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Originally Posted By: Bill S.
... Rev will probably point out that here I am using "nice" in its original sense. smile
"Original sense"? You mean "simple-minded"?--the basic meaning in Middle English < Old French? < Latin, nesius, ignorant. smile

OUR TEAM EFFORT GETS RESULTS, EH?
=================================
However, in the modern sense of the word 'nicely', and as nicely as possible, may I ask all who post to this thread, which I genuinely think of as a team effort, to accept my sincere CONGRATULATIONS.

WE, as a unit, are just about ready to become members of the 4,000,000-hits-on-one-thread CLUB. THANKS! to one and all.

In no way would a few rambling posts, from one lone poster, have got this response. 5,000,000, anyone?


Last edited by Revlgking; 04/26/12 10:10 PM. Reason: Always a good idea!

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In terms of actual English usage you can safely ignore any definition prior to "precise" or "sensative".


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Bill S- You have made a point I have tried to make to others on this site many times. It may be a fine point (to use fine in a nice way too) but it is an important one. There IS a difference between not believing, and a lack of belief. There are many reasons for "no belief' . One being ignorance of the topic, and the possibility of 'belief' when other information is obtained when the situation is explored. However persistent "lack of belief" is just that.

Think of a dark room. If there is a light source there is a possibility of light. If there isn't, then there isn't. So it is with belief.

Atheism is not the product of belief, it is the product of a lack of belief. All religions require belief- faith if you prefer (though there is a nice difference there too). It is therefore impossible to prove there is no god- just as it is impossible to prove there is. If you believe in god, or the divine supernatural spiritual, then so it is. Lack of belief means god has no probability of ever being there. Who has ever seen god (in any of his/her/its manifestations? There is more documented proof of the existence of UFOs than there is of god.

However many people are inspired by and have comfort from their beliefs. And so it should be. No point of view has more veracity than the other.





P.S. And totally unrelated. How could Rev. have not heard of Stephen Fry? Here in Oz he is on TV somewhere every 24 hours, day and night-- and often more than once! I think he is clever, irritating and a genius, and have been a fan since Blackadder days!

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I have just read Rev's first post--- and

a) I am posting here again after vowing not to!

b) I have to congratulate Rev on achieving such a massive total of posters-- or should that be another nice distinction, as in, a massive total of posts.

Either way CONGRATULATIONS!

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Another P.S.

"nice" has another old meaning-- "sophisticated"--- which at the time meant "scheming" or "artificial" (the latter is much its meaning to-day).

Last edited by Ellis; 04/27/12 12:19 AM.
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Originally Posted By: Ellis
... many times I have explained ATHEISM IS NOT A BELIEF IT IS A *LACK* OF BELIEF! (And no apology for shouting)...
OK, Ellis. I heard you. Now explain: Is atheism all about having a *LACK* OF BELIEF?

Are there not a few basic and important things about human nature that atheists know, and of which, like Rene Descartes, they may have at least a modicum of feeling of certainty?


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Originally Posted By: Revlgking

WE, as a unit, are just about ready to become members of the 4,000,000-hits-on-one-thread CLUB. THANKS! to one and all.

In no way would a few rambling posts, from one lone poster, have got this response. 5,000,000, anyone?


It doesn't really matter whether it was one person or a few, the hits are indicative of those who come to look but do not respond to the topic at hand.

What would really be impressive, would be if someone other than the handful that are listed upon these pages found something of value to engage in.

I suppose 4000 people looking and ignoring the topic each day IS somewhat impressive.

I wonder if there are any other threads anywhere else, that get ignored as much as this one does. confused


I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!




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Yes-- Atheism is about a lack of belief in god.

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Originally Posted By: Ellis
Yes-- Atheism is about a lack of belief in god.
Process theologians agree: There are no gods, or a singular god, in a dimensional forms. Such a belief is child-like--or even childish--idolatry.

Last edited by Revlgking; 04/27/12 02:56 AM.

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I do not think that the various religious beliefs of others are child-like. If that is what he/she believes then so be it. I do not think that belief is age-specific, nor, come to think of it, is non-belief.

And what on earth is a 'process theologian'?

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Originally Posted By: Ellis

And what on earth is a 'process theologian'?


Process: to treat or prepare by some particular process, as in manufacturing.

A carefully prepared theologian with all defensive measures in place to preach the gospel of believability.


I was addicted to the Hokey Pokey, but then I turned myself around!!




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Bearing in mind that god, backwards, is dog; I think this post (chiefly for Ellis) is not too far off topic.

Donette spent much of yesterday being midwife to one of our daughter's pugs. The end result was 6 pups, of which this is the smallest.

Sadly, one had an internal problem and has since died, but this little girl has every intention of surviving. Rev would admire her willpower. smile



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Originally Posted By: Bill S.
... Rev would admire her willpower. smile
Bill, of course! I have been curious about the nature and function of willpower ever since I reached the first level of conscientiousness (knowledge + conscience--i.e., having a sense of right and wrong). Whenever I have a "bad" conscience about anything, including my inner-thoughts, feelings and especially my actions, I willingly acknowledge that my "bad" conscience is actually doing what it there to do--a good job.

TO REACH THE GOAL TAKES SELF-CONTROL
As I said earlier: Since my grand children gave me--for Christmas 2011--the book,WILLPOWER--Rediscovering the Greatest Human Strength by psychologist, Roy F. Baumeister, I have been making a close study of WP.

Dr. Baumeister is the director of the social psychology program of Florida State University (Tallahassee). He is the author of more than 450 widely-quoted scientific publications.


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For INFO, Ellis et al:PROCESS PHILOSOPHY & THEOLOGY
PHILOSOPHY
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Process_philosophy
Quote:

In opposition to the classical model of change as purely accidental and illusory (as by Aristotle), process philosophy regards change as the cornerstone of reality–the cornerstone of Being, thought as Becoming.

Modern philosophers who appeal to process rather than substance include Heidegger, Charles Peirce, Alfred North Whitehead, Charles Hartshorne, Arran Gare and Nicholas Rescher.

In physics Ilya Prigogine distinguishes between the "physics of being" and the "physics of becoming". Process philosophy covers not just scientific intuitions and experiences, but can be used as a conceptual bridge to facilitate discussions among religion, philosophy, and science.


THEOLOGY
Quote:
Major concepts

God is not omnipotent in the sense of being coercive. [This is why I (RevLGKing) as a unitheist, prefer using the acronym G~0~D, rather than a noun. This theology is open to all new ideas and respects individualism, including agnosticism/atheism..]

The divine has a power of persuasion rather than coercion. Process theologians interpret the classical doctrine of omnipotence as involving force, and suggest instead a forbearance in divine power. "Persuasion" in the causal sense means that God does not exert unilateral control.

Reality is not made up of material substances that endure through time, but serially-ordered events, which are experiential in nature. These events have both a physical and mental aspect. All experience (male, female, atomic, and botanical) is important and contributes to the ongoing and interrelated process of reality.

The universe is characterized by process and change carried out by the agents of free will. Self-determination characterizes everything in the universe, not just human beings. God cannot totally control any series of events or any individual, but God influences the creaturely exercise of this universal free will by offering possibilities. To say it another way, God has a will in everything, but not everything that occurs is God's will.

God contains the universe but is not identical with it (panentheism, not pantheism or pandeism). Some also call this "theocosmocentrism" to emphasize that God has always been related to some world or another.

Because God interacts with the changing universe, God is changeable (that is to say, God is affected by the actions that take place in the universe) over the course of time. However, the abstract elements of God (goodness, wisdom, etc.) remain eternally solid.

The Rev.Charles Hartshorne believes that people do not experience subjective (or personal) immortality, but they do have objective immortality, because their experiences live on forever in God, who contains all that was. Other process theologians believe that people do have subjective experience after bodily death.

Dipolar theism, is the idea that God has both a changing aspect (God's existence as a Living God) and an unchanging aspect (God's eternal essence).


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Process_theology




Last edited by Revlgking; 04/27/12 10:39 PM. Reason: Always a good idea!

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What an adorable puppy. I am glad the birthing went well as I understand pugs can be tricky due to the heads being so large! However something I have learned from the redoubtable Will is that pugs never give in! His own health is dodgy at best, but he's hanging in there as bright and breezy as ever, and at the moment, with the right treatment he's doing well.
*********************************************************************************



To turn to 'process theology'.

Is it not possible that sometimes such effort at justification of belief (and etc) diverts from the experience of absolutely knowing in your heart that there is a god (of whatever flavour) who/which cares for you, and to whom you can surrender your soul, not only for life, but also after death? Otherwise I think it's over analysing to an enormous degree, and surely the risk is that god disappears in the discussions, arguments and point scoring.

Regardless of others' opinion and choices we all have to find our own god, or not, for ourselves.

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Ellis, you are absolutely right about the difficulties of pug birthing, but, fortunately, Donette has something of a "gift" in that department. I'm glad to hear that Will is living up to his name.

Quote:
and surely the risk is that god disappears in the discussions, arguments and point scoring.


Absolutely! My mother used to grumble about not being able to see God for the Church.


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SO, WHY WASTE TIME ON PROCESS THEOLOGY, AND THE LIKE, WHEN THE REAL WORLD OF PHYSICS IS THERE FOR US TO GET TO KNOW, EH?
Quote:
The news is full of the Large Hadron Collider's search for the "God particle" and debate over the speed of light, but how many people understand the physics that lies behind it?

Professors Brian Cox and Jeff Forshaw, authors of a new book, Quantum Universe, explain why it is important for everyone to understand the basics of quantum physics.
So, using the real world of radio, it is all yours, Brian and Jeff: tell us about the REAL world. We are all ears smile
http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9622000/9622751.stm

Last edited by Revlgking; 04/28/12 02:11 AM. Reason: Always a good idea!

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Pup-date:

After a sucessful birth and what looked like a promising start, the mother developed eclampsia, then other complications, so is unable to rear the puppies. Donette and I (mostly Donette) have taken on the task of hand rearing, while our daughter looks after the mother. Unfortunately the little girl pictured earlier gave up her fight for survival at about midnight last night. The remaining girl and one of the boys are struggling a bit, but the other two boys seem to be doing well and are in very good voice.

I know this is stretching NQS a bit, but sharing seems to help, so bear with me, please.


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Oh Bill--- That is such sad news. That pictured puppy was so small too. I hope that the survivors continue to thrive and the mother is OK again soon. Hand rearing animals is a huge job, lots of sleepless nights and, as always with animals, so much guessing about what to do.

Please write and tell us how this goes,. I shall hope for good news. One thing in your favour-- pugs seem to be fighters.

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Thanks for your supportive comments, Ellis. Unfortunately the sad news is not finished. One of the boys (Gumble, named after those celebrated Austrailians)is dying as I write. The remaining girl is just about holding on, but the good news is that the other two boys are doing well. Also, mother seems to be on the mend, but there is no way she will be able to take over again; nor will our daughter breed from her again.

Our little pomeranian, who hates all other dogs with a passion, thinks the pups are wonderful.


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