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#16471 - 08/22/06 10:19 PM Re: trouble for global warming fans
dehammer Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 1089
Quote:
Originally posted by Blacknad:
Quote:
Originally posted by dehammer:
What would it take for you to acknowledge that there is evidence of political motive for the global warming scare...
What would it take? Probably some evidence to acknowledge.

Can you explain the political motive for the Global Warming 'Scare'?
did you every see what happen when the same politicians began ragging about the ozone hole. companies that had made freon went out of business and the political party hacks that came up with the newer stuff got rich. is that something you want to see done with the new age ones.

how about all the politicians that have been elected claiming they were going to help clean up the co2 and pollutants that were going to destroy the earth. Id say that was pretty good motive for jumping on the band wagon.

Quote:
[QUOTE]Evidence against:

1. Scientists have been warning about Global Warming for decades and governments are still either slow to catch on and way behind the science or still in denial. If there was something for political powers to gain from Global Warming then they would have seized upon it much sooner.
are you talking about IPCC? that is a major political party. In case you have not notice, they did not use one scientist's summery in their summery. the one they created was strictly created by politicians. are you talking about the scientist that claimed in the 1970's that we were headed for a global ice age?

Quote:
2. Generally, at the centre of the political process lies a desire to increase people's dependence upon the state. The Global Warming 'Scare' has the exact opposite effect. It drives people to become self dependent for energy by finding alternative renewable energy sources that are less likely to be monopolized by government and Big Business - and also less likely to generate massive tax revenues.
name one that has really become viable that did not require huge amount of licensing fees. so far the only thing that is close is wind mills and those are not really working that well. do you have any idea how much the licensing fees cost in most places. let me give you a hint. all of the big wind farms are owned by the same big business that you say the work takes power from.


Quote:
3. A response at governmental levels requires a significant expenditure and funding for green energy projects. Most governments try to avoid situations where they have to throw away money - and if Global warming was a politically motivated scare, then that is exactly what they would be doing.
then please explain why they are trying to raise taxes to cover "green cost". going green means more tax dollars to cover the expenses (some of which are covered by other taxes as well)

Quote:
There are many reasons why Global Warming is unlikely to be a politically motivated scare. Maybe you meant something else by your statement.

If not, what is your evidence? Convince me that you are not to be lumped in with the mindless conspiracy theorists who don't believe we put a man on the moon.

Blacknad.
how about the fact that when politicians quote the IPCC report they don't included the statement that the term "climate changes" includes solar and other causes of global warming, but instead the politicians use the quote to prove that man has done a major increase in the temperature.

or how about the government agency that published the temperatures of the last century, but did so quietly because it showed the temperature has fallen in the last 5 years. when the politicians use the chart it does not include the last 5 years.

or how about the fact that AL (chicken little) Gore used Greenland coldest year of the last few decades as his bench mark to prove that the melt off has increased.

or how about how all of the politicians that use the snow fall reports from Greenland fail to mention that the year to year variation of the snowfall there and in arctic are so much that they any claim that there is less snow fall in recent years is just so much hot air.

if you think these are just me blowing hot air, try googling them for yourself. or at least read some of the links i and others have provided in other threads.
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the more man learns, the more he realises, he really does not know anything.

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#16472 - 08/22/06 10:22 PM Re: trouble for global warming fans
dehammer Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 1089
Quote:
Newsflash: Bush is in power not Gore.

By your logic Bush must be the biggest global warming advocate on earth, I think we can all agree he is not.
newsflash, Bush's cant get elected again. Gore is still trying. when Bush got elected global warming was not the biggest item he dealt with.
_________________________
the more man learns, the more he realises, he really does not know anything.

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#16473 - 08/22/06 10:57 PM Re: trouble for global warming fans
Eduardo Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/10/06
Posts: 106
Loc: Guildford, UK
Your spelling is abysmal, your grammar is a joke.
You barely, if ever, capitalise when necessary. (I assume your Shift & Caps Lock keys do work). You begin sentences with 'or'.

You are clearly educationally subnormal.

Why on earth would I take anything you have to say seriously?

Quote:
when Bush got elected global warming was not the biggest item he dealt with
No sh1t Sherlock!!!

Sorry 'bout that folks but I really do not have time for these purveyors of corporate double think.
_________________________
Eduardo
Resistance is futile. Capacitance is efficacious.
There are 10 types of people in the world... Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

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#16474 - 08/22/06 11:58 PM Re: trouble for global warming fans
TwoSheds Offline
Member

Registered: 08/17/06
Posts: 52
Loc: MA
Come now, a grammar critque? Isn't that hitting below the belt?

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#16475 - 08/22/06 11:59 PM Re: trouble for global warming fans
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
dehammer's Texas literacy level sometimes leads me to remark that perhaps it is the Big W himself. But then I remember that I, all too often, don't proof read this stuff as well as I should so I've been hesitant to criticize him.

But truly dehammer. Everything you do here reeks of a lack of actual education.
_________________________
DA Morgan

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#16476 - 08/23/06 12:40 AM Re: trouble for global warming fans
TwoSheds Offline
Member

Registered: 08/17/06
Posts: 52
Loc: MA
"Everything you do here reeks of a lack of actual education."

I've seen a lot of things that reek and don't reek of education on this site. I've certainly seen you make some very thoughtful and interesting arguments, but I was taught in school that an ad hominem argument is a logical fallacy. So it should not be used in debate.

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#16477 - 08/23/06 01:09 AM Re: trouble for global warming fans
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
You are correct. And I really do try to note label the mentally challenged as morons. But to lift the kimono a bit the truth is that sometimes it is my opinion that those posting are being willfully, wantonly, and maliciously obtuse or are intentionally trying to hijaack the site.

And given my impression of the moderators, until recently, I saw little reason not to just call 'em as I say 'em.

You'll note that now that the moderators have finally taken their job seriously I am parsing my language more carefully. Well with the exception of the occassional quote from the bard.
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DA Morgan

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#16478 - 08/23/06 12:21 PM Re: trouble for global warming fans
Eduardo Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/10/06
Posts: 106
Loc: Guildford, UK
Quote:
Originally posted by TwoSheds:
Come now, a grammar critque? Isn't that hitting below the belt?
Maybe.

I can accept illiteracy and ignorance.

However, when the ignorance is wilful and coupled with an arrogant, reactionary attitude, then I am afraid a few shots may stray below the belt as there is little, if anything, going on above the neck.
_________________________
Eduardo
Resistance is futile. Capacitance is efficacious.
There are 10 types of people in the world... Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

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#16479 - 08/23/06 02:04 PM Re: trouble for global warming fans
dehammer Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 1089
So your argument is that if I'm not using perfect grammar, i cant have a lot to say that is relevant. Every heard of narcolepsy. Its a conditions where you are half asleep most of the time, or on the verge of falling asleep. That does not mean i don't have a brain or know how to use it. It just means that i have to concentrate on things more, and somethings such as capitalizing is not that important. I try to use a spell checker, but when I'm angry at people (for example) for choosing to blindly ignore evidence and claiming it does not exist, then i get in a hurry. The links that you people have denied exist have been posted in several threads, yet since they aren't posted on the "proper" or "politically correct" sites, they cant be real. So you don't have to even notice what they say. That is not very scientific. THAT is very arrogant.

So what is your excuse for not reading the links?

Da, i find it extremely amusing that you claim others are hijacking the sites when you have a tendency to push any thread away from things you cant disprove by arguing that the poster is not smart enough to actually post it.
_________________________
the more man learns, the more he realises, he really does not know anything.

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#16480 - 08/23/06 05:36 PM Re: trouble for global warming fans
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
dehammer wrote:
"So your argument is that if I'm not using perfect grammar, i cant have a lot to say that is relevant."

No that is not what he said. Try reading again only this time for comprehension. Here it is:
"I can accept illiteracy and ignorance. However, when the ignorance is wilful and coupled with an arrogant, reactionary attitude,...."

He specifically states that he can accept you being illiterate and ignorant.

What causes the problem is, as he says, "coupled with an arrogant, reactionary attitude" such as someone who would write: "So your argument is that if I'm not using perfect grammar" which is totally contrary to what he wrote.

Walk into a room with a large mirror and look into it. Do you see yourself? Good. We don't see you. We've never met you. The only impression we have of you is the one you have made. It isn't one you should be proud to take out in public.

In the future try labelling personal opinion as personal opinion. In the future provide research results (google) to support statements that you believe to be true fact based. And in the future read more than just the words, also the intent, before posting irrelevancies.

If you do no one will care about the fact that your grammar would earn you a W in school.
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DA Morgan

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#16481 - 08/23/06 08:22 PM Re: trouble for global warming fans
dehammer Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 1089
Actually that post was based on the one he made on the previous page, not the one directly above it. I should have quoted him. I will lable mine as personal opinion when you do, which will be 90 percent of what you write. I would advise you the same, but you cant seem to find ones that are in agreement with you half the time. Perhaps a better advise is to read the links.

Now here is the primary question. WHAT does this have to do with the links i provided at the begining about there being evidence against global warming? 4 pages of post and da has yet to comment on the links nor has any save the first one. Wolfman and I are the only ones to have any comment about the subject of this thread. John M Reynolds came close. Everyone else is more interested in how bad I am with grammer, spelling and puntuation than in the fact that the people doing the global warming modeling have to adjust the temperature readings on a regular basis to keep them in line with the model.
_________________________
the more man learns, the more he realises, he really does not know anything.

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#16482 - 08/23/06 11:25 PM Re: trouble for global warming fans
Eduardo Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/10/06
Posts: 106
Loc: Guildford, UK
Quote:
Everyone else is more interested in how bad I am with grammer[sic]
Actually I believe it is just me, your paranoia not withstanding.

Quote:
but when I'm angry at people ... then i get in a hurry
Precisely, you spin out a line of pre-programmed garbage rather than actually think.

Quote:
Every heard of narcolepsy
Oh! There it is. The special pleading card.

Did you realise that I am just a brain in a jar, and the jar is in the dark, and some people put cigarette butts in the jar? This is sarcasm by the way.

Anyhoo! Onwards!

Let's look at your links shall we, mmm! Not exactly shining pillars of the scientific establishment are they?

From one of your links...
Quote:
However, it does not by itself substantially alter the expectation that some amount of global warming will occur in the future.
Ouch!!!

And from their front page
Quote:
Global warming is a reality, and some folk are taking the opportunity to study the effects firsthand.
As for John Daly, isn't he a big, fat golf pro?

Come on, surely you can do better than this?
_________________________
Eduardo
Resistance is futile. Capacitance is efficacious.
There are 10 types of people in the world... Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

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#16483 - 08/24/06 01:45 AM Re: trouble for global warming fans
John M Reynolds Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/14/06
Posts: 174
Loc: Canada
Okay, to bring this back on topic, could you answer a few questions for me?

Why is it now called climate change instead of global warming?

Why have satellites, which are accurate to 0.1 degrees and have been monitoring the earth since 1984, not detected a significant rise in global temperature?

Why do the Vostok ice cores show that the temperature has pretty much leveled off for the past 10,000 years?


You want links?
Evidence that man did not make a significant contribution to any global warming:
http://www.clearlight.com/~mhieb/WVFossils/ice_ages.html

17,000 scientists protest global warming alarmism and irrational Kyoto policies:
http://www.nightshadebooks.com/discus/messages/53/3622.html?1149192155

I found the above two in the http://www.scienceagogo.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/1072/2.html thread.

My link and its full article about global warming alarmism from that same thread:
http://www.scienceagogo.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/1072/3.html#000034

The http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/sunspot_record_041027.html page, from 27 October 2004, notes that "Sunspots have been more common in the past seven decades than at any time in the last 8,000 years, according to a new historic reconstruction of solar activity."

More evidence of a stronger sun is on the http://www.netscapades.com/franklintrail/wildlife.html page that mentions how "Inuit are now applying sunscreen to protect themselves from sunburns." A CBC radio host from Rankin Inlet being interviewed relayed stories about the sun now feeling warm in December when it never used to. This has been going on for the past 5 years or so according to him.

This, http://tinyurl.com/l6nxh (gcmd.nasa.gov), site shows the solar activity changing and calming about 10,000 years ago.

And about the Vostok ice core data, this page: http://www.daviesand.com/Choices/Precautionary_Planning/New_Data/ has a picture that has been published elsewhere that shows the 10,000 year leveling off.

The politics and big business of it is probably best left for a different forum.

John M Reynolds

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#16484 - 08/24/06 02:04 AM Re: trouble for global warming fans
John M Reynolds Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/14/06
Posts: 174
Loc: Canada
Dehammer wrote this in the http://www.scienceagogo.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/topic/1/1081/3.html#000040 post.

Quote:
... politicians ... so much hot air.
Ha ha!

Perhaps it is all the hot air from politicians that is creating any global warming. It is CO2! Save the planet... duct tape a politician's mouth shut.

John M Reynolds

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#16485 - 08/24/06 02:26 AM Re: trouble for global warming fans
dehammer Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 1089
Quote:
Originally posted by Eduardo:
Actually I believe it is just me, your paranoia not withstanding.
perhaps you might want to check out da post at the bottom of page three of this thread.

Quote:
Precisely, you spin out a line of pre-programmed garbage rather than actually think.
no, i dont "spin out a line of pre-programmed garbage." If I were spewing things out without thinking, I would be forced to join the loudest minority, and that would put me on the global warming bandwagon.

Quote:
Oh! There it is. The special pleading card.
no. I am not asking for any special favors, I was explaining why im not trying to be perfect. According to you, only those with perfect spelling and grammer are able to think for themselves. what a load of whooie.

Quote:
Did you realise that I am just a brain in a jar, and the jar is in the dark, and some people put cigarette butts in the jar?
that would explain why you have enought time and energy to try to be perfect in your words.

Quote:
Let's look at your links shall we, mmm! Not exactly shining pillars of the scientific establishment are they?
so what is wrong with the scientist that they quote? Or are you pulling a da, and claiming that only the ones that are on the global warming bandwagan are legitimate.

Quote:
From one of your links...
Quote:
However, it does not by itself substantially alter the expectation that some amount of global warming will occur in the future.
Ouch!!!
never said there would not be some. there is also some global cooling on the horizon. Does this mean we are going to go back into a full fledge glacieration?

Quote:
And from their front page
Quote:
Global warming is a reality, and some folk are taking the opportunity to study the effects firsthand.
As for John Daly, isn't he a big, fat golf pro?
which one was the quote from. come on, cant you do better than that? There might be a john daly that is a pro golfer, who knows. that does not mean hes the same one. there was a story recently about a expro basket ball player that was having trouble with fans in his home town because another ex pro basketball player with the same name from a different town and team had gotten in to trouble with the law. Oh, and lets not forget the senator that has the same name as mine, yet ive never been elected for anything past high school.

Quote:
Come on, surely you can do better than this?
sure i could but what difference would it make, you would only pay attension to the fact that it was not your party line, therefore its wrong.
_________________________
the more man learns, the more he realises, he really does not know anything.

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#16486 - 08/24/06 05:20 AM Re: trouble for global warming fans
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
Thanks for the links Mr. Reynolds. No thank for again no links Mr. Dehammer.

The problem John is that not one of those links is to a college, university, serious science publication, or any other place worth as much as a cup of coffee at Starbucks. They are all just so much internet nonsense.

If you can't find it at washington.edu, or nasa.gov, or similar it is unworthy of consideration and I think you know it. The fact that you couldn't find anything serious to support your proposition speakes very loud volumes with respect to its credibility (or lack thereof).
_________________________
DA Morgan

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#16487 - 08/24/06 08:56 AM Re: trouble for global warming fans
Anonymous
Unregistered


Dan,
I'm kind of tired of your elitist attitude.

Amaranth

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#16488 - 08/24/06 11:28 AM Re: trouble for global warming fans
John M Reynolds Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/14/06
Posts: 174
Loc: Canada
Amaranth Rose, who is Dan?

DA, why did you not answer my questions?

As well, my first link references phd's from Harvard- Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics; a Professor of Environmental Sciences, University of Virginia; a doctor from Massachusetts Institute of Technology; Committee on Environmental and Public Works, Department of Atmospheric Science and Earth System Science Laboratory, University of Alabama in Huntsville; someone from University of Sussex, Brighton, England; Journal of Atmospheric and Solar- Terrestrial Physics; and Dalhousie University

The second is about more than 17,100 basic and applied American scientists, two-thirds with advanced degrees.

The third is a link to a thread on this site.

The fourth quotes scientists: a climatologist and former professor at the University of Winnipeg; an adjunct professor in the department of physics and atmospheric science at Dalhousie University; a retired (in 1994) senior research scientist in meteorology and oceanography at the Department of Fisheries and Oceans who is now leading an international scientific team that includes the United Nations and the Canadian Weather Service; a professor of the Marine Geophysical Laboratory at James Cook University in Australia

The fifth was about a study from Max Planck Institute in Germany

The sixth was just about observations of arctic changes. You seem to allow observations about glaciers, so this is just more evidence.

The seventh is from nasa

The last shows data that was published in Nature and Environmental Science and Technology (American Chemical Society), and Quaternary Science Reviews.

Now that I have shown that the links cite scientists and science journals, will you now answer my questions:

Why is it now called climate change instead of global warming?

Why have satellites, which are accurate to 0.1 degrees and have been monitoring the earth since 1984, not detected a significant rise in global temperature?

Why do the Vostok ice cores show that the temperature has pretty much leveled off for the past 10,000 years?

John M Reynolds

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#16489 - 08/24/06 12:43 PM Re: trouble for global warming fans
dehammer Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 1089
Thanks, John, for those links and the discussion of them. When Amaranth Rose refered to Dan it was Daniel A Morgan.

DA, the thing is, ive given you links before and with you elitist atitude, ive given up with them since you dont bother reading them. Otherwise you would have known about all the scientist and such that John mentioned in the last post. Of course, since Ive already mention many of those scientist in other threads, Im already aware that you have by now discounted every one of them as being a crank because they dont agree with the preprogrammed party line you spout. When you are ready to discuss content of the links ill give more links.
_________________________
the more man learns, the more he realises, he really does not know anything.

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#16490 - 08/24/06 01:13 PM Re: trouble for global warming fans
dehammer Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 1089
here is another point that Ive been trying to make. this guy says it better.

http://www.pik-potsdam.de/~stefan/Media/amsterdam.html

note that some of the media are now starting to worry about global freezing because of a misquote from this scientist by the name of Stefan Rahmstorf, Professor of Physics of the Oceans
Potsdam University and Member of the Academia Europaea.

the media gets ahold of a simi good news story and creates a panic.
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the more man learns, the more he realises, he really does not know anything.

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