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#13977 - 03/17/06 07:06 PM Re: Existance of "Christ"
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
Those that "believe" don't let rational thinking ever interfere. Reminds me of the Roman Catholic church officially declaring a South American rodent to be a fish. The fact that it was an obvious lie never entered into it. After all, "god works in mysterious ways."
_________________________
DA Morgan

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#13978 - 03/17/06 08:38 PM Re: Existance of "Christ"
rlb60123 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 25
Dear DA

You are so retalitorial about the Existance of Christ. There is no "Proof" that he lived except affidavids from Testiments of men who should be considered "Unreliable" by atheists. Did the men who Wrote the "Gospel" actually exist? Did they tell outright lies? Did Buddha actually exist? Is there actual proof that Jesus Christ didn't Exist? Can you Prove he didn't? Is Josephus' writing accurate? Is it faulty?

You say...
Because those that do not oppose lies are collaborators. Those that sanction the brain washing of children are abusing the next generation. Any more such questions?

My answer is...
How is my beliefs or the beliefs of my children any of your concern? And "Collaborators" is some pretty accusatory language. There is no conspiracy here you know. "Abusing the next generation" how? I try to teach my children to look at all aspects of a problem, atheists ignore anything that might cause a problem to their view of reality. Closeminded attacks on any evidence that contradicts your view is NOT science, and has no place in science. You must be completely unbias in your quest to find truth, and atheists are some of the most bias people you can associate with. If Mathmaticians find that Genetic pathways couldn't be accidental, they are demonised as frauds by atheists who instantly look at the evidence as flawed. Is one Idea continually Right? In the Atheist world proof is in the Opinion, and not in facts.

Prove that there was never an individual in Jeudea between 10bc & 40ad who was Jesus Christ. I give a fairly wide window for 33 yrs of life, because there is no certainty when he was actually born, just like Cochise.

I have said this before, but I like saying it. If you are always correct in your own mind and never attempt to find whether you truly are correct, you are ignorant of the truth. Ony an openminded person, who allows for ANYTHING, can truly be objective. Show me an objective atheist and I will show you an agnostic.

One last thing. If every action has an opposite and equal reaction, what is the action that created intelligence, if evolution without guidance is correct? (Remember atheist, opposite and equal.)
Logic sux doesn't it.

I think to much I think.
rlb60123

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#13979 - 03/17/06 08:59 PM Re: Existance of "Christ"
rlb60123 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 25
Oops, should have said this before. Studying everything except for the Bible teaches you nothing about the Bible. Try reading it, whether you believe in "God" or not, the least you can say is that it is historic and some parts of it are actually quite beautiful. If my telling you to read and study the Bible is offensive, please give something offensive to me so that I might go through the same distaste as you. If you think it is just mythology, then Reading and studying the Bible is exactly like reading and studying the Iliad, or The Epic of Gilgamesh. If you just can't bring yourself to study the Bible, then you prove me right. And all atheists are nothing more than arrogantly closeminded half thinkers who waste hours every day hating what other people think.

p.s. You couldn't find anything to distasteful for me, so don't try. I keep an open mind, though I must admitt, at this minute, I am a stringent believer in GOD.

"those who are not against us are for us."

I think to much I think.
rlb60123

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#13980 - 03/17/06 09:39 PM Re: Existance of "Christ"
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
rlb wrote:
"You are so retalitorial about the Existance of Christ. There is no "Proof" that he lived except affidavids from Testiments of men who should be considered "Unreliable" by atheists."

So you would like the standard for pledging undying your life to someone to be lower than the standard accepted by your local municipal court for getting out of a parking ticket?

Maybe it is just me but before I swear an oath of allegiance to anything or any one I expect them to earn it and to meet certain burdens of proof that things are as advertised.

For you to claim that an atheist is someone that places a higher burden of proof on something than a Christian is equivalent to saying Christians are gulliable. Given the historical record perhaps you are correct. Either way I'll not drop my standards for the convenience of those hard of thinking.

rlb asks:
"How is my beliefs or the beliefs of my children any of your concern?"

Your beliefs are your own business. You can be as drunk, as moronic, or as intelligent as you wish. I don't worry about other people's vices until they intrude on my living my life.

What you do to children, however, is quite another matter. Having children does not give you the right to sexually abuse them. Having children does not give you the right to physically abuse them. Why should mental abuse (lying about hell and Satan) suffer a lower standard? Because it excuses you from responsibility? Tough!

rlb wrote:
"Prove that there was never an individual in Jeudea between 10bc & 40ad who was Jesus Christ."

Apparently you are hard of thinking. I have never disputed the birth and life of a normal mortal. That he did, or did not, live is irrelevant and no more important than John and Mary Doe who live down the street from you except that likely no one will start a war and kill millions disputing how best to worship them.

rlb asks:
"If every action has an opposite and equal reaction"

Are you serious? Did you learn science from a box of breakfast cereal? What is the equal and opposite reaction of a flower blooming or of two people falling in love?

rlb concludes:
"Logic sux doesn't it."

Perhaps some day you will experience it and have a different opinion.
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DA Morgan

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#13981 - 03/17/06 09:48 PM Re: Existance of "Christ"
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
rlb wrote:
"Studying everything except for the Bible teaches you nothing about the Bible. Try reading it, whether you believe in "God" or not, the least you can say is that it is historic and some parts of it are actually quite beautiful."

I have read it ... cover to cover ... multiple times. Who wrote it? When? In what language? You don't even know the original 10 commandments, 10 simple declarative sentences, and you think you can understand the rest of it? Good grief!

Ok lets take a look at this thing of beauty together.

Genesis 19

5. And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.

6. And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,

7. And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly,

8. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.

So handing over one's virgin daughters to a mob of men to do with as they please is a thing of beauty to you. Interesting.

No doubt you loudly applauded this passage too:

II Kings 2

23. And he went up from thence unto Beth-el; and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.

24. And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.

Mocking an old man certainly should be a capitol offense. And tearing children apart for doing so certainly the proper act of a good and loving god.

But wait ... here's something of other-worldly beauty that should inspire the faithful.

Judges 11

11:30 And Jephthah vowed a vow unto the LORD, and said, If thou shalt without fail deliver the children of Ammon into mine hands,

11:31 Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon,
shall surely be the LORD's, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering.

11:32 So Jephthah passed over unto the children of Ammon to fight against them; and the LORD delivered them into his hands.

11:33 And he smote them from Aroer, even till thou come to Minnith, even twenty cities, and unto the plain of the vineyards, with a very great slaughter. Thus the children of Ammon were subdued before the children of Israel.

11:34 And Jephthah came to Mizpeh unto his house, and, behold, his daughter came out to meet him with timbrels and with dances: and she was his only child; beside her he had neither son nor daughter.

11:35 And it came to pass, when he saw her, that he rent his clothes, and said, Alas, my daughter! thou hast brought me very low, and thou art one of
them that trouble me: for I have opened my mouth unto the LORD, and I cannot go back.

11:36 And she said unto him, My father, if thou hast opened thy mouth unto the LORD, do to me according to that which hath proceeded out of thy mouth; forasmuch as the LORD hath taken vengeance for thee of thine enemies, even of the children of Ammon.

11:37 And she said unto her father, Let this thing be done for me: let me alone two months, that I may go up and down upon the mountains, and bewail my virginity, I and my fellows.

11:38 And he said, Go. And he sent her away for two months: and she went with her companions, and bewailed her virginity upon the mountains.

11:39 And it came to pass at the end of two months, that she returned unto her father, who did with her according to his vow which he had vowed: and she knew no man. And it was a custom in Israel,

Yep. Murdering your child for god. What a noble thing to do. What a good thing. What a thing of beauty. What an enlightened way to thank god for letting you murder other people in his name. Makes me want to run out to a church right this second, throw myself on the floor in front of the alter. And cry for forgiveness for my multitude of sins.

ROFL.
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DA Morgan

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#13982 - 03/17/06 11:17 PM Re: Existance of "Christ"
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
Dan,

Genesis 19 - The Bible simply reports it. It does not condone it.

2 Kings 2 - I posted a long explananation of that passage for you. You probably didn't read it. I'll post it again so that you can not read it again ;-)

Judges 11 - Jephthah made a hasty and stupid vow and then stupidly carries it out, (although there is some debate about whether he killed her or set her apart for God and she remained unmarried - hence the bewailing virginity and 'she knew no man). Even so, the Bible reports it but does not condone the action.

Blacknad.

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#13983 - 03/17/06 11:18 PM Re: Existance of "Christ"
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
Just so you can ignore it a second time.

This is the story of the prophet Elisha calling down a curse upon some ?children?, forty-two of whom who were subsequently mauled by two she-bears. (The bears, Ursus Syriacus inhabited Palestine at the time). It is comfortably assumed that the passage is making the point that God sent the bears out, and that this was not just some bizarre coincidence.
In this instance it seems that God may not have torn children apart. The words used to describe the ?children?, (sometimes translated ?youths?), is translated from the Hebrew term ?neurim qetannim? which can best be understood in relation to how it is used elsewhere in the bible.

1. It was used to describe Isaac when he was in his twenties.
2. It was used to describe Joseph in Genesis 37:2 when he was seventeen.
3. It was used to describe soldiers in 1 Kings 20:14-15, who were up to the age of thirty.

The passage in 2 Kings 2:23-25 says forty-two males were mauled by two bears - it does not say whether there were any more present, but it is possible as it is likely that many ran away and escaped a mauling as the bears ravaged their way through the crowd.

So we have a crowd of over forty-two males, up to 30 years old, taunting a lone traveller who after performing a mercy mission in nearby Jericho was making his way through an area possibly very hostile to him as it was a centre of Baal worship. A religion that practiced child sacrifice, amongst other barbaric acts and was probably not entirely enamoured of the followers of Jehovah.

Now in my reading of the situation, Elisha was facing an angry mob and was possibly in serious danger.

There is also no way of knowing if the forty-two were actually killed, because the Hebrew word translated as mauled may easily indicate less serious injuries.

Regards,

Blacknad.

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#13984 - 03/18/06 07:41 AM Re: Existance of "Christ"
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
Blacknad ... thanks for coming out to play.

wrote:
"Genesis 19 - The Bible simply reports it. It does not condone it."

This is your testimony? Under oath? Are you sure you want to stick with it?

Lot and his family were saved? Why? That is the lesson of Genesis 19. God saved the good person and destroyed the evil people. Lot, by definition, is a good person. And the context is that just before that he gave his virgin daughters to be raped to save a man ... and we all know because a stranger, male, is more valuable than a female child. That is truly the meaning of the story when read in context.

Blacknad wrote:
"2 Kings 2 - I posted a long explananation of that passage for you. You probably didn't read it. I'll post it again so that you can not read it again"

I read it. And when I got done shaking my head in disbelief I went on about my life.

Blacknad wrote:
"Jephthah made a hasty and stupid vow and then stupidly carries it out"

And is equally stupidly rewarded by God for doing so. You are so heck-bent on defending the bible you forgot the point of my putting the text into my answer was the claim by rlb that it is beautiful. This, my friend, is bloody awful: It is not beautiful. And your explanation does not, can not, and will not, make it a thing of beauty: Ever!

The problem with your explanations, and each might be plausible if it stood in isolation, is that there are many hundreds of equally horrible goings on in the Bible. You can explain away one or two or ten ... but not all. The totality of the evidence is not a thing of beauty. Is the thing of which war crime tribunals in the Hague sit in judgement.
_________________________
DA Morgan

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#13985 - 03/21/06 06:47 PM Re: Existance of "Christ"
rlb60123 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 25
Dear DA,

You said and quoted...
"Genesis 19 - The Bible simply reports it. It does not condone it."

This is your testimony? Under oath? Are you sure you want to stick with it?

Lot and his family were saved? Why? That is the lesson of Genesis 19. God saved the good person and destroyed the evil people. Lot, by definition, is a good person. And the context is that just before that he gave his virgin daughters to be raped to save a man ... and we all know because a stranger, male, is more valuable than a female child. That is truly the meaning of the story when read in context."

You forgot that Abraham asked God to bring Lot out of the city. After Abraham asked that of God, he began debating about destroying the cities. Don't quote a small portion of the Bible and don't assume anything about my beliefs.

You also wrote: "What you do to children, however, is quite another matter. Having children does not give you the right to sexually abuse them. Having children does not give you the right to physically abuse them. Why should mental abuse (lying about hell and Satan) suffer a lower standard? Because it excuses you from responsibility? Tough!"
when I said: "How is my beliefs or the beliefs of my children any of your concern?"

So you are saying that my own children's beliefs are negligent? They believe their own thing I assure you.

I said: "One last thing. If every action has an opposite and equal reaction, what is the action that created intelligence, if evolution without guidance is correct? (Remember atheist, opposite and equal.)
Logic sux doesn't it."

If a unified theory is to be attained then Relativity must be taken into account when viewing Evolution. If you don't believe that then you muct not be looking for a theory of everything.

You say: "Why should mental abuse (lying about hell and Satan) suffer a lower standard?"

You know so much about the Bible, why don't you try finding hell in the Bible and define it...
Just because most "christians" don't take the time to find out that hell is just the grave doesn't mean that I haven't. In the Bible, when people are burned in Revelations in a lake of fire, that Lake comes from the throne of God. And if you read farther you find that the Throne of God is on earth. So the Fire that Consumes souls is on earth, and where God is. The Bible also says that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. That tells me that no one goes to a place called hell. Hell=Grave, tumb,coffin.

You sure can find the ugly parts of the Bible, and you sure can get offended by me telling you to read the Bible. But I still don't see you studying anything.

you say: "I have read it ... cover to cover ... multiple times. Who wrote it? When? In what language? You don't even know the original 10 commandments, 10 simple declarative sentences, and you think you can understand the rest of it? Good grief!"

The first commandment is "You shall have no Gods before me." Even atheists have a god they worship. It is themself, they edify it by insisting one thing, There is no God. I let them think what they please, even if they are closeminded.
BTW Jesus abbreviated the 10 commandments into 2
THe first is to "Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart mind soul ect." and the second is to "Love your neighbor as yourself." In that you will find the 10 commandments covered. But you knew that didn't you.

I think to much I think
rlb60123

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#13986 - 03/22/06 01:09 AM Re: Existance of "Christ"
Chaoslillith Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/05/06
Posts: 137
And this lovely, lively and enlightened conversation points out THE HUGE PROBELM with religion. IT IS ALL UP TO INTERPRETATION folks.

This is incredible really, three intelligent people not being able to agree on the facts of what was stated in a book due to translation and interpretation issues. This is why religion is so harmful, all of you think you are right and you are all right and wrong at the same time but all of you will fight to the bitter end about it.

Take that feeling, multiply and magnify it by millions of people and times and you get wars, atrocites and a lot of pain.

Thank you all for providing excellent proof why religion and beliefs are inherently corruptable and therefore a danger to society.

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#13987 - 03/22/06 04:20 AM Re: Existance of "Christ"
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
Quote:
Originally posted by Chaoslillith:
This is why religion is so harmful, all of you think you are right and you are all right and wrong at the same time but all of you will fight to the bitter end about it.

Take that feeling, multiply and magnify it by millions of people and times and you get wars, atrocites and a lot of pain.
This is simply not true. As I have stated (but will still not expect people to actually consider the implications) there are two billion Christians on this planet at the moment. That's TWO BILLION. If Christianity was inherently bloodthirsty, evil, warring, or fighting to the bitter end, then the planet would be in complete disarray.

Is this the case? No, the vast majority of Christians are simply going about their business trying to carry out Jesus message to do good in society.

Type the following into Google:

Christians help homeless

1,610,000 hits

The first page Google brings up has sentences like:

"I noticed that almost all homeless and non-profit help organisations, esp ones
that work with youth and drug abusers, are Christian based."

"Christians from all denominations and from all parts of England joined for a ...
A new campaign to help homeless people off the streets has been launched by"

"Students sleep out to help homeless. The students are focusing on the plight.
"As Christians, we feel that a vital part of our faith is to help those in ..."

"The movement to bring Christian recovery to the homeless is still very much in ..."

Now:

Christians help needy

1,410,000 hits

First page -

"Christians mobilise to help Nias quake victims indonesia"

"To encourage Christians to live out their faith by providing inspiring models
... I really want to help needy people in Africa and other places," she says."

"its 30th anniversary by partnering with Feed The Children to help needy in
Orlando ... ?The reason is as Christians we?re commanded to help the poor. ..."

"Yet those Christians are reaching out to bring help to their former persecutors.
... But help is now getting through to the needy. ..."

"American Christians help boost emergency funds of nearly 100 Israeli cities ...
clothing, basic household appliances and rent money for needy families, ..."


Now:

Christians help poor

13,400,000 Hits

First page includes -

"Christian politics that help poor children? Amen!"

"Helping Jewish poor in the former Soviet Union."

"This will directly help a poor family and the crafts make great gifts. ..."

"NATIONAL COUNCIL OF CHURCHES: 35 Christian traditions, 100000 congregations, ...
Love for the Poor To help the nation find consensus on fighting poverty, ..."

"Sponsor a child and help donate through charitable donations to World Vision.
Our child sponsorship programs need your support to help alleviate world ..."

"Practical ways Christians can help the poor in the US. view by date, view by topic"

"As an non-profit organization that seeks to help poor people improve their ...
Christians in North America are motivated by their faith to help poor people ..."

""Our focus is to help the poor and the grief-stricken victims, regardless of
their religion," he says. "Christians have shown 100 percent commitment. ..."


I could go on and on - try Christians help "aids victims".

The belief that Christianity in particular and religion in general is dangerous is utterly preposterous and without foundation.

We have our share of shame and embarrassment it is true, but the ongoing work of Christians amongst those needing to be served is absolutely immense.

It is only by a very ignorant and blinkered view of religion (and organized religion at that) that allows a person to consider that, on balance, religion is dangerous and deleterious to humanity.

I am usually cool headed and consider myself to be virtually unoffendable, but your statements and those of Dan's damning religion out of hand, really make me feel upset and a little angry (in the Ned Flanders tradition wink ).

You do an injustice to the many Christians I personally know who devote their lives to helping others, often at great personal cost.

Regards,

Blacknad.

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#13988 - 03/22/06 04:59 AM Re: Existance of "Christ"
Chaoslillith Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/05/06
Posts: 137
Was there a point to requoting me?


I do love to see my words in bold print though.

Sorry your post appeared before it was completed.

My apologies.

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#13989 - 03/22/06 05:14 AM Re: Existance of "Christ"
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
Blacknad wrote:
"If Christianity was inherently bloodthirsty, evil, warring, or fighting to the bitter end, then the planet would be in complete disarray."

And you don't think it is? You don't look at Belfast and see a problem? You don't look at the "loans" Tony Blair used to to corrupt British politics as anything other than good old Christian normality? Perhaps the rioting in France has escaped your notice. Or that nasty little thing that happened in Germany just before I was born. A couple of decades and it never happened? Would you like me to go on? There's some really juicy stuff going on in the Middle East too that seemingly has escaped your notice.

What is really sad is that you post something like this:

"Christians help homeless / 1,610,000 hits"

Don't you get it? Why were these people homeless in the first place? I am not even slightly impressed that someone is rescued from drowning by the same people that previously pushed them into the water.

I've heard this nonsense so many times before I just want to wretch. Helping Jews in the former Soviet Union? If it wasn't for the antisemitism they wouldn't have been poor would they? Don't get me started ... please.

Too late you did.

If you 2,000,000,000 Christians actually spent 30 days acting on the beliefs you profess none of this would be necessary in 2006. Where were the lot of you in 2005? 1905? 1805? 1705? 1605? 1505? 1405? 1305? 1205? 1105? 1005? 905? 805? 705? 605? 505? 405? 305?

Oh yeah ... you were violating each and every one of the 10 Commandments with a bloody vengence.
_________________________
DA Morgan

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#13990 - 03/22/06 05:23 AM Re: Existance of "Christ"
Chaoslillith Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/05/06
Posts: 137
EEEK!!

Ok gents, settle down.

I will provide a bit of neutrality here. Christians do provide many useful services to the poor and needy.

Christians also perpetrate a lot of evil in the world. I feel, however, that organized religion, not just Christianity, holds in it's power a great corrupting influence. I cannot say if the world would be different if there had never been religion as I am sure the bad people would still find ways to be bad but without the ability to say "God says we should do this" I think there would have been a lot less pain and suffering.

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#13991 - 03/22/06 05:29 AM Re: Existance of "Christ"
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
"The statement that wars have been fought in the name of God is a non squitur. As the theologian Walter Wink once pointed out, more people have died in the twentieth century?s secular wars than in the preceding fifty centuries of fighting combined?. No religious war in history, not all the religious wars of history added together, did as much damage as this century?s wars of nationalism and ideology. So if we are to ban religious sentiment from public life because it has been responsible for so much horror, let us not forget to ban advocacy of freedom or justice as well."

?Stephen L. Carter, Civility (1998), p. 252

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#13992 - 03/22/06 05:31 AM Re: Existance of "Christ"
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
Chaoslillith - "Sorry your post appeared before it was completed.

My apologies."

- No probs. I pushed Add Reply by mistake and then had to go back and edit it. I was hoping no one was online smile

Regards,

Blacknad.

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#13993 - 03/22/06 07:56 AM Re: Existance of "Christ"
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
Lillith wrote:
"Christians do provide many useful services to the poor and needy."

And I agreed. But a bit of intellectual integrity is required here. They wouldn't be needing to help the poor and needy if there were no poor and needy.

They've had 2,000 years to make a dent in the problem. Nowhere on the planet is there any evidence that they have succeeded.

And I agree, as I've stated before, that without religion things would be no better than they are now: But also no worse.

Blacknad quoted Stephen Carter. But Carter was wrong. 6,000,000 Jews did not die of sectarian violence. They were exterminated by Christians due to their religion. A for Carter to quote a theologian is the moral equivalent of a racist quoting the Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan. By definition the source of the quote is biased to a specific conclusion.
_________________________
DA Morgan

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#13994 - 03/22/06 10:18 PM Re: Existance of "Christ"
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
Dan wrote - "What is really sad is that you post something like this:

"Christians help homeless / 1,610,000 hits"

Don't you get it? Why were these people homeless in the first place? I am not even slightly impressed that someone is rescued from drowning by the same people that previously pushed them into the water.

I've heard this nonsense so many times before I just want to wretch. Helping Jews in the former Soviet Union? If it wasn't for the antisemitism they wouldn't have been poor would they? Don't get me started ... please."

-------------------------------------------------------------

- Can you expand upon these two points please?

Please explain how Christians are responsible for the homeless.

Please explain how Christians were responsible for anti-semitism in the atheistic former Soviet Union.

"Lenin initiated repressions against the Jewish Labor Bund in order to consolidate Bolshevik influence over all other left-wing and labor movements."

Anti-semitism in the Soviet Union was both a political affair and an anti-religious affair. Please explain how Christians were responsible for this.

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#13995 - 03/22/06 10:39 PM Re: Existance of "Christ"
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
Dan,

The fact that you are so incredibly biased against Christianity and can allow for no good to come from it is telling.

The fact that you want to wretch when presented by reasonable evidence that Christians actually today make a positive contribution to the world as well as a negative one is telling.

I have lost faith in your ability to present a reasonable argument against Christianity when you deny out of hand something that has been my constant experience of authentic Christianity.

Your view of Christianity is so blinkered I find it shocking. You seem to lay every evil at its door and allow for no good whatsoever.

This is an unbalanced argument and comes from someone who obviously has an emotional dislike of Christianity and does everything possible to intellectually rationalise that dislike.

Your unstoppable onslaught might be more reasonable and even persuasive if you took a slightly less one sided view.

Blacknad.

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#13996 - 03/22/06 10:52 PM Re: Existance of "Christ"
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
Dan wrote - "Blacknad quoted Stephen Carter. But Carter was wrong. 6,000,000 Jews did not die of sectarian violence. They were exterminated by Christians due to their religion. A for Carter to quote a theologian is the moral equivalent of a racist quoting the Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan. By definition the source of the quote is biased to a specific conclusion."


REP: First, are you actually talking about the Nazi Holocaust? I presume not because...

"The Nazis believed that Germans were "racially superior" and that there was a struggle for survival between themselves and "inferior races." Jews, Roma (Gypsies) and the handicapped were seen as a serious biological threat to the purity of the "German (Aryan) Race" and therefore had to be "exterminated." The Nazis blamed the Jews for Germany's defeat in World War I, for its economic problems and for the spread of Communist parties throughout Europe."

- Humanitas International.

And damning Stephen L Carter for quoting a theologian may be a useful way of getting out of dealing with the content, but I would much rather see you actually respond to the charge being made.


Regards,

Blacknad.

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