Science a GoGo's Home Page Forums General Discussion Not-Quite-Science Forum Bible Proves Science

We can not rely on the Bible to support an all knowing God, or super superior being.
An example:
After the Lord God puts Adam and Eve in the garden of eden they eat the forbidden fruit and god returns to the garden not knowing this fact.

Genesis 3:9
and the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, where art thou?

Not even the bible consistently supports the concept of an all knowing entity. Their god did not know of their eating the fruit nor for that matter where Adam was hiding. More like a space visitor.
jjw

I agree. In fact they are examples I have used myself.

So now we have clearly established a god who not only doesn't know the future but in fact doesn't even know where Adam is in the garden.

So how do we rectify it when considering this:
"For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things." I John 3:20

Apparently that is not a true statement. Or consider this.

Does god know the future? If not the story of Armageddon is a cruel fairytale: Nothing more.

I have in times past tried to interpret the biblical use of the language as interpreted by the St. James Bible. We find, the Lord, God and the Lord God used at different times to denote the superior entity.

DA, note your quote above it refers to "God" as greater specifically. My working conclusion is that only the singular "God" was intended to denote the potential creator. All other references are to lesser living creatures. No way right now to prove it and not the right place for me try.
jjw

this is something i have never gotten an explination of from the bible thumbers. best answer i ever got was being told that the bible had many parables.

Hi dehammer:

Do you suggest it is not logical to tell people not to do something even though you know that they might or that they will do it? it was the "Lord God" that did not know the facts. For you to conclude anything you should get the parties identified, Do not confuse the entities that are involved. "God' is not really "Lord God" is it? If you want to lump it all- then OK.
jjw

sorry this did not make sense. i have not refered to "lord god" at any point. The closest i got was in quoting da, about the chritian god not knowing that eve was going to eat the apple. Or knowing and setting her up to eat it. Da brought up that point and i mention that i have never gotten a good answer from any bible thumper.

jjw wrote:
"All other references are to lesser living creatures."

Well that's a kick in the old monotheism but it is logically consistent with belief in the devil and Greek, Roman, and Norse mythology, and best of all doesn't conflict with the biggest indicator of all that there are multiple gods: Commandment 2.

God is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient. God knows the beginning from the end. There are many astounding Bible prophecies. For example, in Daniel 9, Daniel has the most remarkable of all prophecies. Daniel lived in the Bablyon Captivity. He prophesied that "from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince, there will be [480 years]." We know that the decree to rebuild the temple came in the month Nisan in the twentieth year of King Artaxerxes from Nehemiah 2:1. From archaeology, we know that Artaxerxes reigned form 465-425 to 424 B.C., so twenty years into his reign would be the year 445 B.C. The first Hebrew and Babylonian month is translated in English as Nissan. It is equivalent to the Julian calendar month of March-April. Since it doesn?t tell the date of the month that Nehemiah met with Artaxerxes, we can assume that it was the first of the month because it would mean the first of that year. The first of the Nissan month happened to fall on what we would know as March 14 on the Julian calendar. So that would mean that the decree to rebuild Jerusalem would have fallen on what we would know as the date March 14, 445 B.C.

As we have established earlier, one day is equivalent to one literal year. In Daniel 9:25 it says that ?from the issuing of a decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince, there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks.? The Hebrew calendar contains 360 days. If there are 69 weeks before the Messiah comes, then there are 483 days, but as we discussed earlier a day is equal to a year. So 483 years multiplied by 360 days is equal to 173,800 days. Archeological evidence along with Church history shows that Jesus entered Jerusalem on April 6, 32 A.D. Passover is celebrated during the time that Jesus was in Jerusalem (the last supper was Passover night), proving that he must have been at Jerusalem during the time recorded. So now we check if 173,880 days brings us from March 14, 445 B.C. to April 6, A.D. 32.

An unknown individual published an essay about this and figured out the calculations. They brought up the argument that from March 14, 445 B.C. to April 6, A.D. 32 would seem to be 477 years and 24 days in the Julian calendar . But we have to add one year from 1 B.C. to A.D. 1 because there is no year 0. So it comes to 476 years and 24 days in our Julian calendar. If we multiply 476 by 365 (which is how many days our Julian calendar has) we get 173,764 days. Add the extra 24 days and we get 173,764 days.

Where did the other 116 days go? If you ask that that question, let me remind you that our calendar uses leap years every four years. If you divide 476 by 4, you get 119 days; three days off. Why are we three days off? Our Julian years are actually 1/128 of a day too long. Which means that every 128 years, our calendar becomes off by one day. We solve that problem by skipping a leap year every 128 years. In 483 years, there are exactly three periods of 128. Which means you subtract three days off the total sum. Which would get you to 173,880 days. Wait, that sounds familiar. That?s exactly how many days Daniel prophesized would be between the decree to build the temple and the appearance of Messiah.

The seventy weeks of Daniel was not written at the time of Christ so his followers could prove that he was ?Messiah the Prince?. It was written during the reign of Darius I, King of Babylon who ruled from 521 B.C. to 485 B.C. It was written six centuries before the time of Christ. A prophecy so exact, it pinpointed that the Messiah would reach Jerusalem to the very day, could only have come from the God of Creation who knows the beginning from the end.
There are copies of the manuscript of Daniel dating back to the 100's B.C. Of course it was written when it states, but if it wasn't, it was still 100+ years before Christ. How's that for a prophesy? God can see the beginning from the end after all.

can you prove that it was not change. its also possible that it was created to fit the prophacy.

since your such an expert, please answer this.

if god was so allknowing, how did he not know that eve would eat the apple. If he knew that she would eat the apple, why did he put it with in her reach, then get mad when she ate it. If he was so omnipotent, then he would have none that telling her not to eat it would make her want to eat it. If he did not want her to eat it, he could have told her that is was a bad tree and that it would make her sick.

"An unknown individual published an essay about this and figured out the calculations."

Well that certainly *sounds* authoritative.

Numerology is not science.

Put some of your effort into studying real science.

Tim wrote:
"God is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient."

What you wrote is impossible. A reasonable representation of bible school theology but logically impossible and I will prove it to you.

Genesis 3:9 (King James version)
"And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?"

Well so much for omnipresent and omniscient. The poor sod doesn't know where Adam is.

Want a few hundred more proofs that your statement isn't correct ... they are all there in black and white.

Push yourself to a more adult, more nuanced, understanding of the text. You have a brain capable of asking questions for a reason and I'd like to encourage you to do so.

I do ask questions; a lot of questions. Just my bible has answers; a lot of answers. God was just testing Adam's obedience and for Adam to admit that he ate from the tree.

You ask questions that your parents and sunday school teachers have coached you to ask. You don't ask real questions. You're not interested in science. You're interested in proselytizing what you've been told.

they why did he get all mad and punish adams decendants to the end of time when adam admitted it. If god knew in advance that eve was going to eat it, and adam was going to share it, then he would not have gotten angry, merely disappointed. then he would have banished adam, but allowed his decendants to return.

Tim wrote:
"Just my bible has answers; a lot of answers. God was just testing Adam's obedience and for Adam to admit that he ate from the tree."

The issue here is not whether your bible has answers. For some it may for others it may not. To most people on this planet (Chinese, Indian, Indonesian) it is just so much fiction: But that is not the point I want to make. The point I want to make is that it is not the words ... anyone can read the words. It is about the interpretation. You are being fed a specific interpretation of those words. An interpretation that wasn't true 100 years ago and won't be true 100 years from now. Thus it is not something you should accept without using your brain in a more adult fashion.

Now with respect to God testing Adam's obedience that is clearly not the case and you already shot a hole into your own argument with a cannon.

You wrote: "God is omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient." Remember. Well if god is omniscient then he already knows the answer to the test before he gives it doesn't he. So the test is preposterous?

Here's another example and as I said I can cite hundreds more. God tests Adam and Eve with the fruit on the tree of knowledge. If he is omniscient he already knows they will eat it before he ever created the tree. So the tree and the fruit are just a set up. He created, obviously intentionally, imperfect beings that he knows in advance will fail.

This is what I mean Tim about using your brain. You are almost an adult. You need to start asking adult questions ... not children's questions. And demanding adult answers ... not children's answers.

True love requires a choice. God loved Adam so he gave him a choice to eat from the tree. Did he know Adam would fail? Yes. If God would have just tied Adam to the ground and not let him do anything, would that be a loving God? No; because true love requires a choice.
Let me use an example; For some strange reason a nuclear bomb explodes; killing everyone on the planet except one male and one female. They had know each other before that and utterly despised each other. Now since they're the only humans left they might decide to marry and have kids for the sake of humanity; not because they love each other, but because they have no other choice.
Now I know that that isn't the best example, but it works.
God created us knowing that we would ultimately fail. That's why he sacrficed His only Son so that our sins would be poured out on Him. Now we can have an eternal life seperated from our sins and failings simply by our faith in Jesus Christ; if God would have never created humans in the first place, they wouldn't have had the chance to experience this perfect, holy eternal life. God created us to have a purpose; and that is to live eternally with him seperated from our sins. That is our cause in life; to worship God.

Tim,
Do you have ANYTHING about actual science to contribute?

Tim wrote:
"True love requires a choice."

Stop repeating children's Sunday School nonsense and use your brain like an adult.

If a being is omniscient, all knowing, then there can be no choice: The answer is known before the question is asked.

You need some serious help growing up but, unfortunately, I fear you are being fed nonsense at home, nonsense at a religious school (or even worse being home schooled) and are heading for a captive religious college where you can be fed even more nonsense. When do you plan on becoming an adult that uses he own brain not someone else's?

IFF asks:
"Do you have ANYTHING about actual science to contribute?"

He doesn't even have anything about religion to contribute. He knows nothing of his own religion other than the level fed to children in Sunday school.

He either going to spend the rest of his life with his head stuffed into the sand or he's going to have to face a very adult decision very soon.

Personally I don't think he has the courage to morph from child to adult. Likely be someone's trained parrot for the rest of his life.

Wake up Tim ... wake up!

Dan,

I don't think you fully understand what you expect of him. I remember my own realization was accompanied by thoughts of suicide. To finally comprehend that everything you have been told by the people you trusted is a lie - and some of it obviously stupid - is overwhelming experience.