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The universes expansion accelleration solved.
by Marchimedes
05/14/20 07:25 AM
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#16251 - 10/26/06 06:42 PM Can you wrap your mind around this?
DA Morgan Offline
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Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
Locality in this classical sense is a myth. Nothing is where it seems to be. An elephant, falling into a black hole, must be in more than one place at one time.

Source:
http://www.newscientistspace.com/article/mg19225751.200-the-elephant-and-the-event-horizon.html

This is one of the most fascinating items I've seen in years. And presented in a way that most people should be able to grasp some element of it.

Enjoy!
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#16252 - 10/26/06 07:39 PM Re: Can you wrap your mind around this?
samwik Offline
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Registered: 10/10/06
Posts: 1164
Loc: Colorado
Way Cool, DA....

"Even though Maldacena's universe was very different from ours, the elegance of the theory suggested that our universe might be something of a grand illusion - an enormous cosmic hologram (New Scientist, 27 April 2002, p 22)."

As do the several other theories, re: my 10/16 post:
"If I want to think of outside the universe (our 4-D universe), I think of it as a 4-D bubble on an anti-DeSitter membrane in 8-space being sucked into a blck hole. -Hey, maybe that's why we're expanding; being stretched as we decend into the black hole. Hope this gives you a laugh (...but pause for a thought too). I've certainly questioned all these [4-D] precepts too; and still do!"

Speaking of relativity, "Now that notion has been shattered, says Susskind"

Finally!

~samwik

P.S. I wasn't kidding, check out anti-deSitter space (or just deSitter space).
~Space is defined by the horizons around (& within) it. Dimension ~= Horizon ??
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Pyrolysis creates reduced carbon! ...Time for the next step in our evolutionary symbiosis with fire.

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#16253 - 10/26/06 07:47 PM Re: Can you wrap your mind around this?
Uncle Al Offline
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Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 540
Loc: Southern California
[qote]The higher-dimensional strings can be thought of as a "holographic" projection of the quantum particles on the surface, similar to the way a laser creates a 3D hologram from the information contained on a 2D surface.[/quote]
That is a curious statement. Seems to me that foil holograms are effectively 2-D in structure (aside from digital optics created by indentation) and they can only present a 2-D image. If you want a 3-D image you need an emulsion hologram that has depth as well as linear extent. It is a non-trivial distinction.

The information of a black hole only depends upon its event horizon area - that has a finite number of bits/unit area. One presumes Suskind knows the difference between 2-D and 3-D hologram generations and chose wisely.
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#16254 - 10/26/06 09:01 PM Re: Can you wrap your mind around this?
samwik Offline
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Registered: 10/10/06
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Now I can't get that old Firesign Theater jingle out of my head:

How Can You Be In Two Places At Once, When You're Not Anywhere At All...


~~Later, when it gets annoying I'll try that, re: below.
Thanks again DA,
~s
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#16255 - 10/26/06 09:11 PM Re: Can you wrap your mind around this?
DA Morgan Offline
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Loc: Seattle, WA
Perhaps you could forget it if you listened to "Waiting for the Electrician or Someone Like Him."
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#16256 - 10/26/06 11:02 PM Re: Can you wrap your mind around this?
Pragmatist Offline
Member

Registered: 03/10/06
Posts: 84
Loc: N.W. U.S.
If you switch back & forth between observers,
as the article referenced does, you make a real muddle.
Alice observes the elephant from one frame,
Bob from a second and no allowance is made.
I won't try to speak to the multi dimensional
math, but confusing frames doesn't seem to me
to be a course to enlightenment.
If you dropped that elephant into the black hole,
and no-one was observing, would it make a sound??

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#16257 - 10/26/06 11:47 PM Re: Can you wrap your mind around this?
DA Morgan Offline
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Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
Relativity has always assumed multiple frames-of-reference. This just extends it to another realm of reality.

Not only is time relative ... space is too.

It should not be much of a surprise.

And no doubt the entire matter is resolved by the fact that message can not be transmitted between the frames-of-reference faster than the speed of light in a vacuum keeping it all logically consistent.
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#16258 - 10/27/06 01:47 PM Re: Can you wrap your mind around this?
extrasense Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 427
Loc: USA
Quote:
Originally posted by DA Morgan:
. An elephant, falling into a black hole, must be in more than one place at one time.
Enjoy!
What a pile of garbage!
The simultaneity is relative, so it is not "at one time".

Pseudoscience + pseudoreprting

ES

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#16259 - 10/27/06 07:17 PM Re: Can you wrap your mind around this?
DA Morgan Offline
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Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
Extrasense ... please don't criticize what you don't understand.

Doing so leads me to want to tell you what I'm really thinking and I don't want to give the censors the pleasure.
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#16260 - 10/27/06 08:55 PM Re: Can you wrap your mind around this?
extrasense Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 427
Loc: USA
Quote:
Originally posted by DA Morgan:
what you don't understand.
What do you mean? I have made the pertinent calculations, in the framework of General Relativity. Jeez..

ES

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#16261 - 10/27/06 10:36 PM Re: Can you wrap your mind around this?
DA Morgan Offline
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Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
You have the calculation? What a wonderful revelation.

In what peer reviewed journal can I find them?

When do you get your Nobel Prize?
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#16262 - 10/28/06 03:06 AM Re: Can you wrap your mind around this?
extrasense Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 427
Loc: USA
Quote:
Originally posted by DA Morgan:
When do you get your Nobel Prize?
If you would know anything at all, those calculation have been made before me either. I did it to check if they have avoided any mistakes. That would be a kill/ if I'd find them in error!/


E:)S

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#16263 - 10/28/06 06:28 PM Re: Can you wrap your mind around this?
DA Morgan Offline
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Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
Which, I presume, translates to the fact that they have never been written up and submitted to peer review where errors might actually be found.
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#16264 - 10/29/06 10:23 AM Re: Can you wrap your mind around this?
samwik Offline
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Registered: 10/10/06
Posts: 1164
Loc: Colorado
Quoting DA Morgan from the ?God & science? thread on Origins.

?We are the elephant. We are part of the universe. A part that is conscious of its own existence. And we are just desperately trying to comprehend our environment and our condition.?

DA: That was an excellent conclusion (along with Te's) for the G&s thread, but I just had to clarify my take on this analogy used on that thread. It seemed too off-topic over there, but is much more on-topic here (if not too picky).

*_*

?According to Bob, the elephant went through and floated along happily for eons until it turned into spaghetti.? ?from the NewScientist link above-

Just to clarify (although I?m sure we?re both partially wrong), I see it as if we are ?Bob? riding along with the elephant (the universe, or 4-D bubble) as it is sucked into the event horizon, floating happily along it?s trajectory (the anti-deSitter membrane) toward the singularity, stretching ?for eons until it [the universe/elephant] turned into spaghetti.?

Long live the Flying Spaghetti Monster!

Out in 8-space, Alice (God) is watching curiously, as we are, as you say, ?desperately trying to comprehend our environment and our condition.?

Long may we ride the FSM!
~Sam smile
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Pyrolysis creates reduced carbon! ...Time for the next step in our evolutionary symbiosis with fire.

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