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#16751 - 10/23/06 03:51 PM Re: Major News Article on Global Climate Change
Count Iblis II Offline
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Registered: 01/21/05
Posts: 375

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#16752 - 10/23/06 04:25 PM Re: Major News Article on Global Climate Change
DA Morgan Offline
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Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
Nice one Count Iblis: Real science. I expect dehammer will choke on it.
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#16753 - 10/23/06 10:15 PM Re: Major News Article on Global Climate Change
dehammer Offline
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Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 1089
why

Quote:
The earlier versions (HadCRUT2 and CRUTEM2 and their variance adjusted versions) can be found here. They are no longer being updated.


notice the word "adjusted". in order to get that kind of chart they have to adjust the old data. why do they have to keep adjusting data.

also note that the largest number of stations they use are from urban areas. which means areas that are have considerably amount of urban warming involved.
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#16754 - 10/23/06 11:39 PM Re: Major News Article on Global Climate Change
jjw Offline
Superstar

Registered: 09/07/05
Posts: 636
Loc: USA
I am an outsider but impressed:

The Count waves a word and DA Morgan feels supreme over DEH. Looks good to me.

How could DA, who very likely did not read the entire link the Count offered, decide so quickly that his science was served?
jjw

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#16755 - 10/24/06 01:05 AM Re: Major News Article on Global Climate Change
DA Morgan Offline
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Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
dehammer asks:
"notice the word "adjusted". in order to get that kind of chart they have to adjust the old data. why do they have to keep adjusting data."

Because in some cases we have shown a consistent error that we can correct.

jjw: I read several hundred pages a day. Not even close to what Thomas Jefferson used to do even while he was President of the US.
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#16756 - 10/24/06 02:16 AM Re: Major News Article on Global Climate Change
dehammer Offline
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Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 1089
the thing is da, is that only use those adjustments for older data, and are constantly adjusting them. otherwise the data does not show the effects they want.
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the more man learns, the more he realises, he really does not know anything.

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#16757 - 10/24/06 05:45 PM Re: Major News Article on Global Climate Change
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
dehammer wrote:
"http://www.deh.gov.au/events/iydd/"

To quote Bart Simpson: Duh!

We learn more with time ... not less.
Our measurements become more accurate and precise.

For you to build a grand conspiracy out of it and proclaim that it all adds up to the fact that the Arctic, Antarctic, and Greenland are not melting is preposterous on its face.

PS: Scientists also adjust older earthquake data. Does that mean the current data is not trustworthy?
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#16758 - 10/24/06 06:01 PM Re: Major News Article on Global Climate Change
dehammer Offline
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Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 1089
Quote:
Originally posted by DA Morgan:
dehammer wrote:
"http://www.deh.gov.au/events/iydd/"

To quote Bart Simpson: Duh!
????????????????

what in the world is that. i did not write that. so did i suppose to link it at. ive never seen that link before.

now your making things up.

that is about "International Year of Deserts and Desertification", something that i had not even heard of it until you claimed i linked to it.

Quote:
Originally posted by DA Morgan:
We learn more with time ... not less.
Our measurements become more accurate and precise.

For you to build a grand conspiracy out of it and proclaim that it all adds up to the fact that the Arctic, Antarctic, and Greenland are not melting is preposterous on its face.

PS: Scientists also adjust older earthquake data. Does that mean the current data is not trustworthy?
the measurements were there, and needed no adjustments. now they claim that they were showing the temperature to be too warm, yet they dont explain why they have to keep dropping those temperatures, on a continual bases. What was there more urban heating then than there is now? how were the sea temperatures readings so much higher than they were suppose to have been? there certainly was no urban heating in areas the sea covered. so why do they have to be adjusted.

also averaging is not a good scientific method for the very reason that they listed as reason for doing so.

1) the older records did not show a lot of southern results, now they do.

2) much of the older data was from northern hemisphere, and mostly in cities. That puts it mostly with u.s., england and other areas many of which were in colder regions, making the major contribution. later data used more from the equatorial areas and southern area. so of course they will be warmer.

3) can someone please explain why this looks so much like the much discredited Mann hockey stick graphs, yet is suppose to be taken seriously.
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the more man learns, the more he realises, he really does not know anything.

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#16759 - 10/24/06 07:26 PM Re: Major News Article on Global Climate Change
RicS Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/26/06
Posts: 310
Loc: Sydney, Australia
G'day,

Actually, climate temperatures do not get more accurate and precise with time. I cannot attribute this comment because it was in a private message but it does relate to data sets and by an expert in the field. I also happen to agree with the comments from my own research but from that point on we differ greatly. The person making the comment does not believe they are all that significant overall. I disagree.

"All this is trying to get the best absolute measure of monthly mean temperature ... Sadly, all these efforts have been a complete waste of time for climate purposes. They often stem from a new director of a Met Service, who reads a paper and sees a better method, so gets the service to switch to this, generally without overlap measurements. Many of the inhomogeneities in long temperature series result from changes in methods used by Met Services. Many are difficult to spot as often the method was changed overnight at all places within a country.

The climate network is collected for weather purposes. Changes get made for more accurate averages, automation, whatever. Hopefully in future, the continuity of the long-term record will be considered before any more changes are made."

Current weather station data is still not being collected in any better way overall. There are still vast differences, so the data is not getting better or more accurate, unless you switch to satellites or balloon data.

Further, the data that has been recorded previously often is not available in any form other than monthly averages, so it does not matter how much technology advances, the data remains just as defective as when it might have been taken 40 or 60 years ago.


Regards


Richard
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Sane=fits in. Unreasonable=world needs to fit to him. All Progress requires unreasonableness

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#16760 - 10/24/06 07:35 PM Re: Major News Article on Global Climate Change
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
dehammer wrote:
"what in the world is that. i did not write that."

Sometimes Ctrl-C Ctrl-V doesn't work as expected.

But then you really don't care so ... end of my participation in the thread. Last word is yours.
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#16761 - 10/24/06 11:42 PM Re: Major News Article on Global Climate Change
dehammer Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 1089
either show me where i posted that or admit your wrong.

not posting will be admission that you deliberately created that.
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the more man learns, the more he realises, he really does not know anything.

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