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#37496 - 02/22/11 07:59 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
kallog Offline
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Originally Posted By: Revlgking

And I intuit that GOD, as the GOOD, does things, in and through us, not to and for us.

What's the connection between 'good' and 'GOD'? It still looks like just common sense to me.

You think that GOD does things, through people's actions, but isn't concerned with their effect on people? Isn't that exactly what conventional nature does? Where's the distinction?

Quote:

I am looking for what we all have in common and sounds plausible, even when sometimes it looks fantastic, even impossible.

That's what nature is.


Quote:

BTW, did you tell us: What is your expertise?

I don't remember, but there's no need to make this personal. Your idea should stand on its own. Same goes for comments about what the pope said. I'm sure your idea isn't dependent on the pope's words, so mentioning them only detracts from understanding.


I suppose I should make my concern really clear:

"Please itemize the differences between your concept of GOD and the usual concept of nature."

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#37510 - 02/23/11 04:45 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: kallog]
Revlgking Offline
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Kallog, if you want to say GOD and Nature--even Common Sense--are one and the same, go ahead. The French say, Dieu. "A rose by any other name is still a rose."
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#37515 - 02/23/11 11:26 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Kallog, if you want to say GOD and Nature--even Common Sense--are all one and the same, go ahead. The French say, Dieu. "A rose by any other name is still a rose."
To the above I add: I am sure I do not need to remind people who choose to make "mother nature" (MN) their goddess: MN can be a very cruel mother.

Now, the highest GOOD--that is, G0d, the power (from within each of us) to will that which is good (agape-love)--is something else!

Why would any intelligent human being ever put Nature ahead of the highest GOOD--the power from within, which enables us help wolves stop wanting to eat us and become beautiful companions? Yes, GOD does have value!
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#37518 - 02/24/11 04:02 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Ellis Offline
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Rev wrote:-
"-the power from within, which enables us help wolves stop wanting to eat us and become beautiful companions? "

Where does this fact come from, Rev? Please explain!

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#37520 - 02/24/11 07:29 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
kallog Offline
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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
sure I do not need to remind people who choose to make "mother nature" (MN) their goddess: MN can be a very cruel mother.

Your GOD is cruel?

Quote:

Now, the highest GOOD--that is, G0d, the power (from within each of us) to will that which is good (agape-love)--is something else!

The power of humans to imagine something good? You're saying that's not part of what GOD is? I want to know what is part of what GOD is. Is it really nothing more or less than nature? I don't understand why you've made a whole concept out of it when you could have just used what we already have, which it seems is exactly the same.

Willing things to happen is just nature. We have that ability, sometimes it works. Cats and dogs have that ability too - when they want something they go and get it. What's it got to do with GOD?


Edited by kallog (02/24/11 07:31 AM)

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#37544 - 02/25/11 04:08 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Ellis]
Revlgking Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ellis
Rev wrote:-
"-the power from within, which enables us help wolves stop wanting to eat us and become beautiful companions?"

Where does this fact come from, Rev? Please explain


What "fact" do you have in mind? Wolves as pets?

BE CAREFUL, BUT WOLVES CAN BE TRAINED AS PETS.
10,000 years ago they were the progenitors of all dogs, today.
==============================================
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolves_as_pets_and_working_animals
=======================================
http://www.howtodothings.com/pets-animals/how-to-assess-wolves-as-pets
==============
BTW, you have no doubt heard of Labrador huskies, right? In 1953--1954 my wife and I spent a year in Labrador. What an adventurous year! We got to know huskies.

One frosty day, I had a violent run-in with huskies. It also included the opportunity to save the life of a young Labradorean, about 20. I was 23 at the time.

Not far from behind the house where we lived there was a wide, lake-like river. Of course, it the bleak mid-winter, it was frozen and covered with ten feet or more of snow. The following action took place within a few short minutes:

Dashing through the blowing-snow, a young man and his dog-team plunged over the snow-covered river bank near our house and into the deep snow on the river.

Later, I found out that it was because he had lost control of his ravenously hungry dogs. His out-of-control dogs piled on him in the deep snow. To the dogs, the body of their master look like nothing more than a side of beef tossed them as their free-lunch ready to be devoured.

Later, he agreed that losing control of a dog team--especially a team of hungry dogs--could be a fatal mistake. He also agreed that it would be the master's fault, not that of the dogs. They simply followed their nature-given animal instincts.

My part in the drama?

From my back steps I saw him and his dogs disappear over the river bank, into the deep snow. Then I heard the dogs growling at each other as they competed for the "food". Almost without thinking of the consequences, I grabbed a piece of 2-X-4 timber which I kept near my porch. I kept it as weapon in case stray dogs came after my beloved cat.

Swinging it like a battle-sword, I was soon able to get the dogs under "my control"--the key word in handling such wolf-like animals. This gave the owner time enough to get back on his feet and to find his whip, which he had lost (his fault) in the snow near my house.

Then, passing the whip to me--Boy! Did I ever feel powerful for a few minutes!--he calmly proceeded to feed his beloved dogs. He fed them chunks of frozen fish and caribou meat he had on his komatik (Inuit name for sled). Soon, with food enough to fill all their bellies, the members of his team became calm and lay down in the snow.

Satisfied, the team settled down for a good rest. Meanwhile, we invited our unexpected guest to eat with us and stay the night, if he so chose.

While he ate with us he told us about his small community of twelve families a long distance north of Rigolet--160 kilometers east of Happy Valley. As I recall, he said that his community was three-weeks away, by dog-team, north of Rigolet http://www.ourlabrador.ca/member.php?id=9

Just before our visitor left to make his way back to Rigolet, I asked him: What he thought of Happy Valley with its 115 families and all. I asked him: "What do you think of the place?

I still remember his interesting response: "Int'resting place, bye." he said, "Very int'resting. But if ye h'ask me: Tis too busy! Yes, and 'tis too crowded too, for me. And, bye d'way, tanks for yankin' dose dogs off me."
================================
NOW THINK FOR A MOMENT! ARE WE HUMAN AND SOCIAL BEINGS ALL THAT DIFFERENT FROM MANY ANIMALS?
=====================================
Most of us human beings are not all that different from all social animals. We all crave to be well-fed. But being human beings we crave something more than just food the belly. We crave food for the mind and spirit.

Without beautiful dog-like skins to shelter us from the cold, we also crave good comfortable clothes and shelter, and not just the ugly kind. You see, we need things that are lovely, beautiful, artistic and true, without being extravagant; things that feed our minds and help keep us intellectually, artistically and spiritually free. It's true: We do not live by bread, alone.

When will the mean-spirited, criminally-minded and extravagantly materialistic tyrants of the world--like the kind we currently find in Egypt, Libya, Tunisia and any number of places in this vale of tears--get the simple message that freedom-loving GOD-filled human spirits will not be crushed? Eventually, tyranny will have to go.
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#37547 - 02/25/11 04:28 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
kallog Offline
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Originally Posted By: Revlgking
message that freedom-loving GOD-filled human spirits will not be crushed? Eventually, tyranny will have to go.


They will be crushed, and they are crushed every day. The message is wrong.

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#37548 - 02/25/11 05:14 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: kallog]
Ellis Offline
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Rev- That was a nice story about the wolves but it seemed to say that the wolves regarded the master as lunch, or at least as provider of lunch, rather than experiencing the 'power' that you described. It was the human who acquired the feeling of 'god' from the encounter, not the dog. I am not saying that very profound relationships cannot exist between humans and animals, possibly because we are animals first and human ones second, and if by dealing with animals at a fundamental level we imagine are put in touch with 'god', then that is nice too, but others may also enjoy the inspiring experience of communication with another species without thinking the feeling was god-inspired.

I agree with kallog. Unfortunately the freedom lovers will be crushed whether they are GOD- filled or not. Usually the crushers win, by violence, but sometimes the crushees are victors, as (I hope), in Egypt recently. Let us hope that there is more of the sort of brave spirit, that shows the best of our humanity, in evidence over the next few weeks. It will be needed.

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#37550 - 02/25/11 01:32 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Ellis]
Revlgking Offline
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Kallog and Ellis: Do I detect that, spiritually speaking, you are pessimists? Is this a characteristic prevalent among atheists and agnostics?

BTW, I hope I am not a silly, foolish and cock-eyed optimist, but I take great pleasure in being a realistic optimist who believes in the GOD-filled process evolution.

Do I make myself clear when I say: I do not believe in a singular person-like 'God' who stood back and caused evolution to happen and proceed on it own (deism). No! For me, GOD is in the process then, now and in the eternal now we call the future. Do a search on PROCESS PHILOSOPHY AND THEOLOGY. And don't for get the following names: Alfred North Whitehead (a great mathematician who worked with the atheist, Bertrand Russell). Also check out the Rev. Charles Hartshorne. He interpreted Whitehead's deep philosophy--panentheism, which I simplify as unitheism.

Ellis, you speak, colourfully of "crushees" who become "victors". One of the ironies of history, it seems to me is this: Crushees who become victors almost invariable become crushers. I name but a few examples: The Civil War in England; the American and French Revolutions; World War I; and the Cuban Revolution. History buffs? Does anyone know a violent revolution which created a fully democratic society immediately following the violence.

BTW, did MacArthur win the Japanese to democracy by crushing them? And look what happened in Germany because of the Marshall plan. Is it just a coincidence that MacArthur and Marshall were also good Christians.

Back to the dogs-and-wolves story. Are most atheists short-term thinkers? Have you no faith in time and evolution? It took a long time for wolves, guided by human intelligence to evolve and become domesticated enough to be trainable and molded into being useful tools of their mentally-stronger masters. But eventually it happened.

Meanwhile more artistic and imaginative thinkers began to wonder--that is, to talk to themselves. They paid attention to their internal dialogue, and asked themselves--G0d at work within the human heart and mind, in my opinion:

Then, one kind-hearted and spiritually-brave woman wondered ... Then she spoke to and asked her husband: "This time when our she-wolf looks like she is ready to have cubs why don't make a safe and warm place for her close to our place? Let's make a place that we can keep warm like we keep our place. Let's feed her from our table. In addition, this time: let's not kill the runts of the litter. This time, let's see what they grow up to be, OK?

Am I being dumb to suggest: They grew up to be pets, dogs (gods when reversed).

BTW, I wrote the above before I did an Internet search
======================================================
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origin_of_the_domestic_dog
Many scientists believe that humans adopted orphaned wolf cubs and nursed them alongside human babies.

FROM WOLVES TO WOOFS
====================
http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/data/2002/01/01/html/ft_20020101.1.html

Interestingly, wolves as wolves, world-wide, are getting less and less in number. In the British Isles there are none.
http://www.wolfsongalaska.org/disappearance_of_wolves.html

Very few, if any, European countries have them. Russia perhaps. However, their presence now and in the future, in the form of dogs, is quite a success story, don't you think?


Edited by Revlgking (02/25/11 04:02 PM)
Edit Reason: Always good to do
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#37552 - 02/25/11 03:38 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
kallog Offline
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Posts: 1100
Originally Posted By: Revlgking
Kallog and Ellis: Do I detect that, spiritually speaking, you are pessimists? Is this a characteristic prevalent among atheists and agnostics?

'Spiritually'? You mean 'emotionally'?? I wish you'd be more direct in your writing. I said your message was wrong because I'm irritated by claims that something is true simply because it would feel nice if it were.

However, you're partly right. I am pessimistic about ideas that look like they aren't going anywhere. I wouldn't be surprised if most athiests/agnostics are pessimistic about religions.

I'm very optimistic about ideas that do seem to be going somewhere. Not sure what dog breeding has to do with nature-GOD, but even that gives me hope every day I see someone with a fancy dog - hope that in the future we'll have even better dogs. I'm generally very optimistic about almost everything, everything that actually holds some promise.

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#37553 - 02/25/11 04:59 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: kallog]
Revlgking Offline
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Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
As I said above:
Interestingly, wolves as wolves, world-wide, are getting less and less in number. I understand that in the British Isles there are none. The have evolved and have become political economists. Now, they are all trying to control the political economy! laugh
http://www.wolfsongalaska.org/disappearance_of_wolves.html

Very few, if any, European countries have them. Russia perhaps. However, their presence now and in the future, in the form of dogs, is quite a success story, don't you think? Evolution can be GOD-like, it seems.
===============================================
"'Spiritually'? You mean 'emotionally'?? I wish you'd be more direct in your writing. I said your message was wrong because I'm irritated by claims that something is true simply because it would feel nice if it were." Kallog

You wish me to be "more direct in my writing"? OK, give me an example.

Question: Would atheists like to see words like the following go extinct and be removed from the dictionaries?: God, god, holy, atonement, prayer, meditation, heaven, hell,forgiveness, faith, hope, love, religion, sin, spiritual, Holy Spirit ... What others come to mind?

My World Book Dictionary (2 volumes) even has agape, pneuma and pneumathology, three favourite words of mine.

BTW, WBD points out that before psychology was called psychology, it was called pneumatology--study of the Holy Spirit, including the human spirit--when it is dedicated to being holy.



Edited by Revlgking (02/25/11 07:52 PM)
Edit Reason: Always good to do
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#37566 - 02/26/11 05:25 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Ellis Offline
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Registered: 01/08/07
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Rev- Regarding dog training. I feel it is far more likely that the 'woman' in your story would have stolen a small puppy from its family and taken it home to train, much as still happens in native populations today. That tames an animal quickly and its young will bond with its captors quickly, but there is still 'wildness'. Every horse still has to be broken for riding and feral pets such as dogs and cats are a huge problem here. They have rapidly lost the degree of emotional bonding to which you refer and roam wild.

As for pessimism. No I am not a pessimist. I believe we must all have hope in the future. Humans have it in them to construct lives that are fulfilling both for themselves and others. Often this is sidelined by selfishness and lack of empathy towards others, but it exists, and is most often seen when tragedy strikes. I think it has to be allowed that human compassion is at work in Christchurch at the moment.

I think that the spirit that helps people who do improve the situation for themselves and others is the human spirit that, given the chance, trusts others to have the same love of truth and joy of living and a desire to conserve or improve it, (that said it is much more likely if you have an assured income, comfortable accommodation and a full tummy and are surrounded by a supportive population). I just don't see that god (in any form) is necessary and in many situations it is the entrenched values of the people who believe in some form of the supernatural that blocks progress for the ones who need most help. I don't think that belief in the spiritual god is as important as belief in the human spirit.

Why on earth would I want to ban any words? Rather I would want to expand everyone's vocabulary to the stage where they have more than enough words to express themselves-- and then give them the opportunity to do so.

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#37569 - 02/26/11 10:08 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
kallog Offline
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Posts: 1100
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

think? Evolution can be GOD-like, it seems.

Of course, because GOD is indistinguishable from nature, and nature involves evolution.

Quote:

following go extinct and be removed from the dictionaries?: God, god, holy, atonement, prayer, meditation, heaven,

Those words express concepts. Nothing wrong with that. But 'spiritually' is very poorly defined. In fact it's often used by athiests when they want to imagine something mysterious is going on beyond boring, dull, psychology.

Quote:

BTW, WBD points out that before psychology was called psychology, it was called pneumatology--study of the Holy

What has the historical use of words got to do with GOD? Would you lose faith in GOD if words had different histories? Can your idea be used by a non-English speaker?

You're still not saying anything about your idea, just making lots of examples of common natural things. It still looks like nothing more than nature.

So let me ask again - what's the difference between GOD and nature?

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#37581 - 02/26/11 11:32 PM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: kallog]
Revlgking Offline
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Kallog, you ask: "... what's the difference between GOD and nature?"

Kallog, keep in mind that, in my opinion 'GOD'--I could also write it as G.O.D., or G+O+D--is a very special acronym, which I do not confuse with nouns like, 'God', 'god' and nature--nouns with relative dimensions, not absolute ones.

Like the limited God of pantheism,'GOD'includes nature--that is, GOD includes nature in its material forms.

However, GOD as absolute being, was there before the Big Bang. Being absolute, GOD is also that which is in the here and now--what we call nature. In addition, GOD is that into which nature is expanding absolutely, forever and ever. GOD did not begin. Likewise, GOD will not end.

Any of us who cannot understand this concept, yet, simply will need more time to evolve until we do. What an opportunity we have, thank GOD!

Meanwhile, as defined below, pantheists think of nature and God as one and the same. Here is what pantheists say:
Quote:
Pantheism
Pantheism is a metaphysical and religious position. Broadly defined it is the view that

(1) “God is everything and everything is God … the world is either identical with God or in some way a self-expression of his nature” ... Similarly, it is the view that

(2) everything that exists constitutes a “unity” and this all-inclusive unity is in some sense divine ... A slightly more specific definition is given by Owen ... “‘Pantheism’ … signifies the belief that every existing entity is, only one Being; and that all other forms of reality are either modes (or appearances) of it or identical with it.” ...

Aside from Spinoza, other possible pantheists include some of the Presocratics; Plato; Lao Tzu; Plotinus; Schelling; Hegel; Bruno, Eriugena and Tillich. Possible pantheists among literary figures include Emerson, Walt Whitman, D.H. Lawrence, and Robinson Jeffers. Beethoven (Crabbe 1982) and Martha Graham (Kisselgoff 1987) have also been thought to be pantheistic in some of their work — if not pantheists.

Pantheism and Theism

Where pantheism is considered as an alternative to theism it involves a denial of at least one, and usually both, central theistic claims.
Theism is the belief in a “personal” God which in some sense is separate from (transcends) the world.
Pantheists usually deny the existence of a personal God. They deny the existence of a “minded” Being that possesses the characteristic properties of a “person,” such as having intentional states, and the associated capacities like the ability to make decisions.
Taken as an alternative to, and denial of, theism and atheism, pantheists deny that what they mean by God (i.e. an all-inclusive divine Unity) is completely transcendent. They deny that God is “totally other” than the world or ontologically distinct from it.

_________________________
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#37588 - 02/27/11 04:32 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
kallog Offline
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Posts: 1100
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

Like the limited God of pantheism,'GOD'includes nature--that is, GOD includes nature in its material forms.

However, GOD as absolute being, was there before the Big Bang. Being absolute, GOD is also that which is in the here and now--what we call nature. In addition, GOD is that into which nature is expanding absolutely, forever and ever. GOD did not begin. Likewise, GOD will not end.


Let me itemize it because I like things that way:
1. Material things are part of GOD.
2. GOD is a being
3. GOD is absolute
4. GOD was there before the big bang
5. GOD is (in?) nature
6. Nature is expanding absolutely into GOD
7. Nature will never stop expanding absolutely into GOD
8. GOD never began
9. GOD will never end

My questions/comments:
1,5 These statements don't distinguish GOD from nature
2 What does "being" mean?
3,6,7. What does "absolute" mean?
4,8,9. These can have no consequences on us people.
6,7. What does "expanding" mean?

So it seems the major differences between GOD and nature are that "GOD is an absolute being" and "nature is expanding into GOD". But I have no idea what that means!!! Being the crucial parts of it, I think you really should explain them.

Can you also confirm that GOD has no consiousness, no ability to make decisions, doesn't influence people's thoughts, and doesn't interact with the world in any way?

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#37589 - 02/27/11 04:50 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
Revlgking Offline
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Kallog, you ask: "Can your idea be used by a non-English speaker?"

Interesting question. It depends on what people think of as the the "ground of all being" (Paul Tillich) and highest value.

The Greek for God is Theos. It literally means the highest idea. From it we get 'theory', 'the' and 'theatre'.

Italian .....Deo
Spanish ......Deos
French........Dieu
Latin ........Deus
All are related to theos. IMO, the Greek, Latin and English 'idea' (seeing) also connote the idea of god.
Danish........Gud
Swedish.......Gud and Norwegian...sounds like 'good'.
German........Gott

Hebrew and Arabic words, 'eloh' and 'allah' are rooted in the semitic root 'el' for power. From this we get the logo El AL--to the highest heights.

Chinese ......Shangdi--literally means "above the emperor".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shangdi again this word connotes higher power.

IMO, the Saxon word 'gott' and the English 'good' connote "the highest good" (love, agape--the power to will good). Goodbye comes from Old English: God be with ye (you).

I like to put all three concepts together and we get: GOD is the one, powerful and good idea--an idea that makes sense to me.
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#37591 - 02/27/11 05:00 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: kallog]
Revlgking Offline
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You ask: "Can you also confirm that GOD has no consiousness, no ability to make decisions, doesn't influence people's thoughts, and doesn't interact with the world in any way?"

On the contrary, if we so choose, "You are, I am, we are--all of us are the points of consciousness of GOD. But only if we will it (agape) so to be, choose it and willingly act on it.

Jesus never said: "I am the son (bit of) of GOD and you are not." See John 10:34. IMO, Jesus taught: Each of us, potentially, an be at one with GOD--atonement. Thus we are empowered to do all kinds of good.

Or, We are also free to choose to do otherwise. We are free to sin, and do all kinds of evil. Neutrality--resulting in sins of omission--is not an option, IMO.

What is our will, our choice and our action--to be, or not to be? Unlike Hamlet, choosing to avoid his tragedy, I have made up my mind to be and to do.


Edited by Revlgking (02/27/11 05:15 AM)
Edit Reason: Always good to do
_________________________
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#37592 - 02/27/11 05:13 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
kallog Offline
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Posts: 1100
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

If we so choose, "You are, I am, we are the points of consciousness of GOD. But only if we will it, choose it and act on it.


We're only part of GOD if we choose to be? But GOD is in everything, so it should apply automatically to everyone.

Quote:
What is your will, choice and action?


Whatever it is, it depends on my own mind, not any influence from GOD, right? You're still just saying that GOD is another label for nature. Quite different from conventional Gods that do give an external influence to people, and where it does matter if a person believes it or not.

Even the act of believing in GOD can't change my choices because there are no guidelines about what kinds of choices are suitable for GOD. GOD has no morals, right?

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#37594 - 02/27/11 05:27 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: kallog]
Revlgking Offline
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Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 2311
Loc: markham (Thornhill), Ontario, ...
"Even the act of believing in GOD can't change my choices because there are no guidelines about what kinds of choices are suitable for GOD. GOD has no morals, right?"

Kallog, long ago, I got rid of the idea of an idol-like 'god' who has, or needs to have, things. GOD already has, and is, all that is desirable and delightful--everything.

By connecting with GOD which, like Nature, IS, I get the right share of all kinds of guidelines, opportunities, confidence and energy to act in the service of self, family and of the public good--practically, including politically and economically.


Edited by Revlgking (02/27/11 05:36 AM)
Edit Reason: Always good to do
_________________________
G~O~D--Now & ForeverIS:Nature, Nurture & PNEUMA-ture, Thanks to Warren Farr&ME AT www.unitheist.org

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#37595 - 02/27/11 08:37 AM Re: Philosophy of Religions--all religions, includ [Re: Revlgking]
kallog Offline
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Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 1100
Originally Posted By: Revlgking

Kallog, long ago, I got rid of the idea of an idol-like 'god' who has, or needs to have, things. GOD already has, and is, all that is desirable and delightful--everything.

And all that is undesirable and causes unhappynes - everything, which makes it about as enlightening as 1=1.

Quote:

By connecting with GOD which, like Nature, IS, I get the right share of all kinds of guidelines, opportunities, confidence and energy to act in the service of self, family and of the public good--practically, including politically and economically.


But that's just what atheists get. They too have a strong awareness of nature and the people around them.

Atheism doesn't mean being bad, or directionless, or not doing things for the good of self, family, and others. It doesn't impede political and economic motivation. In fact atheism can be better because it doesn't put an artificial barrier (God/GOD) as the top priority which sometimes gets in the way of doing good things.

I have a feeling you got to your position because you started as a religious person. You've stripped away nearly all the extra bits that religions attach to God, and ended up in the position that most people would call athiesm. Except you still have your old belief in something supernatural, so you call your non-god GOD and give it a couple of unhelpful supernatural properties (expanding nature into, and lasting forever) to make sure it doesn't evaporate entirely.

Wouldn't the next logical steps be to remove those superfluous properties, rename it "Ugbugu" and then phase it out altogether so you can be guided directly by the real world instead of looking through this transparent layer?

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