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#13050 - 03/15/06 04:29 AM Re: Proof that God did not create life
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
And you can't dispense with Wales at the turn of the century.

Real Christianity broke out and crime became almost non existent. Again, Judges barely had anything to do.

You may think Christianity can achieve nothing, but it achieved something for the lives of those people living in Wales during that period.

"When it comes to morality, atheists tend to be very quiet about what role atheism plays in shaping their personal morality. You won't find atheists saying that their atheism was influential in getting them off of drugs, stopping their alcoholism and ending their addictions to pornography, gambling, or any other personal moral fault. The fact is that atheism has no power at all to change personal morality (in a positive way)."

"From a societal viewpoint, atheists are generally not involved in helping the economically and socially disadvantaged. Of course, there are some exceptions, but in general atheists tend to be involved in legal/legislative issues, if any at all, to the exclusion of the needs of the poor and uneducated. The truth of this statement was never made more clear to me than last Christmas. A local church, the Dream Center, in downtown Los Angeles sponsored an outreach to the 500 neediest blocks in South Central Los Angeles. Ten thousand Christians volunteered to deliver food for families and toys for their children on December 23, 2000. I cannot be sure that there were no atheists at the event, but all of the 60+ people in our bus were Christians. Where were the atheists? Why should they be involved in helping the poor? There is no atheistic moral dictate that would require or even suggest that atheists should help anyone."

- from www.godandscience.org

Blacknad.

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#13051 - 03/15/06 01:07 PM Re: Proof that God did not create life
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
Blacknad wrote:
"Just commenting on the eery likeness of your offer of Prozac as a solution, to the use of Soma as the opiate of the masses"

The phrase "opiate of the masses" as I presume you know refers to religion.

Blacknad wrote:
"You may think Christianity can achieve nothing, but it achieved something for the lives of those people living in Wales during that period."

A period that lasted how long?
That ended because?
That exists nowhere else today. Why?

Blacknad wrote:
"The fact is that atheism has no power at all to change personal morality (in a positive way)."

And why should it? Christianity doesn't either. For every success story you can point out I'll show you a Slobodan Milosevic.

Blacknad wrote:
"From a societal viewpoint, atheists are generally not involved in helping the economically and socially disadvantaged."

Nonsense. Utter and complete nonsense.
Ignoring what I have personally done. A friend of mine just got back from Guatemala donating her time, and that of her two 20-year-old children, to work at a medical facility. They were involved in helping more than 1400 people receive surgery and dental care. Would you like a longer list? I'll put my list up against yours any day of the week.

People do not behave well or poorly because of their religion. Religion has had essentially no effect on behavior. We all do good and bad things every day. And then we justify them, or absolve ourselves of responsibility as we see fit. Your method is Christianity. Someone else's method is vodka. In the end nothing is different except that one involves claiming the Easter Bunny, the tooth fairy, and Santa Claus were involved and keeps lying to children.
_________________________
DA Morgan

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#13052 - 03/15/06 08:49 PM Re: Proof that God did not create life
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
I knew that would go down like a lead balloon.

I know a good many Christians, but a great deal more atheists. Virtually every Christian I know is involved in charitable works for the disadvantaged. I hardly know any of my secular friends who are. Most of them are too busy trying to earn as much dosh as they can to afford the latest plasma TV etc.

Maybe the people I know are unrepresentative - but I don't think so.

Your anecdotal evidence versus mine. The point is that it's a Christian duty to give to and serve the needy.

You can only damn religion because you don't get to see the innumerable good acts carried out quietly by Christians across the globe.

Blacknad.

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#13053 - 03/15/06 08:52 PM Re: Proof that God did not create life
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
"Religion has had essentially no effect on behavior."

- Is this just your opinion or do you have some basis for saying this? Maybe a peer reviewed journal somewhere ;-)

Regards,

Blacknad.

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#13054 - 03/15/06 08:54 PM Re: Proof that God did not create life
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
And with the ten commandments - you are right.

There is obviously an issue with them.

Need more time to look into it.

Luckily I'm signed off work with a severe chest infection, so I have some time on my hands.

Blacknad.

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#13055 - 03/15/06 09:20 PM Re: Proof that God did not create life
rlb60123 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 25
Dear all,
To make an argument either way to whether God exists or not you must take all things into account. Science doesn't take God into account because science doesn't ask the question "is there a God?" Science asks "how does existence work?" Religion on the other hand asks "is there a God and who is IT?" Is there existence, Yes. How does existence come about, UNKNOWN.
The Big Bang wasn't observed, did it happen?
To say that religion is irrelivant because of something science said is untrue. There are many theories in science that postulate the existance of a God.

I am under the inclination that to know whether there is a God or not you have to SEEK God. If you want to know science you have to SEEK science.

Seeking means having an open mind, just like scientists should have an open mind.

Does anyone comprehend the size of the universe.
Look in any quadrant of the sky with a telescope powerful enough and you will look 13 billionish years into the past. How long did it take for the universe to get to that size from a Big Bang? Knowing that what you see 13 Billion years ago is Galaxies that look no different than Andromeda only farther away. How long did it take for Andromeda to Form? 5-15 billion years.(big guess there) So Galactic systems 13 billion light years away showing structures that are similar to Andromeda put the age of the Universe somewhere beyond 13 billion years by 5-15 billion years. What does that have to do with whether God exists or not? NOT one thing.

Seek God to know if there is a God, because science can't answer questions that science doesn't ask.

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