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#14833 - 08/31/06 05:11 AM Re: Creationism or Evolutionism
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
I really didn't want to do this but I will.

1) Literal 2006 interpretation of the King James version as defined by American Southern Baptists
2) 2006 Interpretation of the Roman Catholic Church
3) Interpretation of the Roman Catholic Church at the time of the Codex Amiatinus
4) Interpretation of the Roman Catholic Church at the time of the Latin Vulgate
5) 2006 Interpretation of the Torah as defined by the Orthodox Jewish authorities in Jerusalem
6) 2006 Interpretation by an Reform Jewish Rabbi in Edina, Minnesota
7 ... 50,000) Interpretations by every sect of every extant religion on the planet including Scientology
50,001) Evolution as defined at Wikipedia on 30 August, 2006
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution

It is a crock. If it isn't evolution as defined by PhD researchers working in the field it is just semantic nonsense perpetrated or perpetuated by the ill-educated or the religious zealot.

Just as there is no astronomy except as practiced by astronomers, no skiing except as practiced by skiers. Evolution is defined by those that work in the field.

I don't see churches trying to tell seismologists that their models are wrong. What makes them think they are more knowledgeable about genetics?

That was a purely rhetorical question so please don't respond.
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#14834 - 08/31/06 08:08 PM Re: Creationism or Evolutionism
soilguy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/28/05
Posts: 414
Loc: North Carolina
How about the hundreds, if not thousands, of other creation stories that exist?

See: http://dickinsg.intrasun.tcnj.edu/diaspora/creation.html

http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/ANCJAPAN/CREAT.HTM

http://www.indians.org/welker/creation.htm

http://www.wsu.edu:8001/~dee/NAANTH/CREATION.HTM

http://members.aol.com/egyptart/crea.html

And about 20 different stories here:
http://www.gly.uga.edu/railsback/CS/CSIndex.html
_________________________
When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
--S. Lewis

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#14835 - 08/31/06 09:54 PM Re: Creationism or Evolutionism
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
That's why I wrote 7 - 50,000.

There are a huge number of creation stories. Each one as invalid as the other. But then why would one expect that people that hadn't even discovered penicillin would be capable of anything else.
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#14836 - 09/01/06 03:31 PM Re: Creationism or Evolutionism
Tim Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 192
Loc: California
After the tower of Babel, God scattered all the people living to other parts of the earth. That is the reason why so many cultures and religions have the same stories, although thousands of years have changed them somewhat. That is why there are cultures in Africa that have never even seen an outside human being before have a story of a global flood although they have never been contacted by other people.

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#14837 - 09/01/06 05:13 PM Re: Creationism or Evolutionism
soilguy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/28/05
Posts: 414
Loc: North Carolina
Quote:
Originally posted by Tim:
After the tower of Babel, God scattered all the people living to other parts of the earth. That is the reason why so many cultures and religions have the same stories, although thousands of years have changed them somewhat. That is why there are cultures in Africa that have never even seen an outside human being before have a story of a global flood although they have never been contacted by other people.
So you feel those are all the same story? It's good that you've mastered the creationist hand-wave, because when presented with facts, the powerful hand-wave of the creationist makes all those ugly facts disappear.

There is no magic, Tim. There wasn't any in biblical times and there isn't any today.
_________________________
When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
--S. Lewis

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#14838 - 09/01/06 07:36 PM Re: Creationism or Evolutionism
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
Tim it is time to grow up a bit.

You are talking to adults not children. We all have read that text more than you, all heard the explanations more than you. Are you unable to get past the rote repetition of what you've been told? Don't you have an original thought in your head? And most importantly aren't you the least bit embarrased by the fact that you are quoting elementary-school level bible stories on a science forum?

You should be.

But lets test your ability to use your brain. What evidence is there, I mean real evidence not just that bible story, that the people were scattered all over the earth?

Do the Chinese have stories of how they came to reside in China that correspond?

Do the Incas in the Yucatan have an identical story?

How about the Tutu's in Rwanda?

And how is it, if the story is true, that only one small group of people in one specific geographical region retained the original text and language and features and the others, and only the others, changed?

It is time to start thinking for yourself or go away. Which will it be?
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#14839 - 09/01/06 09:38 PM Re: Creationism or Evolutionism
dehammer Offline
Megastar

Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 1089
Quote:
Originally posted by Tim:
After the tower of Babel, God scattered all the people living to other parts of the earth. That is the reason why so many cultures and religions have the same stories, although thousands of years have changed them somewhat. That is why there are cultures in Africa that have never even seen an outside human being before have a story of a global flood although they have never been contacted by other people.
rather than listen to what the church says about those stories, why not google them yourself.

here is a few things you will find.

1) all the stories come from areas around rivers. In areas that dont have rivers, they dont have stories about floods.

2) many of those stories are about mystical warrors that beat back the flood. In Africa, there is a story about a warror that fought the flood with a spear and saved his family. no mention of animals at all.

3) in china, the stories is about a warrior with a sword that split the flood in half to save his town. ther was no mention of animals.

4) in south america there is a story about the gods fighting and one of them cried, flooding the world. Only one man and one woman survived. the only mention of animals is the dead animals they lifed on. No mention of children either.

5)Inits and native americans dont have any legends about floods, but there is a couple of stories from some of the tribes about a spirit getting mad at someone and racing down the river bank after them. Either they got the bad guy or the hero managed to escape though his special streagth.

6)If there were a global flood story, polonesian (sp?) islanders would surely have had stories of it, but they dont.

7) all the stories that are simular to the bibles all stem from the middle east.
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the more man learns, the more he realises, he really does not know anything.

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#14840 - 09/02/06 12:28 AM Re: Creationism or Evolutionism
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
Two things: First a correction for a misspelling. My references was to the Tutsi's in Rwanda.

Second, and this is directed to you Tim. Tell me from your knowledge (I mean without looking it up with a search engine) about the Epic of Gilgamesh and its relationship to Genesis.

If you can't then you need to read it.

You need to learn its history as it relates to Jewish history.

You need to learn how much of the original text from the Epic is in Genesis.

And why.

If they didn't tell you about this, and they haven't, you need to start asking yourself why.

True enlightenment begins with asking why. And then having the courage to find out for yourself.
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DA Morgan

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#14841 - 09/02/06 02:19 AM Re: Creationism or Evolutionism
Eduardo Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/10/06
Posts: 106
Loc: Guildford, UK
You are all just figments of my imagination....

And have no external reality....

Especially Tim, boy was I ill that day...

PS Gilgamesh PREDATES the bible and has many of the same stories that the 'bible' copied.
Including the flood and a boat full of animals.
Also the egyptian god Ptah originally uttered 'the word' that was creation. (Way before Jahweh was even thought of let alone married, Oh you didn't know he had a wife!!!).
The bible is merely a 'fun' compendium of old stories, not particularly original, in fact, fairly generic.
_________________________
Eduardo
Resistance is futile. Capacitance is efficacious.
There are 10 types of people in the world... Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

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#14842 - 09/02/06 02:42 AM Re: Creationism or Evolutionism
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
I was hoping Tim would face the question without such close proximity to the answer but since it is here lets expand on it.

Tim ... the story of Genesis is a plagiarism. It is a copy with editing. Of the Epic of Gilgamesh interspersed into other known stories. All of which are far older than the creation of the Torah by the Jews.

They got the story of Noah from the Sumerians' epic. They got their single god from the Egyptians.

There is nothing original here other than the make-believe stories created by religious organizations and cults to explain the text and keep people from looking behind the curtain.

Read this Tim:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea
then this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Council_of_Nicaea

This is the part of your religious heritage that was censored. Pay close attention:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_books_of_the_New_Testament

And here are a few more links that might add to your education:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_canon
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DA Morgan

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#14843 - 09/02/06 03:14 AM Re: Creationism or Evolutionism
Eduardo Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/10/06
Posts: 106
Loc: Guildford, UK
I'm sorry about that DA.

But you must realise that all such writings whether post or ante-dating the bible are obviously the work of satan or somesuch.

"and verily, our fascistic religion shall bury it's head in the sand, and call 'foul' against all who speak agen' us" ...amen.
_________________________
Eduardo
Resistance is futile. Capacitance is efficacious.
There are 10 types of people in the world... Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

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#14844 - 09/08/06 11:15 PM Re: Creationism or Evolutionism
Tim Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 192
Loc: California
Do you really mean that you trust what wikipedia has to say? And what does the Council of Nicaea have to do with anything? And what does the "lost books" have to do with anything; they were probably literature written that was and is not cannonized or thought as inspired by God or have not been fully preserved. And yes, some were quoted in the Bible like the book of Jashar and the book of Enoch. And what does the Biblical canon have to do with anything?

O how great God is

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#14845 - 09/13/06 08:15 AM Re: Creationism or Evolutionism
Rigor O'Mortis Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/13/06
Posts: 12
"After the tower of Babel, God scattered all the people living to other parts of the earth. That is the reason why so many cultures and religions have the same stories, although thousands of years have changed them somewhat. That is why there are cultures in Africa that have never even seen an outside human being before have a story of a global flood although they have never been contacted by other people."

Come on ! Give me a break ! I am constantly amazed by people's lack of judgement, but this is a bit too much. We're not kids, you know...

"But you must realise that all such writings whether post or ante-dating the bible are obviously the work of satan or somesuch."

Just a quick reality check: you were being ironical, Eduardo, right ?

"Do you really mean that you trust what wikipedia has to say? And what does the Council of Nicaea have to do with anything? And what does the "lost books" have to do with anything; they were probably literature written that was and is not cannonized or thought as inspired by God or have not been fully preserved. And yes, some were quoted in the Bible like the book of Jashar and the book of Enoch. And what does the Biblical canon have to do with anything?"

Let me get this straight: you show this guy that his religion was totally man-made, and that the "holy book" was actually carefully selected from texts that do not connect to each other very much, and you show him that part of the same culture on which the Bible was based was actually banned because they gave a more realistic and objective view of the historical circumstances, and he states there's nothing wrong with that. Thumbs up, buddy ! Way to go !

"O how great God is"
You know what, just take those medications this time, and I'm sure you'll fell much better in a few days.

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