Welcome to
Science a GoGo's
Discussion Forums
Please keep your postings on-topic or they will be moved to a galaxy far, far away.
Your use of this forum indicates your agreement to our terms of use.
So that we remain spam-free, please note that all posts by new users are moderated.


The Forums
General Science Talk        Not-Quite-Science        Climate Change Discussion        Physics Forum        Science Fiction

Who's Online Now
0 members (), 301 guests, and 0 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Latest Posts
Top Posters(30 Days)
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
#13321 11/24/05 01:19 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 44
R
Ric Offline
Member
Offline
Member
R
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 44
Quote:
Originally posted by Philege:
Rob by the way, there are other universes outside our universe. Check out Space.com so there is something not nothing.
You have conclusive proof of this? Show me where it is written for a fact that there are definaltey other universes outside our own.


"The first Human who hurled an insult instead of a stone was the founder of civilization." -Sigmund Freud
.
#13322 11/24/05 10:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 184
P
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
P
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 184
Originally posted by Philege:
Rob by the way, there are other universes outside our universe. Check out Space.com so there is something not nothing.

Can't you read Space.com

#13323 11/24/05 10:04 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 184
P
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
P
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 184
Sorry that was for Ric

#13324 11/27/05 12:54 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 636
J
jjw Offline
Superstar
Offline
Superstar
J
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 636
Blacknad
Member
Member # 352

Posted November 18, 2005

How close to the sun would the earth have to be to decrease the length of a year by a factor of ten?

Regards,

Blacknad.

This is interesting because I have read stuff suggesting that the explanation for the extreme life lines expressed in Genesis was due to a different location of the Earth in orbit around the sun and/or that they were calculating the year by the Moon?s orbit. Neither idea will suffice to give us any result that would account for the numbers if we assume that man?s years ?will number 72? or if we assume that the 930 years for Adam can be divided by 10 to be rational. I have, in the distant past, worked over all of the life lines shown quite a bit and I am still ignorant of a reasonable numerical interpretation. For our discussion we could start by giving Adam 930 ?real? years in comparison to what we have now and suggest that implies a year of 36.525 days. The planets orbits do show some straight line simplistic reduction and in this instance Earth would require an orbit average of about 9,300,486.3 miles radius to produce an orbital velocity of 58.5 miles per second sufficient to give Earth a year of 36.525 days. The curious part being that the new orbit is the current orbit divided by about 10. Working the numbers with the Moon as the measure will not work either. It goes with out need for elaboration that all other factors being equal Earth would be less than a third of the distance from the Sun that Mercury currently enjoys and hot, hot, hot. This area of the numbers is still of interest to me when free time permits.

If any of you are interested you can work some interest into the numbers by such as the following: For Earth day comparisons with other planets,

The difference in the orbit velocity of Earth divided by the planets orbital velocity cubed, will give you a number that represents the difference in Earth days in the other planet?s orbit.
Jupiter is 4337/365.25 = 11.87. 18.5/8.11 (ov) = 2.2811 mps ^3 = 11.87.

jjw

#13325 11/27/05 03:03 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 636
J
jjw Offline
Superstar
Offline
Superstar
J
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 636
Sorry members:

I made an error in my offer of the required orbit for Earth to have 36.525 days in it. I have been called to dinner so correction must wait.
jjw

#13326 11/27/05 01:30 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4
P
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
P
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4
hi guys
I have to say something regarding evolution and intelligent design. I think evolution could itself be a part of the intelligent design and we need not disregard any of the two. Consider a computer generated programme where characters are programmed to evolve with time, it incorporates both design and evolution.
Also consider that we percieve a limited time-space, and that time is not absolute.It started with big bang (if there was one)and will cease to exist with the universe. Evolution belongs to our space-time ofcourse but a large portion of the bigger design could well be outside its purview. So, we can't just put aside Genesis and intelligent design.


physic
#13327 12/03/05 05:17 AM
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2
M
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
M
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2
I believe it's possible to make something out of nothing, especially if that is done by intelligence higher than ours. For our limited understanding of something and nothing can in no way set rules or boundaries about what is possible or impossible.

The main reason I found this thread, was a post above where someone mentioned that Genesis 2 declares there was no rain.

I studied that section back in the 1980s, and realized that Genesis 2 is talking about something different altogether. It's explaining exactly how it rained within it's own vocabulary. The terminology is consistent with other verses.

Feel free to read the notes on this page:

SCROLL DOWN A WAYS ON THIS PAGE FOR THE RAIN AND MIST IN GENESIS PART

You should see an earth .gif image or even animated if your browser has that enabled. It's most of the way down the page.


mdvaden
To contact - frame my signature with www. and .com
#13328 12/18/05 09:44 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 636
J
jjw Offline
Superstar
Offline
Superstar
J
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 636
mdvaden states:

?I believe it's possible to make something out of nothing, especially if that is done by intelligence higher than ours. For our limited understanding of something and nothing can in no way set rules or boundaries about what is possible or impossible?

jjw rep: This statement implies that the only reason we can not make something out of nothing is that we are not intelligent enough. Are you substituting intelligence for the required raw material? If so, will you be a little less intelligent after we make something that used this extra intelligence you had. You must be thinking in terms of faith. Even Jesus Christ and other Prophets normally had some thing to start with. Make a lot of fish from a few. Make a lot of wine from a little bit of wine, and so on. I do not agree with the feats but I gave them credit for being aware of the requirements of physics.

Your other point as to whether a ?Mist? is the equivalent of rain is noted. Why do so many Bible believers want to change the wording or the meaning of the wording from what is written in the Bible?
jjw

#13329 12/25/05 06:05 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 560
R
RM Offline OP
Superstar
OP Offline
Superstar
R
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 560
?I believe it's possible to make something out of nothing, especially if that is done by intelligence higher than ours. For our limited understanding of something and nothing can in no way set rules or boundaries about what is possible or impossible?

Limited understanding? What's to understand? Something is the presence of something, no matter how big or small; nothing is the abscence of anything. Just because we can't visualise nothing, or everything, it doesn't mean we have a limited understanding of it. We understand what it is, that's what's important.

#13330 03/10/06 10:27 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5
I
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
I
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5
I wouldnt rule it out, I mean all that stuff about aborigonies acheiving a state of mind where they visualise the stoping of time and visualise life being created, and then wake up and a low and behold a thousand years later the animals they visualised appear, through evolutionary change because the vibration of their thaughts effected the genetics and molecules and spiritually guided evolution. they say the earth was created in a dream, its possible, if you imagine the vibrations of energy created from the thaughts expanding through the universe and bouncing back to manifest them selves in physical forms. the universe is only a small part , time declares that there are an infinate number of univervses, without time it is finate, the whole thing is called the infiniverse or "omega" which is all that is light, it is also a spirit in its self, but it does not serve a purpose for living other than life its self in total blackness next to the alpha, and other elements for life to exist but on a super large scale, in a black nothing. god himself does beleive in evolution, he just modifies it, with his vibrational thaughts. you can exist out side your body, a spirit is like all your electrons in your body leaving the dead flesh, but never forgeting their identity. the reason god says that we shouldnt eat pork is because of genetic transmition, it will effect our evolution. In the begining all men were black and there was a land that is now sunken below sea level called lemeuria, mu and other names, over the years the tide covered it gradually all you sea of it it now is the philopines and madagascar. when the black man moved to the north west, he ate the pork and over thousands of years there was a genetic tranmision that turned his skin to the same colour of the pigs, ever hear the phrase you are what you eat. the difrent races evolved from the genetic transmition from the food they were eating. Aparently during the dreamtime before time its self was allowed to begin some of the animals started to dispease the gods and change their forms, such as the platypus, and the bat who was a rat and wanted wings and changed himself quickly before the gods started time. as for your question rob, I know you think my ideas are far fetched, but I do think that ifinity only exists if time exists, because it takes time to think of the eternal you will never acheive you conciousness to becaume focused on it. Science is very rational and acheives the answer halfway, but still leaves questions unanswered. the religion is very unrational but answers the remaining questions. but remember were talking about the rationalities of an inferior species, "man", even einstein himself beleived in god, even charles darwin, knew deep down there was something we couldnt see guiding it. because it would ake alot more than mere chance for simple worm like microorganism to eventually evolve into something as deliberatley beutiful as say a macaw, a dinosaur. if you ask me the question I think that everybody is wrong and the aboriginies created the dream and the evolution took place because of mental will, of the dreamers, as their thaughts vibrated through the universe while speaking in tongues and playing the didgerie doo and bounced from the edge back again the thaughts built more and more energy and became into existance at a later time. God did not start out as a superior being, he himself started as a man, and the alpha and omega and everything else are a microcosm of something else, maybe there are many infiniverses, like electrons in a biger soul a level up, maybe in each elecotron within us is a solar sytem, and maybe it all never ends. because for matter to exist it must be made of particals, and for them to exist there are mico particals that we can't see with an electron microscope because those particals are microcosms of electrons, and so on, we could keep going and shifing our focus onto microcosms of microcosms of microcosms and wed find the pattern repeats, and we would find our infiniverses in each subatomic partical, and find out the largest living matter in the universe we know is just an electron in another being who doesnt even know we exist. I beleive science identifies the problem, but god can help it, no scientist in the world is capable of wishing the clouds away, unless he creats a gianourmous jet engine with inbuilt dynamo and electric sparks to destroy it, with fission, or maybe he could fission the ice caps, ot the waters to rise the sunken lands if you really wanna save the world ask god, because he can dream up the future and make it a reality, the real problem is attracting gods attention, its a bit like an electron in your finger trying to tell you theres **** goin on in your planet, but of course you dont even know that the elctron even exists, thats what god is, hes capable but its not like he can shrink himself to becaume smaller than the electron in his hand and sort that electron out, its impossible, thats why its hard for god.

paul

#13331 03/10/06 11:25 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,136
D
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
D
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,136
Maytey wrote:
"I wouldnt rule it out, I mean all that stuff about aborigonies acheiving a state of mind where they visualise the stoping of time and visualise life being created, and then wake up and a low and behold a thousand years later the animals they visualised appear, through evolutionary change because the vibration of their thaughts effected the genetics and molecules and spiritually guided evolution."

You've really got to stop smokin' crack: It messes with your brain.

If you attended school, even grades K-6, and came away with the above understanding of reality I suggest you march back into the principal's office and demand the education you were cheated out of.
If, on the other hand the rest of the students who attended are not similarly lacking in the ability to put one thought in front of another perhaps you should learn to say "Do you want fries with that."


DA Morgan
#13332 03/11/06 10:43 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5
I
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
I
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 5
whats the point in reciving an education bye man when you can get one from god, you know can't couldnt returne here and do miracles if he wanted to because it would mean his powers would be taken away by the vibrational eneries of ever skeptic on earth. hed create a bird and as soon as he turned his eye it would dissapear, why can't ya listen to the aborigonies and all the other acient cultures for a change, if they can can produce maps of tropical antartica, and of sunken lands, and they get proven because there are monuments under the sea bed. why can't you guys possible accept the idea of another dimention where there are spirits??? who have influence, I mean why do you guys have to force your backward veiws on the whole planet, and fill it with skeptasism, it hasnt got us very far has it. its a **** hole and with out gods help its going to die, and everyone knows it, when will god return, it be better if he take the body of an intelligent monkey because monkeys dont ask questions, why dont he just get all his angels to possess new born babies, and fill the planet with men who master. why doesnt he use mind control over the great satans, the leaders of the countries, why doesnt he cause a flood, and let the nature loving indians rule the planet, that is full of all the extinct species, why doesnt he get rid of all evil thaugh in the eyes of man, why doesnt he expand his conciousness to fill up the earth and everthing in it, and let the tides fall, the ice caps freeze, the ozone seal, let the arragant civilisation be destroyed by earth quakes, he wont destroy man because hes too good, but everyone knows man is the adopted child of lucifer, the liar. everyone knows that man wont beleive anything not even god. even if it means the good ones dying it would still be worth it, I'd rather sacrifise the whole of man, on this planet for his destruction and leave only a few good ones behind, guide all the animals to the mountain tops, and have a flood, than let this corrupted, aragant, disbeleiving, self pleasuring, blind man that laughs at the idea of the creator rule the earth, man is discusting, hes becaume like lucifer was, okay so have I but I was mentally controlled, but thats diffrent. I hope the sun is healed up, and that he forgives me, I love the sun, but when I went off focus the demonic energy took over me, I hear it say you will give your power to satan, and that the crow will kill the doves, and it drives me to think it. If I knew what I was doing and had power oer it, and cut off myy soul tie too it, I wouldnt do it. I took the shape of a easter island rock man and ate the sun like and orange, I hope hes alrighte. tell him to forgive me, I love him, I know hes not permamently damaged, hes a spirit, but I wouldnt want to go through that much pain, give him a treat and make him feel good, to compensate the suffering. I'm so sorry, I'm new to this, being a new size and all, but I will get there, it will never happen again, I'd rather be controlled by god the almighty, and have him work through me, and control my thaughts os they becaume good. next time in the revelations maybe the pig can have armour around it, so it can be uneatable and let him have bigger teeth, and stronger legs, and maybe, dovenburds lory , the brown and yellow one could have nicer plumage, the dodo be bigger and stronger and more intelligent as a reward. the great and sacred rain forrests be protected by rocky mountainous walls, with lions living on to guard it, the tree of knowlege of good and evil be placed on a small island sorrounded by rocky shallows so no boat can reach it. place a punishemnt on the murderers and disbeleivers that the lions eat them, tell man that if he ever kill a lion in his punishment, he will be reincarnated as a new creature a smaller kind of lion, with a red mark to mark the blood of the dead lion and to be attracted to preadators, and call it redemention cat, let the redemtion cat have to survive where the lions live, when the the redemtion cat dies lt him be a man again, born into his origonal tribe, just as he would of been, remove his judgement. place marks on the earth to remind man of yourself, and the scriptures, show man how he came to be, and teach him the lessons of the "sickness time" during the industrial revolution, teach him the lessons of the smoky black country, that was once lush green feilds, give man photos of the "sickness time", the hollocaust the nuclear energy, the pollution. let man learn how his world became restored, give me a name like, paul the messenger, he was a music spirit with good and bad in him, who lived in the black (dead) country, who was good and bad black and white, a ying yang spirit. who tried to take over the omega because of his compulsive flaws, and was blinded by satan and saw the sun as an orange and ate of it, but paul had his good points, he invented a machine for evil spirits, and ruined spirits to be recreated and he also invented imunity to a satanic desease. paul was helper of music of the soul. Paul was redemptius and remorseful, In the new world let there be a huge limestone where my house was, let it be sorrounded by glorius jungles. let the rock be known as paul the messenger let it represent a man who was split in two, good and evil, let me be a symbol of the corruptness of the end time of old man, but also the phase of the calling of the almighty creator, master of worlds. let my story be a lesson in the history of creation. also let me be spiritually worked on so I am incapable of evil and let me be apointed as an angel, and call me just paul the messenger, the caller, and let me be in charge of the destruction of sinful knowlege and let me be also known as the caller of tallent, the gateway between good and evil, he he, know but it would be a great Idea!!!!!

Paul

#13333 03/12/06 02:14 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,136
D
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
D
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,136
Maytey asks:
"why can't ya listen to the aborigonies and all the other acient cultures for a change"

Oh I don't know. Maybe just some strange desire to live my own life without being prosletyzed by Christians, Do-Gooders, Feeble Minded Fluffniks, and the rest of those that don't have a life of their own.

Here's my suggestion: Give away everything you own, buy a round-trip ticket to some primitive region of the planet. No doubt you can find what you are looking for somewhere in Brazil, the Kalahari, Malaysia, or the Australian outback.

Then live the life you are trying to sell to others for one year without deviation. Then come back and tell us about why we should listen to them.

BTW: Try not to get even the slightest infection. We want you to live long enough to return with your report.

To sell to others what you have never experienced is hypocrisy.

Note: Yes I have lived in a third-world country for a year. So I'm not asking you to do something I've not already done myself.


DA Morgan
#13334 03/12/06 02:56 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 137
C
Senior Member
Offline
Senior Member
C
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 137
Thank you Amaranth. for pointing out something that posters from other countries may not be aware of. I am aware that news coverage in other countries is much more accurate than the USA's but I wanted to point out why some of us logic based types go into hysterics when religion is brought up.

We have school districts that have legislated the teaching of creation theory as science, we have an administration that when all else fails relies on religios zealots to push their twisted and sociopathic agenda.

I cannot speak for others here but I know that it scares and sickens me to see our current and future education system being sacrificed for the viewpoint of a few.

Hence, although I really have no issue with the message of Christ and I fully commend and respect the groups of nuns and priests who have done more good than harm; I will forever despise organized religion. It always has been and always will become a tool for perverted politicians.

#13335 03/12/06 12:50 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Maytey:
Please limit yourself to comments with some discernible scientific content. This is not "ramble-on-a-go-go" and if you post any more long winding stream of consciousness posts I will censor you as Moderator. Get with the science or go play somewhere else.

Amaranth Rose
Moderator

#13336 03/12/06 07:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,136
D
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
D
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,136
Lillith wrote:
"I cannot speak for others here but I know that it scares and sickens me to see our current and future education system being sacrificed for the viewpoint of a few."

It sickens me too. And to the point of just wanting to give up and get out. I continue to teach at the university but must acknowledge that a large percentage of my students are not US citizens. Rather they are citizens of other countries that have a far greater appreciation of the value of education. I fear my country is well on its way to a decline based primarily upon an ignorance of the lessons of history and a culture that values neither education nor a sense of history.

Lillith wrote:
"I will forever despise organized religion. It always has been and always will become a tool for perverted politicians."

Organized religion is nothing but a tool of the rich and powerful used to control the masses. It has been that way at least since Sumeria and certainly continues to this day with poignant examples too numerous to recount.

Those that buy Jesus Christ or the Mohammed in the shrink-wrapped container are the same people that think a BMW is a luxury car and that Tide makes your clothes whiter and brighter.

PS: Go Rose ... go go go!


DA Morgan
#13337 03/12/06 11:06 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A
Thank you, Dan. Now that I'm back with a working computer I'll try to stay more on top of things. Meanwhile I'm working on a bad case of computer withdrawal. Got any single malt left?

#13338 03/12/06 11:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,136
D
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
D
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,136
A wonderful bottle of Abelour.

But fear not. I am heading back to the Cotswolds and Wales in May and no doubt will find a duty-free shop or a side-trip to Scotland somewhere.


DA Morgan
#13339 03/13/06 12:06 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 901
B
Superstar
Offline
Superstar
B
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 901
Dan,

I live next door to the Cotswolds. A beautiful place.

I'd ask to meet up for a drink, but then I'm sure you couldn't imagine anything less inviting smile

Anyway, enjoy your time here.

Blacknad.

#13340 03/13/06 05:09 AM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,136
D
Megastar
Offline
Megastar
D
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,136
Actually I might just take you up on it as long as we don't have to drink that rot you call beer.

I will be in Burford and Great Barrington beginning the night of the 17th. Are you anywhere in the environs? I'll be taking the train down from the West Midlands.

And just to shake you up a bit ... plan to move to the area in 2007. Possibly Stow.

But to get back on topic ... you would fit in really well in an American red-state which from my perspective you should find quite insulting. ;-) Yep you'd make a right regular American with attitudes such as yours. I thought the British education system more capable.


DA Morgan
Page 2 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Link Copied to Clipboard
Newest Members
debbieevans, bkhj, jackk, Johnmattison, RacerGT
865 Registered Users
Sponsor

Science a GoGo's Home Page | Terms of Use | Privacy Policy | Contact UsokW
Features | News | Books | Physics | Space | Climate Change | Health | Technology | Natural World

Copyright © 1998 - 2016 Science a GoGo and its licensors. All rights reserved.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5