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#14397 - 04/05/06 07:59 AM Climate Musings Spark Religious Brouhaha
Kate Offline

Senior Member

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 334
Researchers at Florida State University speculate that the popular religious figure Jesus probably walked on an isolated patch of floating ice, rather than liquid water...

http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/20060305034532data_trunc_sys.shtml

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#14398 - 04/05/06 08:24 AM Re: Climate Musings Spark Religious Brouhaha
Easy Life Offline
Member

Registered: 04/02/06
Posts: 45
Loc: Glasgow - Scotland
Yeah right!!! And amongst the eyewitness accounts reporting the event were fishermen and we're supposed to believe that these people who made a living off the water didn't realise there were ice packs floating around? Your FSU researchers may be stoopid, but your simple Galilean village folk weren't. Who's paying them to come up with this?

Easy.

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#14399 - 04/05/06 07:41 PM Re: Climate Musings Spark Religious Brouhaha
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
And if he can in on a surf board, hanging ten, the text would similarly have said he walked on water.

I don't think we need to conjure up anything here by way of explanation more than a rejigging of age old mythology just like the virgin birth plagiarized from the Epic of Gilgamesh.
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DA Morgan

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#14400 - 04/05/06 10:51 PM Re: Climate Musings Spark Religious Brouhaha
Easy Life Offline
Member

Registered: 04/02/06
Posts: 45
Loc: Glasgow - Scotland
Quote:
Originally posted by DA Morgan:
And if he can in on a surf board, hanging ten, the text would similarly have said he walked on water.

I don't think we need to conjure up anything here by way of explanation more than a rejigging of age old mythology just like the virgin birth plagiarized from the Epic of Gilgamesh.
Do you really want to go down that road? No credible contemporary scholar (Christian or not) holds your position about Gilgamesh or Horus, Cybele, Mithras. You are 50 years behind the times and have been spoon fed a diet of outdated BS. And worse, without really understanding what you're saying you propagate it. There must be more honest ways of slapping Christians down.

Easy.

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#14401 - 04/06/06 06:26 AM Re: Climate Musings Spark Religious Brouhaha
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
_________________________
DA Morgan

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#14402 - 04/06/06 08:24 AM Re: Climate Musings Spark Religious Brouhaha
Kate Offline

Senior Member

Registered: 10/16/04
Posts: 334
Hang on, this topic was about climate related stuff and now seems to be about the life of Christ. I'll shift it to Origins. However, it's worth mentioning that the Origins board is supposed to be about where we came from, not religious studies per se. A fine line I'll grant you, but it does exist...

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#14403 - 04/06/06 04:32 PM Re: Climate Musings Spark Religious Brouhaha
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
Attention Kate: This IS the Origins forum.

But if you want to whack something go right ahead. Go to the top and look at what you posted.

"speculate that the popular religious figure Jesus probably walked on an isolated patch of floating ice"

Jesus walking on ice? Jesus? In Israel? A bearded guy in a robe hanging ten. Now that I could get into.
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#14404 - 04/07/06 02:39 AM Re: Climate Musings Spark Religious Brouhaha
Easy Life Offline
Member

Registered: 04/02/06
Posts: 45
Loc: Glasgow - Scotland
Did you think I wouldn't look through your links? Okay, let's stay focused. You were talking about the Jesus Myth being copycatted from older myths. Consensus now is that there are parallels but no strong evidence of copying. It isn't surprising the themes are found all over the place.

But back to my question...nice links about dinosaurs and stuff, but I was after scholars who maintain that Jesus (as you stated) was a reworking of earlier myths.

DA MORGAN...I presume by "credible scholar" you intend to just dismiss as not credible anyone that doesn't agree with you. Have at it. Start with the the lack of credibility of The British Museum.

Right, if you had pointed to any scholar at the British Museum who was backing your position...but you didn't. In fact from the BM site one of the articles they link to has the following regarding the Biblical Flood...

"In considering which came first, and thanks to the much later estimates of the Deluge by Biblical scholars, the account in Gilgamesh had been given the greatest credence, and scholars for some time have believed that the story of Noah had been borrowed in no small part from Sumerian legends. Now however, obscure references from other prehistoric cultures as well as its proximity to the hills surrounding Mount Ararat tended to favor the Black Sea Basin and therefore Noah's Flood as the story of greatest antiquity. "

OH DEAR!!

So can you post the 'HUNDREDS' of scholars who maintain that Jesus is nothing more than a reworking of earlier myths.

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#14405 - 04/07/06 02:52 AM Re: Climate Musings Spark Religious Brouhaha
Chaoslillith Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/05/06
Posts: 137
Read: Joseph Campbell's works. He has several books out and is considered the scholar having to do with Myth and Relgion. The book "The Hero with 1000 Faces" is quite on point for this discussion.

Here let me help you.
Sorry, I would give you more links but they are blocked at the work computer.
http://www.kirjasto.sci.fi/campb.htm

Or rent Power of Myth where Bill Moyers interviews Joseph Campbell for several hours.

I googled your question " jesus reworking of other myths " and got quite a few hits. Instead of asking why not research it yourself or is your study of Greco/Roman, Celtic, Buddhist, Egyptian and other civilzations that rusty. They all have deities that sacrificed themselves for mankind (Prometheus to name one). They all had death and resurrection themes, they all had savior motifs and many had huge floods, plagues and other such godly things.

Sheesh....

Oh and not to put too fine a point on it, the one thing that both pagan and mainstream religions have in common is this. Both have writings that those who worshipped those gods followed and none of them have any actual artifact proving beyond a doubt that they are correct. The one thing that the Bible has over say Bastet, is that the Bible was written in more recent times during and as such can reference the Romans and other historical certainties. Does this alone mean that Christianity is more correct? Nope, just more recent.

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#14406 - 04/07/06 10:27 PM Re: Climate Musings Spark Religious Brouhaha
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
Easy Life wrote:
"But back to my question...nice links about dinosaurs and stuff, but I was after scholars who maintain that Jesus (as you stated) was a reworking of earlier myths."

If you were you were wasting your time. I never said Jesus was a reworking. Rather that aspects of Jesus' life story as told in the New Testament are reworkings. Specifically the virgin birth, the wise men, and the resurrection.

Easy asks:
"So can you post the 'HUNDREDS' of scholars who maintain that Jesus is nothing more than a reworking of earlier myths."

I can but I won't. Because my point was to respond to your nonsense statement which was:
"No credible contemporary scholar (Christian or not) holds your position"

I proved that at least one does. You want hundreds go look them up yourself.

I find it fascinating that you make a statement that is clearly hyperbole and then when someone demonstrates that it is nothing but fluff you come back asking them to do a google search for you.

Gong!

You were wrong. Try demonstating something called integrity and admit it. Or is integrity out of favor with self-annointed Christians these days?
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DA Morgan

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#14407 - 04/08/06 12:01 AM Re: Climate Musings Spark Religious Brouhaha
Chaoslillith Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/05/06
Posts: 137
Ok then Easy,

The Jews were the slaves of the Egyptians but which race and their deities are actually older? There has yet to be an Arc of the Covenant found just as there has been no river Styx found therefore there is no real way of determining which race and therefore religion came first.

Religions all borrow from each other as races conquer each other. It is a way for the ruling power to subvert the prior authority of the conquered race or nation. The Romans stole the Greek Gods, the Christian put all their holidays on former pagan festivals (ask the Irish or ponder this; what do bunnies, eggs and chocolate have to do with Christ? Why do we have Xmas trees?). Mankind creates religion to explain the unexplainable, to give them power or hope when there is none, to give them an identity for a group, a set of rules to live by and an archtype which they can embrace to empower themselves. That is all religion is.

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#14408 - 04/08/06 05:34 PM Re: Climate Musings Spark Religious Brouhaha
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
It is generally accepted, though not proven, that Moses and his monotheism sprang from Ikhnaton.
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DA Morgan

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#14409 - 04/10/06 10:54 PM Re: Climate Musings Spark Religious Brouhaha
Archie Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/10/06
Posts: 5
Loc: Withdrawn due to unbridled stu...
So, sometime during a ten year period, which just happens to coincide with the period Jesus was in His ministry, the temperature around the Sea of Galilee dropped below freezing for two days or so. This, coupled with some saline water from natural springs caused water in the Sea of Galilee to freeze into ice. Not the whole lake, of course, just a bit near where the boat with Jesus' disciples were crossing the lake, and near where Jesus had to cross the lake on foot.

Jesus found this, by Himself, in the dark, and despite this being a solitary or at least unusual and isolated occurrence, decided this ice floe would enable Him to walk out to where the boat with the disciples were sailing. He managed to walk a considerable distance at night and not fall off the floe.

No one else noted the freezing conditions.

Then, when Peter gets in the water with Jesus, Peter makes no mention of how barking cold it is. When Peter either steps off or breaks through the ice floe and Jesus pulls Peter out of the water, the floe holds the weight of both men and they don't fall off the floe, successfully boarding the boat.

That's the version according to the research study. If nothing else, that is amazing in terms of timing and opportunity. I sure would not want to play poker with someone that lucky.
---------------------------------------------
Archie
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Withdrawn due to unbridled stupidity of posters

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#14410 - 04/11/06 03:36 AM Re: Climate Musings Spark Religious Brouhaha
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
The story about ice is as much nonsense as is the story of Jesus walking on water.

Now if Jesus had walked over the water ... that would have been far more interesting ... say 20-30 feet over it.
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DA Morgan

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#14411 - 04/11/06 02:40 PM Re: Climate Musings Spark Religious Brouhaha
soilguy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/28/05
Posts: 414
Loc: North Carolina
It's incredible that researchers at Florida State even spent five minutes thinking about this.
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When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
--S. Lewis

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#14412 - 04/11/06 05:19 PM Re: Climate Musings Spark Religious Brouhaha
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
I have been hoping Kate posted it as humor.
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DA Morgan

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