: "Whoops! Wrong church!!!" laugh


Edited by Revlgking (02/01/09 08:43 PM)
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#29339 - 02/03/09 02:01 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Anonymous
Unregistered


a very interesting site for scientific facts mentioned in Quran
http://www.scribd.com/doc/4614088/Allahs-Miracles-in-the-Quran-

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#29342 - 02/03/09 06:07 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Anonymous]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
WARNING!!!
Anon: I tried to open this Quran site. I can't; It shuts my 'puter programs down. Fortunately I have a quick restore function.

Anyone else have this problem?
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#29343 - 02/03/09 06:14 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I can open it and there is no problem. The guy is advertising his philosophy in the same manner as you do Rev. Posting the same info on different threads to get his point across.

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#29349 - 02/03/09 11:27 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Anonymous]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
BTW, Anon, I have a personal interest in Islam. Our only daughter-in-law, and the mother of our only three grand children--two girls and a boy (wonderful individuals)--is a beautiful Persian woman. She was born in Tehran, and practices Sufism. My son, Turner, met her when he was a student at York University, here in Toronto. At the time, she was studying maths, he was studying music.

BTW 2, I have a hard-cover copy of the classic edition of the Quran, with the usual and formal translation.

I also have a translation, which has notes and comments--very helpful. These large volumes were given to me, years ago, as my payment for speaking at a Mosque, here in Toronto.
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#29350 - 02/04/09 07:22 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
BTW, Anon, I have a personal interest in Islam. Our only daughter-in-law, and the mother of our only three grand children--two girls and a boy (wonderful individuals)--is a beautiful Persian woman. She was born in Tehran, and practices Sufism. My son, Turner, met her when he was a student at York University, here in Toronto. At the time, she was studying maths, he was studying music.
Having a relationship with someone who has been brought up in Sufism doesn't translate into a personal interest in Islam.

Quote:
BTW 2, I have a hard-cover copy of the classic edition of the Quran, with the usual and formal translation.

Millions of people have a copy of the Bible and yet it doesn't make them Christians.

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#29351 - 02/04/09 10:04 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Anonymous]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Millions of people have a copy of the Bible and yet it doesn't make them Christians.

Nor does it make them knowlegeable about Christianity.

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#29357 - 02/05/09 03:30 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Anonymous]
Ellis Offline
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Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
'Nor does it make them knowlegeable about Christianity.'

It would if they read it- they may not end up as a believer, but they would be able to make an informed choice. The New Testament of the Bible is, like the Koran and the Torah, the written teachings of the founder of those 3 faiths. The rest is interpretive dogma.


Edited by Ellis (02/05/09 03:31 AM)
Edit Reason: can't spell for toffee!

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#29362 - 02/05/09 05:31 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Ellis]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
It would if they read it- they may not end up as a believer, but they would be able to make an informed choice. The New Testament of the Bible is, like the Koran and the Torah, the written teachings of the founder of those 3 faiths. The rest is interpretive dogma.

That is a bit altruistic to think that anyone who reads the bible is capable of comprehending it. I don't think there is total ageement in who or what the source of each Teaching is, regardless of whether they think it originated with the icononic religious savant or spiritual master.

I don't believe our own educational systems rely on the ability of interpretation as a form of education. There aren't many classes that render knowledge to the opinions and personal interpretations of book reading without the guidance and knowledge that comes from the presence of a Teacher in the classroom.

It would be a bit presumptuous don't you think, to assume that a few of the comments written in a book, taken from some of the conversations that took place between the Teacher and his disciples could replace the years of conversation and instruction between the teacher and his students?

Not only does it seem a bit of a stretch when you look at it that way, but the translations that were taken from the original languages and then writen by those who were not part and parcel to the original instruction would seem suspect to the opinions and notions of their own dogma and belief after reading the original writings and filtering it through their own beliefs.
As it was the translations were scrutinized by many, so there would be not one interpretation idealized by one personality but One translation idealized by consensus of interpretation. A democratic quorum.
Even they, did not trust the translations to the individual perception.
It also would be difficult to assume that anyone reading it would automatically grasp its content by representation of its many interpretations and the religious separation that exists between Church and State, Church and Church, Believers and non-believers and the history of bloody violence that came from its individual and democratic interpretations.

There are today, those who are still waiting as the people did for Jesus 2000 years ago, for his return to do what he did not do then. Remove from the people all evils and discomforts of their own making.

I'd say that doesn't bode well for individual interpretation and informed decision making when it comes to the nature of the Teaching that inspired the binding of a few quotes and historical references to the Teacher.

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#29364 - 02/05/09 10:49 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Anonymous]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
It would if they read it- they may not end up as a believer, but they would be able to make an informed choice.

Examples of an informed choice.
Effects of Tobacco Smoke are made public and the public continues to smoke.
The effects of certain foods and eating habits are described as detrimental to health and the public that is in large aware of these facts, continue to maintain habits that are unhealthy and eat foods that are not healthy.
People are starving all over the world and the world continues to be amazed they continue to starve, when the world makes the choice to do nothing to change.
Bush invades Iraq after being informed by the intelligence community of the most powerful nation in the world that there are weapons of mass destruction. But they fail to find any.


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#29365 - 02/06/09 04:11 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Anonymous]
Ellis Offline
Megastar

Registered: 01/08/07
Posts: 1490
Loc: Australia
An informed choice is not always a choice with which we, as individuals, would personally agree, and I maintain that a person who had read the bible would have more idea what it was about than someone who had never read it. So I stiil suggest that a person who had a bible would have the opportunity to know more about christianity than someone who did not.

It stands to reason really- and you were having a go at Rev! Find something else to tease him about!

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