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Philege, if you can't keep a calm, rational outlook and actually discuss Science, I will have to bar you from the Forum. Your histrionics and cursing are not appropriate and I have edited three of your messages tonight. Please do heed my warning.

"Amaranth"

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If he existed ... if he could ... he would.

But you might wish to apply some critical thinking skills before you condemning me to burn at the stake.

If your god exists then:

1. Your god created satan
2. Your god created me in his image
3. Your god gave me the critical thinking skills by which I point out that he is evil incarnate
4. Your god created the mistakes and bungling I point to such as errors in DNA coding
5. Your god created polio, anthrax, smallpox, malaria, and childhood leukemia
6. Your god killed every person on this planet except the members of one family including newborn innocent children
7. Your god killed every first-born male in an entire country including newborn innocent children
8. Your god's church has been responsible for genocide

Which all makes you, by your own description, a sycophant toadying up to the greatest evil in the entire universe and proclaiming that you think all of the above are the kinds of behaviour one would expect from a loving father. No doubt more deadly diseases to render painful death to children would be a sign of even more love in your book.

Let me demonstrate to you the incredible level of gross hypocrisy your god possesses and I will do so with his own words:

"Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life (Genesis 3:14)"

Let me get this straight ... what the serpent did?
Who made the serpent?
Who put the serpent in the garden?
Who made the tree?
Who made two flawed humans?
Who, while claiming to be perfect, didn't know the outcome in advance or knew and didn't intervene?
And finally ...
Who demonstrated a total lack of compassion and forgiveness toward all?

And the correct answer is:
Your god.

But there is, of course, a simple solution. He could do unto himself what he has done so many times to others. And if he did I would gladly turn the other cheek.

PS: Philege: You have a bit of a problem here. Either:

1. Your lord is incapable of rebuking satan or me or anyone or anything else
or
2. Your lord is pleased as punch that we are pointing out that he is a genocidal maniac with an open affection for pain and blood.

Given that all of your prayers with respect to me go unanswered it seems the one being rebuked ... is you. Now there's something to think on while falling asleep tonight.


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Philege wrote:
"D. A. Morgan, you created these diseases with your filthy hatred of God."

Amazing how powerful I am. Powerful enough to create life. Powerful enough to pee up god's pantsleg. He may be able to flood the planet but he can't lay a finger on me. Damn I'm good.

If your god has compassion ... why didn't he let the snake keep his legs and give Adam and Eve a second chance? Got yah!


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Philege wrote:
"Blacknad and you other crusaders, how can you allow this man to mock your Lord and you say nothing, it is worse than giving the other cheek. Let us rebuke the works of the evil one."

Gosh this is fun. You and Osama bin Laden could really be great friends.

Both of you feel compelled to do for god what he is incapable of doing for himself. Once capable of drowning an entire planet for 40 days. Now incapable of giving me a sore finger.

Why don't you get on your knees tonight by the side of your bed, close your eyes, lift your head to heaven, and ask him why he is letting a one year old infant at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center die? I'll check over the weekend and see how compassionate he is.

Kid lives ... I'll apologize. Kid dies ... you apologize. Fair is fair.


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posted 09 February, 2006 18:22
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[Inappropriate content deleted]

Philege, if you can't keep a calm, rational outlook and actually discuss Science, I will have to bar you from the Forum. Your histrionics and cursing are not appropriate and I have edited three of your messages tonight. Please do heed my warning.

"Amaranth"
Hi Amaranth,

It seems that you still show unfairness. You may think that what I write is insulting but what about what Dan has written about our God. He is sacred to us. He can also give a rational decent argument without being so offensive and then ofcourse I would be happy to give my opinions, scientific or otherwise. But I think you also have to rein in D. A. Morgan when he crosses the line of decency in his filthy remarks.

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Calm yourself, Philege. For your own good.

"Amaranth"

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Why don't you get on your knees tonight by the side of your bed, close your eyes, lift your head to heaven, and ask him why he is letting a one year old infant at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center die? I'll check over the weekend and see how compassionate he is.

Give me the name of this child and the precise location, and I challenge you too! He will recover.

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Philege wrote:
"You may think that what I write is insulting but what about what Dan has written about our God."

I didn't insult your god ... I repeated is very own statements about himself directly from his autobiography. Did he or did he not claim to have created the universe and everything in it? Did he or did he not claim to be the cause of the flood of Noah? Did he or did he not claim to have killed every first born male in Egypt at the time of the Exodus? If the truth is insulting would you prefer your god be honored by lies?

Oh and check out the reaction of Moslems to Danish cartoons. Like I said ... you and bin Laden would likely make great friends.

Philege wrote:
"Yes, God created satan. But He created him perfect"

So your definition of perfection in creation is satan. Congratulations are in complete agreement. That which is perfect can not become otherwise ... because were it to do so, based on its original perfection ... it must have been the creator's plan. You just make this so much fun.

Philege wrote:
"God gave you like satan your master a free will to choose."

Thus my doing this is by god's design. Who are you to question how we use the gift? Who are you to question god's design? What impudence? What egotism? What sacriledge.

Philege wrote:
nothing in response to the statement by me:
"Your god created polio, anthrax, smallpox, malaria, and childhood leukemia"

Why? What is it about this simple statement of fact that sends you running to hide under the covers? It is the truth and you know it. You can not claim to have created the universe and deny creating smallpox can you.

My use of the lower-case 'g' rather than 'G' is by design and has nothing to do with your fantasy invisible purple rhinoceros. Face the questions with integrity if you can.

And if you wish to hide under the hypcrosy that the case of a 'g' or 'G' makes a difference and claim satan as a god, not God, then you are in violation of the tenants of your own faith. I thought lying was a sin.

Philege wrote:
"Why did God drown the entire world. Read the scriptures. Man had become so wicked that if you had been alive at that time you would have been raped and rendered eternally pigeon toed."

Oh I've read the scripture. In fact I've read the Latin Volgate in its original which I doubt you could even consider. But you are playing games and I'm going to call you on it.

Newborn children were drowned. Were they wicked? One year olds were drowned too. Were they wicked? Dogs, cats, birds, horses, all drowned. Were they wicked too? Was drowning them the ONLY solution or just the one that involved pain and suffering and thus was most appealing to your GOD?

Go ahead ... pray to your GOD ... pray him give me a papercut ... pray he turn me into a glowing cinder ... I challenge your GOD to do anything.

Drowned us because we were wicked ... sorry I'm not ready to let that go. Drowned everyone because they were wicked and sat on his furry butt during the holocaust, during the Turkish genocide, during the Cambodian genocide. What a bloody minded hypocrite you worship.

Philege wrote:
"Give me the name of this child and the precise location, and I challenge you too! He will recover."

If your GOD is truly GOD he can bloody well figure it out for himself. Let him figure out which specific child I am referring to or even better let him actually do something decent and cure them all. What a concept. Actually do something helpful rather than hurtful. Bring comfort to a dying child rather than pain. Like I said ... you pray your heart out. I'll be in The Hutch Sunday and will report back on your success or failure.


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"Blacknad and you other crusaders, how can you allow this man to mock your Lord and you say nothing, it is worse than giving the other cheek. Let us rebuke the works of the evil one."


Philege,

I have had a good constructive discussion with Dan and have learnt to respect him. I agree with many of his points, but not all. I have realised that it all depends upon your starting point - and everything flows from there. We have different paradigms and we therefore interpret information in different ways.

My faith in God is intact and very strong, I have experienced too much of the supernatural - before I came to Christ my life was screwed and I was heavily into witchcraft - I have seen things that leave me in no doubt that 'what we can see is not all there is'.

But I have also decided that SAGG was becoming a bit of an obsession and I need to spend more time engaging in life. So I will not spend so much time defending my beliefs and I am content to know that God is capable of looking after himself. So I just read and learn from SAGG now, there are some excellent current threads on the science board.

Christianity is attacked all over the net, do you want to have a full time occupation of posting in the myriad forums?

And I'm sorry to say that I find your method of defending God to be offensive. You descend to insult, threats and the ridiculous, (come on - how many times does Amaranth have to censor the contents of your posts?). Your challenge to pray for a cancer ridden child and your statement that he/she will be saved because God always answers your prayers sounds pretty much out of line with 'You shall not test the Lord your God'. To me you sound mentally unstable and need a little help connecting with reality. I am sorry to say that to you - but I think it's true.

I seem to remember that you have a failsafe method of winning the lottery - how did that go?

Your answer to Dan's eight statements simply show that you just don't understand what's at the core of his arguments. You need to think more deeply about what he says.

Your answer to number one is theologically incorrect and infers some things that we just cannot know.

And your threat to rot Dan's finger makes me think that you might sympathise with the Muslims's who threaten death to cartoonists.

Blacknad.

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Quote:
Originally posted by Philege:
I challenge you now! Dare me to pray to my God for your finger to rot on your hand and I will do so.
I know my prayers never go unanswered. So take up the gauntlet and I will definitely go down on my knees and pray for God to teach you a lesson once and for always. But be warned you may regret the final result.
As Moderator:
This thread is degenerating into threats by Philege against other members. If it does not cease I will take action. There is one thread to discuss god and this is not it.

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Blacknad:

I must confess to developing respect for you too.

But I do wish to juxtapose two statements you just made:

1. I have realised that it all depends upon your starting point - and everything flows from there.

2. " before I came to Christ my life was screwed and I was heavily into witchcraft"

This is remarkably true ... another point of agreement. I look at these two statements and what jumps out to me is that you went from one false god to another. From yin to yang. From starboard to port. Never once stopping the balance point in the center. Does this make sense?

And blacknad wrote:
"I am content to know that God is capable of looking after himself."

Another great point of agreement. What strikes me as the grossest of all hypocrisies is humans, be they philege or bin Laden running around defending the creator of the universe from the insignificant statements of a single person. If my free thinking is a threat capable of unravelling the work of a god then that god is a fraud.

What I see in philege's comments is what I see in so many at the cancer treatment centers. People who loudly advertise their faith as a way of covering up the fact that deep in their hearts they are a bundle of fear. It is far harder to hide it all, and ignore facing that reality, when you are not looking down the barrel a gun or an iv bag full of chem agents.

I am hoping that philege comes, as you have done, to be able to get past the rhetoric and engage the sentient conscious thought processes. Stop just reacting with canned sound-bites. Perhaps. We shall see.


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A reminder to all and sundry:

"Postings containing spam, those that are threatening or devoid of science will be deleted at the moderator's discretion."

If any more threats of ANY sort are made I will go to zero-tolerance mode and remove all such posts. persistence in threatening will result in loss of the privilege of posting here. You have the right to your own opinion, you do not have the right to make threats, mundane or supernatural. Period.

"Amaranth"

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posted February 10, 2006 08:15 PM
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"Blacknad and you other crusaders, how can you allow this man to mock your Lord and you say nothing, it is worse than giving the other cheek. Let us rebuke the works of the evil one."


Philege,

I have had a good constructive discussion with Dan and have learnt to respect him. I agree with many of his points, but not all. I have realised that it all depends upon your starting point - and everything flows from there. We have different paradigms and we therefore interpret information in different ways.

My faith in God is intact and very strong, I have experienced too much of the supernatural - before I came to Christ my life was screwed and I was heavily into witchcraft - I have seen things that leave me in no doubt that 'what we can see is not all there is'.

But I have also decided that SAGG was becoming a bit of an obsession and I need to spend more time engaging in life. So I will not spend so much time defending my beliefs and I am content to know that God is capable of looking after himself. So I just read and learn from SAGG now, there are some excellent current threads on the science board.

Christianity is attacked all over the net, do you want to have a full time occupation of posting in the myriad forums?

And I'm sorry to say that I find your method of defending God to be offensive. You descend to insult, threats and the ridiculous, (come on - how many times does Amaranth have to censor the contents of your posts?). Your challenge to pray for a cancer ridden child and your statement that he/she will be saved because God always answers your prayers sounds pretty much out of line with 'You shall not test the Lord your God'. To me you sound mentally unstable and need a little help connecting with reality. I am sorry to say that to you - but I think it's true.

I seem to remember that you have a failsafe method of winning the lottery - how did that go?

Your answer to Dan's eight statements simply show that you just don't understand what's at the core of his arguments. You need to think more deeply about what he says.

Your answer to number one is theologically incorrect and infers some things that we just cannot know.

And your threat to rot Dan's finger makes me think that you might sympathise with the Muslims's who threaten death to cartoonists.

Blacknad.

[ February 10, 2006, 08:18 PM: Message edited by: Blacknad ]

That's okay Blacknad, dance with the devil if you want. Thanks for saying I am mentally unstable, God bless you. I think a Christian who embrances homosexuality is mentally sick and unstable so don't take the speck out of my eye when you have more than a fat log in your eye As for Amaranth, you say I threatened Dan, however if you look closely at what he wrote, he dared me to ask God to make his finger bad, so I did not threaten him, I was prepared to prove him wrong.

As for D. A. Morgan
It seems your IQ has really begun to reverse, read what I said about the real cause of all the disease by the ruler of this earth before you claim I did not answer your questions. Frankly I don't care if Aramanth continues to unfairly give all that Dan writes freedom, but hen pecks
all that I write, the fact of the matter is anyone who defies my God will see my wrath in script. There is NO compromise and if you want to martyr me from your site then go ahead but I will not stand by like stupid Blacknad creeping up Dans poophole and allowing him to insult the Lord so openly. I dispise him for that. Get stuffed Blacknad.

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I seem to remember that you have a failsafe method of winning the lottery - how did that go?

Oh by the way, I have won six numbers in the daily lottery for seven days in a row. If you want me to post my number daily for you I will certainly do so, just to prove a point. I do not lie!

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Philege wrote:
"I think a Christian who embrances homosexuality is mentally sick and unstable"

Well Philege if you wish to adhere strictly to the bible then lets get to it. When do you plan to start stoning adulterers. Because if you don't you are just advertising religious hypocrisy ... only wanting to enforce that which you agree with. Another strong point of similarity between you, the Taliban, and bin Laden. You guys would be the best of buddies. And, of course, you could all hate me with equal gusto.

Philege wrote:
"... the fact of the matter is anyone who defies my God will see my wrath in script."

Your god? Do you have the receipt from the purchase. Because it seems the batteries need to be replaced.

Philege wrote:
"...if you want to martyr me...."

Yep just like bin Laden. You too are so similar it is amazing. To fear-mongers hiding behind their religion to promote hatred and hypocrisy.

We are not insulting your lord. We are saying your personal interpretation is painfully in violation of all reasonable interpretations of that religion in the same way that Moslem extremists redefine their religion into a farse. And if your god does exist he certainly can not be smiliing about someone violating his most sacred principles on his behalf. If he wants to be defended let him get off his furry butt and do it himself.

Winning at gambling ... certainly doing the lords work. Going to the Fred Hutch tomorrow morning. Pray harder hypocrite.


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Philege,

If anyone decides to insult God, it is their freedom to do so. I am not a self appointed guardian of the internet. I get angry at political correctness in its many forms and the thought policing that goes on today by the far left in Britain - (even though I'm left of centre, politically). I am not going to engage in trying to suppress people expressing themselves, by threats and taunts.

And as for sucking up to Dan - see it as you will, but his arguments carry some weight and he has caused me to examine what I believe more that anything else has - and his unbelief is not reactionary, it is deeply held and well thought out, but you have never engaged with him long enough to find out.

I have also never said I think that homosexuality is right. I do not, but you seem to have missed the point that Christ said he had come to fulfil the law. The law was based upon enmity and wrath. When the unfaithful woman was brought before Christ for stoning, what did he say? 'Only those without any wrong in them can stand in judgement of this woman's behaviour.' And then (with the implication that He had the right to stand in judgement), he forgave her, but told her to mend her ways.

The law showed us what things are like if we choose separation from God - Christ showed us what it is like to live under grace.

So I engage with gays as if there is no issue, but I'm prepared to be true to scripture and say I do not agree with their behaviour if I'm asked, just as I know that some aspects of my own behaviour aren?t right. I find it hateful that some Christians will go out of their way to offend, insult and damn someone based upon their sexual orientation or behaviour.

WHAT ABOUT LOVE?

Philege - "I despise him for that."

- Has your particular flavour of Christianity made you full of anger and judgement?

Philege ? ?Get stuffed Blacknad.?

- Again, is this where your Christianity brings you.

I challenge you to think about what Christ meant when he told us to love even our enemies. Christ DID judge and insult people, but surprisingly this behaviour was reserved exclusively for Religious leaders who oppressed their people. As a believer you have no grounds for dealing with anyone without tolerance and acceptance, whilst speaking what you perceive to be the truth (but humbly, knowing that it is your own fallible interpretation of matters that are deep and complex).

Regards,

Blacknad.

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Blacknad - I humbly apologise for my rude remarks, which were said out of foolish anger, the new day and your posting has made me realise that I am not serving the interests of christianity by my actions. Thanks to some influence from you, I sometime ago re examined myself spiritually and found some elements lacking. So I began once again to attend church regularly and confession as well as regularly reading the scriptures. Funny enough I was once like D. A. Morgan, I could not see anything right about the bible. It took God to make me see the way. Yes his postings may seem rational in some respects but admittedly some of them are down right blasphemous. What I really should do is pray for God to work His way into Morgan's life. You are quite right and again I apologise for my moments of foolishness.

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Winning at gambling ... certainly doing the lords work. Going to the Fred Hutch tomorrow morning. Pray harder hypocrite.

Playing the lottery which goes to a lot of good causes, and you don't know what I do with my winnings, maybe I donate them all to charity. If this would go one iota towards changing your attitude I would gladly stop gambling. The fact of the matter is we all sin in some form or another and no one person can stop doing wrong entirely. As for Fred Hutch, you refused to give a name for me, well I leave this in God's wonderful hands.

Your god? Do you have the receipt from the purchase. Because it seems the batteries need to be replaced.

My God because you compare my God to Bin Laden's
I do not own God, so what receipt are you writing about. Do not suppose that my God is Bin Laden's just because he claims so. My God introduced a law of love through His Son Jesus and I have never killed anyone. How can you compare me and my beliefs to someone like that. I now realise through Blacknad that it is a waste of time trying to convince someone like you to think differently. God in HIs own way, and on His own day will reveal himself to you, and like Paul you will do His work with vigour and power the opposite of your hateful thinking. I realise that reading your postings concerning God will start to influence me like they are influencing to Blacknad, therefore I will avoid reading them in future for they are inspired by the wicked one. Of this I have no doubt whatsoever. Goodbye servant of darkness!

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Philege wrote:
"My God because you compare my God to Bin Laden's"

Your GOD is bin Laden's. One and the same. The GOD of Abraham to you ... Ibrahim to bin Laden. Creator of the same Garden of Eden. Creator of the very same Adam to both of you. Creator of Satan to you, Iblis to him. Creator of the very same Jesus to you ... Isa to the Quranic writers. You are two peas from the same pod. You are believers in the exact same religion. The differences are as insignificant. Two dogs from the same litter.

Philege wrote:
"My God introduced a law of love through His Son Jesus"

Please correct me if I missed something here but isn't he the same GOD that inspired the following two passages?

"And the company shall stone them with stones, and dispatch them with their swords; they shall slay their sons and their daughters, and burn up their houses with fire."
Ezekiel 23:47

I can definitely feel the love. The love that brought us smallpox, polio, malaria, leukemia. I think we could all use a little less of that type of loving but thank you for trying to humanize the monster.

How about another test of your integrity? Read the following passage and tell me its source:
"Who forsaketh the religion of Abraham save him who befooleth himself?"

It is cited in the Hamas Charter (Article 27).

The religion of Abraham ... that's your religion.

Philege wrote:
"your postings concerning God will start to influence me like they are influencing to Blacknad, therefore I will avoid reading them in future for they are inspired by the wicked one."

Did you come here to SAGG to preach or to learn? To hide your head in the sands of ignorance rather than open your mind to new ideas? Seems to me you came to the wrong place.

So please do go confess your sins ... as you have many ... most obviously pride. I, on the other hand, wish to thank Kate and Rose and Rusty for cleaning the cage and making this possible.


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posted 12 February, 2006 09:19
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Philege wrote:
"My God because you compare my God to Bin Laden's"

Your GOD is bin Laden's. One and the same. The GOD of Abraham to you ... Ibrahim to bin Laden. Creator of the same Garden of Eden. Creator of the very same Adam to both of you. Creator of Satan to you, Iblis to him. Creator of the very same Jesus to you ... Isa to the Quranic writers. You are two peas from the same pod. You are believers in the exact same religion. The differences are as insignificant. Two dogs from the same litter.

If one reads the Koran one can see that there is something very different between it and the Bible. If you read the story of Joseph in the Koran, it tells you that the other women asked Pharoah's wife 'To swear by Allah' now we all know that the Egyptians at that time believed in Ra the Sun God and Isis etc, so one can see an obvious fabrication within the Koran. One can find many such inconsistencies with our scriptures that make me seriously doubt whether the God the claim to worship is one and the same as ours.

Also Mohammed cannot even be compared with Jesus, because he was a sinner and an ordinary man who married and for many years was a heathen. Funny enough the Moslems claim that Mohammed confirmed the Gospel was true and yet they despise we who uphold it. I would describe Islam as the Revelation description of "Looked like a lamb but spoke as a dragon." So Mr. Morgan Islam is not one dot or one iota the same as Christianity in my estimation at least. Sorry I can't confirm where your note comes from I don't have a photgraphic memory.

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