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#13301 - 11/16/05 01:39 PM genisis is NOT possible
RM Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 560
Loc: London
I have to know; how many people here believe it is possible to make something out of nothing?

ps. You can't post polls around here.

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#13302 - 11/16/05 05:00 PM Re: genisis is NOT possible
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
Rob,

You seem to have an obsession about nothing smile

Regards,

Blacknad.

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#13303 - 11/16/05 05:05 PM Re: genisis is NOT possible
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
Rob,

And regards Genesis not being possible - if you mean the Biblical account of creation, many Christians accept that it is a story designed to communicate truths about creation and our relationship to it - and not a scientific account of how it happened.

Regards,

Blacknad.

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#13304 - 11/16/05 07:13 PM Re: genisis is NOT possible
Anonymous
Unregistered


Blacknad,
The situation is much different in the USA. Just the other day I was accosted on the street by a man who said he was the pastor of a fundamentalist church in the local area that teaches "The Bible, the whole Bible, and nothing but the Bible". Needless to say I turned down his invitation to pay his church a visit. But his attitude is typical of the highly fundamentalist attitudes of certain people here. It is this which we are at odds with. These people would have Genesis taught at science classes and given equal time with evolution or instead (which they would really prefer). It is this type of religious fervor which many of us cope with on a daily basis here. Is it any wonder the forum gets edgy when it sticks its head in the door and shouts?

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#13305 - 11/16/05 08:57 PM Re: genisis is NOT possible
dirtydog Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 5
Loc: NYC
You can make something out of nothing if you swipe one of a pair of virtual photons and let the other one go....i.e. hawkings radiation arises from quantum fluctuations of the "nothingness", were one gets "eaten" by a black hole.

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#13306 - 11/16/05 09:07 PM Re: genisis is NOT possible
Philege Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/30/04
Posts: 184
Loc: United Kingdom
Nothing, is the absence of something, therefore it must be possible to make something from nothing. If it were not possible then how do we exist. Our physical being must not be compared to God, for God is not at all like us.

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#13307 - 11/16/05 09:24 PM Re: genisis is NOT possible
dirtydog Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/16/05
Posts: 5
Loc: NYC
"Our physical being must not be compared to God, for God does not like us at all." - Philege

wow! must be that OT god.

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#13308 - 11/16/05 09:27 PM Re: genisis is NOT possible
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
Amaranth,

I would want them to explain how God created Night and Day in Genesis Ch 3 and then a few days later on created the Sun and Moon - Ch 16.

Regards,

Blacknad.

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#13309 - 11/16/05 09:42 PM Re: genisis is NOT possible
Philege Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/30/04
Posts: 184
Loc: United Kingdom
Blacknad, I will answer that one for you. To undertsand what night and day means in the Biblical context, then you must refer to John Chapter one, where light and darkness are discussed. (i.e. day and night) When God said let there be light, that was not the light from the sun, that was the light of the world i.e. Jesus being created. Also read the final Chapter of Revelation for clarification of the same night and day. For night will no longer exist i.e. the devil

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#13310 - 11/17/05 12:09 AM Re: genisis is NOT possible
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
Thanks Philege,

I think many Christians would not agree that Jesus was created in any sense like that. But I am speaking from ignorance - I have not looked at Genesis in the Hebrew for a good while.

My point remains that Genesis doesn't claim to be a science textbook and we do ourselves no favours when we use it to try and argue against evolution.

Regards,

Blacknad.

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#13311 - 11/17/05 09:41 PM Re: genisis is NOT possible
Philege Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/30/04
Posts: 184
Loc: United Kingdom
There are many things in the Bible that are difficult to understand, however as I said before the Bible is spiritually discerned. I'll give an example, you know in Genesis Adam and Eve and their descendants lived up to eight or nine hundred years of age. Now this may not make sense to most people until you realise that according to ancient scriptures, the earth was once much nearer to the sun. It therefore stands to reason that the earth went around the sun much faster, therefore the years were much shorter, therefore mankind appeared to live longer. Another clue that the earth was once nearer to the sun is actually in the Bible itself. If one reads Genesis, you will read that in those days there was no rain, there was only a mist which rose from the ground. Also plant life thrived because of the conditions. The closeness of the earth to the sun disabled the process of rain. In Genesis we also read about giant animals roaming the earth. There is also a psalm which talks about the 'circle of the earth' proclaiming the earth to be round long before man realised this. So I disagree with you that we cannot learn evolution from the Bible. The bible is actually a history book, of the Jewish people and traces their development from the time of Abraham until the distant future. Everything that happened to the Jews was predicted in the Bible, some events are still unfolding today. The secret is, buy a Bible, pray to God for understanding before you start reading and you will be amazed to see the reasoning unfolding before your eyes. Try it, and see.

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#13312 - 11/18/05 08:29 AM Re: genisis is NOT possible
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
How close to the sun would the earth have to be to decrease the length of a year by a factor of ten?

Regards,

Blacknad.

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#13313 - 11/21/05 08:34 AM Re: genisis is NOT possible
RM Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 560
Loc: London
no, no, no. Nothing biblical. I thought the definition of genisis was 'to make something out of nothing,.

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#13314 - 11/21/05 08:35 AM Re: genisis is NOT possible
RM Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 560
Loc: London
Philege, shut up.

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#13315 - 11/21/05 08:42 AM Re: genisis is NOT possible
RM Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 560
Loc: London
Here's a good question; assuming that outside the universe there is nothing (don't THINK so, but anyway...) does nothing inhabit infinity or does infinity inhabit nothingness? hmmm...

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#13316 - 11/21/05 11:07 PM Re: genisis is NOT possible
Philege Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/30/04
Posts: 184
Loc: United Kingdom
Rob, how do you manage to hang on to three stars, I am certain you have multiple registerings to keep giving yourself five stars!

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#13317 - 11/21/05 11:10 PM Re: genisis is NOT possible
Philege Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/30/04
Posts: 184
Loc: United Kingdom
Rob by the way, there are other universes outside our universe. Check out Space.com so there is something not nothing.

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#13318 - 11/21/05 11:13 PM Re: genisis is NOT possible
jjw Offline
Superstar

Registered: 09/07/05
Posts: 636
Loc: USA
For this discussion I will play the adversaries part.

You think that Genesis is impossible, and I think that you think that, because you do not understand what you think you are reading. When the Bible recites that in ?the beginning God created the Heaven and the Earth? that is not saying that it was created from nothing. If I tell you I made a chair would you think that I made it out of thin air ? nothing? There is nothing as deeply mysterious as you all seem to think. When the Bible recites that God created light and may later refer to the Sun that is intended to acknowledge that light existed before our Sun was created (the Universe with lots of light) and the Sun was created specifically for the Earth. Before you dump something you should try to interpret what is being offered. Actually, if you substitute Gravitation for God in Genesis you will do well until you get to the creation of life forms.

Some people read the Bible and revere every word as the word of God. It is clear that the Bible did not intend that result for if it was intended there was no need for God, The Lord and The Lord God as used through out the book. Words are very valuable assets to be used and understood for specific meanings and the Bible, somewhat like Shakespeare did in his time, was very careful with much of the wording. I spent many hours reading the bible in an effort to decipher some of the content that I felt had special meaning. This has nothing to do with the ?Bible Code? as more recently touted and it had/has nothing to do with any religious dependence the Bible was intended to satisfy. There are some basic life guidelines of merit and some horror stories as well.

I am in the desert now and do not have any of my notes on the Bible content that I felt was of interest. If I think of it I will bring some along here next time we make the round trip to the beach area.
jjw

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#13319 - 11/22/05 10:52 AM Re: genisis is NOT possible
RM Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 560
Loc: London
"there are other universes outside our universe"

I know that, well, i strongly believe that, but no-one else here seems to. Anyhow it's a fun question to think about.

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#13320 - 11/22/05 10:38 PM Re: genisis is NOT possible
Chris Maxwell Offline
Member

Registered: 10/10/05
Posts: 26
Loc: UK
But then Rob does this not make you realize just how magnificently immense God is?

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