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#12735 - 01/17/06 11:24 PM Re: Life - A question?
DA Morgan Offline
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Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
Rusty ... M stands for Membrane.

But take a careful look at what dvk wrote:

And I am the originator of Life and Universe.
Life doenst exist independently.
It exists in a hierarchy and I am the owner."

He appears to be psychotic. My referals to see a psychiatrist were not just to insult him. He truly seems to be in need of medical intervention.
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#12736 - 01/18/06 12:51 AM Re: Life - A question?
Rusty Rockets Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/04/05
Posts: 175
Thanks, DA, but I have to apologise for being a tad disingenuous when I asked my rhetorical M question. The nature of dkv?s m-theory thread led me to believe that he may be referring to some other known meaning of M; such as mysterious or, less kindly, magic and missing.

Or maybe I'm just being a p-brane!

What say you (in the appropriate forum, of course), dkv?

Anyway, we digress... on with: ?Life ? A question??

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#12737 - 01/19/06 03:16 PM Re: Life - A question?
Justine Offline
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Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 191
DKV: Do you mean the reason we have reality is simply as a framework for us as individual souls to communicate and learn from each other?
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~Justine~

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#12738 - 01/19/06 06:46 PM Re: Life - A question?
RM Offline
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Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 560
Loc: London
If he does, he is just another idiot trying, but failing miserably to justify existence.

DID YOU HEAR THAT DKV?! I SAID; QUACK QUACK QUACK!

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#12739 - 01/19/06 07:50 PM Re: Life - A question?
DA Morgan Offline
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Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
As you note above Rob and Blacknad ... Justine does not necessarily find coherent communications from dvk either.

He really does seem to genuinely need help. I hope he seeks it.
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DA Morgan

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#12740 - 01/19/06 09:10 PM Re: Life - A question?
Blacknad Offline
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Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
Life has been explained.It is existence of non-linearity.Had there been a fully communicable knowledge ,there would have been no need of you and me.

DKV,

Can your explain this? Line by line.

Blacknad.

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#12741 - 01/19/06 09:15 PM Re: Life - A question?
Blacknad Offline
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Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
Justine asked -
'Life is a continuum of awarness embodied by finite physical beings who contribute to learning and forgetting as a whole and are entirely interdependent upon each other for their individual feelings of suffering or happiness. Life is held together by particle points of unknown origin.

What do you guys think? Am I on the right track here as far as what we can observe life as?'

REP: No.


Regards,

Blacknad.

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#12742 - 01/20/06 06:36 PM Re: Life - A question?
Justine Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 191
"REP: No"

Very helpful. Thanks. You've really cleared things up for me.
_________________________
~Justine~

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#12743 - 01/26/06 11:01 AM Re: Life - A question?
RM Offline
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Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 560
Loc: London
Basically the whole thing is wrong

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#12744 - 01/26/06 07:10 PM Re: Life - A question?
Justine Offline
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Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 191
Life is a continuum of awareness.

What I mean by that is that people, animals, everything that is aware, lives and then dies. Not all at the same time. So there is always something alive. There is a continuum of awareness. My grandmother was alive and I spent time with her. Now she's dead but I learned from her experiences because she taught me things. Someday I will die. Yet my siblings and child or children will live for a while yet. This is what observable life as a whole is; things living and dying. I don't mean something was always alive...I mean since life originated on earth it has continued to live in one shape or another.

During life we learn some things and forget some things. Process of evolution. Some things are remembered and continue to live other things die and are forgoton in extinction. Or another way to look at it is our history books. Some things were remembered, some things were distorted or forgotton. Cuture and Language go through processes of evolution in a sense.

We are interdependent upon each other for suffering and happiness. In life we have families and friends...depending on how we treat one another we suffer or are happy. We vote for our President. If our President decides to go to war we cause suffering to the Iraqi people and American families who loose their son's. We are interdependent upon each other.

Upon scrutiny into matter. When divided down to it's elementary parts they are quarks which are particle points. Everything tangible is made of these quarks so when I say they hold life. I mean everything that is alive or was alive was made essentially of particle points.

That's an expansion of what I originally said. If it's completely wrong please expand on what's wrong and give me another explaination of what observable reality is.
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~Justine~

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#12745 - 01/26/06 11:25 PM Re: Life - A question?
Blacknad Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/05/05
Posts: 901
Loc: Coventry, England
Justine,

You are not doing anything other than stating the obvious. What significance is there in the following?

- "This is what observable life as a whole is; things living and dying." - not that this is actually a definitive statement of what observable life is.

- "I mean since life originated on earth it has continued to live in one shape or another."

- "Some things were remembered, some things were distorted or forgotton."

- "We are interdependent upon each other."

- "I mean everything that is alive or was alive was made essentially of particle points (quarks)."

I think you forgot leptons.

You can continue making statements like this but they don't seem to really tell us anything. You could say, 'we consume matter and some of it becomes a part of us and we pooh the rest out', or 'we have sex and sometimes babies are made'.

What are you trying to get at?

Blacknad.

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#12746 - 01/26/06 11:48 PM Re: Life - A question?
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
I am afraid most of what Justine is "saying" is coming from new-age books. I am trying to get her to close them and have an opinion of her own.

Justine wrote:
"Life is a continuum of awareness."

No it isn't Justine. This is another repackaging. Another misuse of the English language. There is no biologist that would accept this definition.

Life is not essential to the functioning of the universe. If this planet were a glowing cinder tomorrow ... the moon wouldn't move a millimeter from its present orbit. Again I challenge ... put down the new-age nonsense and use your own brain. What have you read from someone with an actual science degree from a real college or university? What research did you do in college? What periodicals or publications have you read with peer reviewed authors? What web sites with links containing content do you visit? Can you take those inputs and formulate an opinion of your own?
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DA Morgan

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#12747 - 01/27/06 12:10 AM Re: Life - A question?
RM Offline
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Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 560
Loc: London
Don't want to sound like someone who argues and disagrees for the hell of it but "life is not essential to the functioning of the universe" has not been proven.

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#12748 - 01/27/06 12:11 AM Re: Life - A question?
RM Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 560
Loc: London
In fact, life is a product of the functioning of the universe. So if there were no life it would mean that something had gone seriously wrong with the laws of physics.

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#12749 - 01/27/06 01:49 PM Re: Life - A question?
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
Actually Rob it has been. We have solid evidence that the universe existed long before life. And solid evidence our solar system existed long before there was life. When there was nothing except hydrogen, helium, and a trace of lithium, there were, by definition, no lifeforms.

Again I can't agree Rob. While life may be a natural product of the universe. The destruction of all life would not be its end.

I too am a natural consequence of the laws of physics. But I think we can all safely agree that some day I won't be here and you'll be in one heck of a lot of trouble if the laws of physics cease to exist.
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DA Morgan

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#12750 - 01/27/06 04:50 PM Re: Life - A question?
Justine Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/07/05
Posts: 191
I'm leaving...Sorry.

Not that there's anything wrong with you. You have your comfort zone in communicating and I have mine. Mine's different than yours. I hope we all find truth one day.

Just wanted to say goodbye.
_________________________
~Justine~

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#12751 - 01/27/06 06:07 PM Re: Life - A question?
RM Offline
Superstar

Registered: 10/07/05
Posts: 560
Loc: London
"The destruction of all life would not be its end."

Without getting into my theory that atoms are living organisms, I will disprove you...

I agree that if all living things were to be destrooyed the universe would not end. You said the functioning of the universe so I assumed you were implying that it operated like a sytem. If the universe does have a function, and sentient animals in planets transfer data about the universe through electro-magnetic waves to complete some kind of function then I will argue that life is essential to the 'functioning' of the universe. But if you meant functioning as in just doing what it does for no real purpose, just planets spinning about etc the obviously the destruction of all life wouldn't interfere with that.

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#12752 - 01/28/06 02:13 AM Re: Life - A question?
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
Apparently we are in agreement with the exception that you've thrown out something Justinesque in your first sentence. Meaning you redefined a word to mean something new.

Atoms are not by any definition of life alive.

Don't corrupt the language ... either find the right word or create one.
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DA Morgan

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#12753 - 01/28/06 05:09 AM Re: Life - A question?
jjw Offline
Superstar

Registered: 09/07/05
Posts: 636
Loc: USA
DA:
"Actually Rob it has been. We have solid evidence that the universe existed long before life. And solid evidence our solar system existed long before there was life. When there was nothing except hydrogen, helium, and a trace of lithium, there were, by definition, no lifeforms."

May we assume you mean "before there was life" on the earth. Our solar system was a relitaive new commer to this Galaxy. It couls have contained many life forms.
jjw

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#12754 - 01/28/06 09:45 PM Re: Life - A question?
DA Morgan Offline
Megastar

Registered: 10/17/04
Posts: 4136
Loc: Seattle, WA
My words were very carefully chosen.

Note my reference to hydrogen, helium, and a trace of lithium. These are the only elements that were created by the big bang and the only elements that would have been available for the formation of the first generation of stars and planet-sized bodies.

No carbon ... no life.

The first possible lifeforms could not have formed until those first-generation stars supernovaed releasing carbon and metals into the interstellar media.

Thus life, by definition, requires a time in the universe prior to its formation during which no life existed. Proving life is unessential for a functioning universe.

The argument could alternatively be stated this way. Smallpox is a consequence of natural processes but the universe does not require smallpox for its existence. Feel free to substitute Dodo birds, extinct dinosaurs, or at the rate we are going, Homo homo sapiens.
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DA Morgan

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